Buffalo Bore .45 ACP +P - Do I want to shoot these? - Page 2

Nick_C_S · September 6, 2013, 05:14 PM

^^ Me too. ^^

57K · September 6, 2013, 06:43 PM

This thread is starting to border on ignorance. Remington has sold a 185 gr. +P load since before there was a Golden Saber. The conventional 185 gr. JHP +P load carried the same spec as the current 185 gr. +P Golden Saber load that is factory rated at 1140 FPS from a 5" test barrel. Ramshot shows a Max. charge of Silhouette with a 185 gr. XTP producing 1152 FPS from a 5" barrel and it's below the 21,000 STANDARD pressure Max. In other words, the load is not even +P. If you want to shoot such a higher energy load continually, increase the factory recoil spring's weight by 2#. I use Ramshot's recommended Max. charge of Silhoutte with the 185 gr. Golden Saber rather than the 185 gr. XTP. Because it's brass jacket offer's less resistance in the bore, velocity and pressure decreases. Typically 50 FPS or more. My load with the 185 gr. Golden Saber over 9.9 grs. of Silhouette chrono's 1087 from my SR45 with a 4.5" barrel. It expands to a minimum of .75" while it penetrates deeper than a typical 230 gr. JHP factory load. If Ramshot can ahieve 1152 FPS with a 185 gr. XTP at Standard pressure, the only relevent argument is that the shooter can't handle the level of recoil. When it comes to protecting the life of your loved ones, or yourself, I believe it's wholly worthwhile to train to the point that you can put multiple rounds into a target as fast as you possibly can.

Because of internet use, people seem to have a tendency to offer opinions on subjects they really don't have a clue about. By and large many shooters today have little to no experience shooting rounds like the .41 or .44 Magnums from fixed barrel revolvers where some of us learned to handle their recoil early on. The .45 ACP's recoil is pretty tame by comparison. If you can't handle the recoil of a 185 gr. +P load in .45 ACP, you might want to consider a lighter recoiling round. There's nothing particularly difficult about the .45 ACP's recoil, up to and including +P.

Nick_C_S · September 6, 2013, 11:09 PM

Thank you 57K. You're information is always detailed and insightful. I started this post due to my ignorance

So it's good to get some definitive information. I'm taking my 45 and the BB 185+P's to the range in the next few days - chronograph in tow.

Sometimes with +P ammo, the manufacturer recommends only using in "modern firearms." I think my real concern is if BB considered my vintage 1984 Colt 1911 to be a "modern firearm."

Also 57K, I want to apologize if I came off abrupt in the other post. I think I over-dwelled on relatively insignificant point. Given your knowledge base, I look forward to seeing more of your insights in the future. Thanks again.

57K · September 7, 2013, 12:21 AM

Don't worry about it and I'm glad if I helped. Your 1984 Colt is mechanically sound while at the same time vintage, or classic, as are most firearms that were designed by the genius that was John Moses Browning.

dajowi · September 7, 2013, 09:24 AM

It's totally unnecessary to fire such high performance ammunition out of your .45. Everyone knows that the standard .45 FMJ loading has been blasting bad guys through plate glass windows since time immemorial

North Bender · September 7, 2013, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Because of internet use, people seem to have a tendency to offer opinions on subjects they really don't have a clue about. By and large many shooters today have little to no experience shooting rounds like the .41 or .44 Magnums from fixed barrel revolvers where some of us learned to handle their recoil early on. The .45 ACP's recoil is pretty tame by comparison. If you can't handle the recoil of a 185 gr. +P load in .45 ACP, you might want to consider a lighter recoiling round. There's nothing particularly difficult about the .45 ACP's recoil, up to and including +P.

And I'd add that some people think their opinions are the only correct ones!

Felt recoil is just that - what the shooter feels. It's a subjective measurement and very much individualistic. I have always been more comfortable shooting a .44 magnum (out of a fixed barrel revolver) than .45 acp from a 1911 frame.

meadams314 · September 7, 2013, 03:57 PM

Shot several of those exact rounds through my Sig Sauer STX. No problems.

Nick_C_S · September 7, 2013, 04:51 PM

Good to know meadams314.

I'm shooting them first thing tomorrow.

I'll report with a follow up post, complete with chrono data.

Hunter Customs · September 8, 2013, 08:20 AM

Quote:

You know Hunter Customs, I would think so too. But even my lightest load - 200g LSWC, 5.0g W231 - cycles fine. It doesn't exactly send the brass flying, but it cycles.

I bought the Wolff kit. You know. . . the one that has the full spectrum of springs in it. I'm using the heaviest one. ?? I'm not an expert (and would appreciate any insights), but my thought process is that you want the heaviest spring that still cycles your ammo without stovepipes, FTE's, etc. The 22Lb jobbiedoo does that.

No, you don't want the heaviest spring that will still cycle your ammo without stovepipes.

There's such a thing as forward battering, you are speeding up and adding to the process by running the heaviest spring you can.

Take a hard look at what parts stops the forward momentum in the feeding cycle.
For the loads you are shooting a 16.5 recoil spring should be plenty.

My old pin loads was much stouter then the loads you are shooting and my gun was sprung with a 15 lb recoil spring.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

Nick_C_S · September 8, 2013, 12:39 PM

Thanks Bob. Good info to know. I'll get a lighter spring in there. I haven't been shooting my .45 much at all this year. I chronographed some rounds a couple weeks ago (and just this morning - see next post), and that was the first time I shot it since January. Got other pots on the stove, so to speak.

Nick_C_S · September 8, 2013, 12:52 PM

Okay, I fired the Buffalo Bore 185g JHP +P rounds. Everybody can breathe a sigh of relief

- my vintage 1984 Colt 1911 held up just fine.

Buffalo Bore 185g JHP +P - 1152 FPS @ 4 yards.

Hand Load: 185g JHP 8.5g Power Pistol - 1073 FPS @ 4 yards.

I'm new to Power Pistol. It seems to be an excellent powder. It might be a touch flashy but it sure likes to make bullets go fast. I'll probably bump up that 8.5g a little - maybe to 8.8g, to get it to touch 1100 FPS. But I don't see any need to push it any further. 8.2g is the starting load in Speer #14 btw.

(I had similar excellent performance from Power Pistol with .357. 125g JHP; starting load Speer #14, 9.5g, yielded 1312 FPS through a 4" barrel; 1243 w/ 3". No signs of pressure problems whatsoever.)

10mm4ever · September 9, 2013, 10:13 AM

A few rounds wont hurt anything. If it's going to be a regular thing, install an EGW square firing pin stop.

September 6, 2013, 05:14 PM	#26
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	^^ Me too. ^^ __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

September 6, 2013, 11:09 PM	#28
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Thank you 57K. You're information is always detailed and insightful. I started this post due to my ignorance So it's good to get some definitive information. I'm taking my 45 and the BB 185+P's to the range in the next few days - chronograph in tow. Sometimes with +P ammo, the manufacturer recommends only using in "modern firearms." I think my real concern is if BB considered my vintage 1984 Colt 1911 to be a "modern firearm." Also 57K, I want to apologize if I came off abrupt in the other post. I think I over-dwelled on relatively insignificant point. Given your knowledge base, I look forward to seeing more of your insights in the future. Thanks again. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

September 7, 2013, 04:51 PM	#33
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Good to know meadams314. I'm shooting them first thing tomorrow. I'll report with a follow up post, complete with chrono data. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

September 8, 2013, 12:39 PM	#35
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Thanks Bob. Good info to know. I'll get a lighter spring in there. I haven't been shooting my .45 much at all this year. I chronographed some rounds a couple weeks ago (and just this morning - see next post), and that was the first time I shot it since January. Got other pots on the stove, so to speak. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

September 8, 2013, 12:52 PM	#36
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Fired the Buffalo Bore - Chrono data. . . Okay, I fired the Buffalo Bore 185g JHP +P rounds. Everybody can breathe a sigh of relief - my vintage 1984 Colt 1911 held up just fine. Buffalo Bore 185g JHP +P - 1152 FPS @ 4 yards. Hand Load: 185g JHP 8.5g Power Pistol - 1073 FPS @ 4 yards. I'm new to Power Pistol. It seems to be an excellent powder. It might be a touch flashy but it sure likes to make bullets go fast. I'll probably bump up that 8.5g a little - maybe to 8.8g, to get it to touch 1100 FPS. But I don't see any need to push it any further. 8.2g is the starting load in Speer #14 btw. (I had similar excellent performance from Power Pistol with .357. 125g JHP; starting load Speer #14, 9.5g, yielded 1312 FPS through a 4" barrel; 1243 w/ 3". No signs of pressure problems whatsoever.) __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

September 6, 2013, 06:43 PM	#27
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	This thread is starting to border on ignorance. Remington has sold a 185 gr. +P load since before there was a Golden Saber. The conventional 185 gr. JHP +P load carried the same spec as the current 185 gr. +P Golden Saber load that is factory rated at 1140 FPS from a 5" test barrel. Ramshot shows a Max. charge of Silhouette with a 185 gr. XTP producing 1152 FPS from a 5" barrel and it's below the 21,000 STANDARD pressure Max. In other words, the load is not even +P. If you want to shoot such a higher energy load continually, increase the factory recoil spring's weight by 2#. I use Ramshot's recommended Max. charge of Silhoutte with the 185 gr. Golden Saber rather than the 185 gr. XTP. Because it's brass jacket offer's less resistance in the bore, velocity and pressure decreases. Typically 50 FPS or more. My load with the 185 gr. Golden Saber over 9.9 grs. of Silhouette chrono's 1087 from my SR45 with a 4.5" barrel. It expands to a minimum of .75" while it penetrates deeper than a typical 230 gr. JHP factory load. If Ramshot can ahieve 1152 FPS with a 185 gr. XTP at Standard pressure, the only relevent argument is that the shooter can't handle the level of recoil. When it comes to protecting the life of your loved ones, or yourself, I believe it's wholly worthwhile to train to the point that you can put multiple rounds into a target as fast as you possibly can. Because of internet use, people seem to have a tendency to offer opinions on subjects they really don't have a clue about. By and large many shooters today have little to no experience shooting rounds like the .41 or .44 Magnums from fixed barrel revolvers where some of us learned to handle their recoil early on. The .45 ACP's recoil is pretty tame by comparison. If you can't handle the recoil of a 185 gr. +P load in .45 ACP, you might want to consider a lighter recoiling round. There's nothing particularly difficult about the .45 ACP's recoil, up to and including +P.

September 7, 2013, 12:21 AM	#29
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	Don't worry about it and I'm glad if I helped. Your 1984 Colt is mechanically sound while at the same time vintage, or classic, as are most firearms that were designed by the genius that was John Moses Browning.

September 7, 2013, 09:24 AM	#30
dajowi Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Posts: 1,196	It's totally unnecessary to fire such high performance ammunition out of your .45. Everyone knows that the standard .45 FMJ loading has been blasting bad guys through plate glass windows since time immemorial

September 7, 2013, 03:57 PM	#32
meadams314 Member Join Date: April 4, 2013 Posts: 26	Shot several of those exact rounds through my Sig Sauer STX. No problems.

September 9, 2013, 10:13 AM	#37
10mm4ever Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2005 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 808	A few rounds wont hurt anything. If it's going to be a regular thing, install an EGW square firing pin stop.