Fairly new reloader questions..

JackCA · January 12, 2009, 01:27 AM

Hi all, my first post here and I have a few questions.

First off, I have been loading 230gr 45 ACP and 124gr 9mm XTP's with HS-6. Being as it turns out my wife and I are shooting a lot now, I decided to try cast bullets and after some research ordered 1000 each of the Oregon Trail Laser Cast RN's in 200gr for the 45 and 115rg for the 9mm, as my wife seemed to prefer the lighter 9's.

After considerable perusing here I seem to notice that everyone talks of crimping with the cast bullets. is this required and if so, will the Lee factory crimp die suffice? I found that with jacketed rounds, using that die was not a good thing, so I have avoided it.

Also, what recomendations does anyone have for each load. We are mostly looking for accuracy, reasonable recoil and not gunking our barrels up terribly. I am open to new powders and have only used the HS-6 in both handguns so far, as it worked ok with the XTP's.

Here are the specifics:
Pistol: 9mm CZ75 P01
Bullet: Oregon Trails Laser Cast 115gr RN
Case: Starline
Primers: WSP
Powder: ???
Load: ??? (min/max/best)
OAL: ???

Pistol: .45 Sig P220 Combat
Bullet: Oregon Trails Laser Cast 200gr RN
Case: Starline
Primers: WLP
Powder: ???
Load: ??? (min/max/best)
OAL: ???

Also, is trimming / chamfering / deburring new brass required, or are the brass manufacturing processes good enough to not worry about it?

Sevens · January 12, 2009, 08:58 AM

Mornin' Jack.

I would not worry one bit about trimming or chamfering new brass in these calibers. Matter of fact, I wouldn't buy new brass in these very plentiful calibers. Pick up some once-fired lots in 500 or a thousand and you'll save a heap of money.

Also in these two calibers, crimping is really just taper crimping, and it's different than crimping in a revolver round. Semi-auto calibers headspace on the case mouth, so taper crimping is pretty much just part of the process to remove the belling of the case mouth from from the reloading process. Crimping on semi-auto rounds is NOT meant to "hold" the bullet in place... the neck tension of the brass itself does that work, and that neck tension is set when you resize the brass.

Some folks have found that the Lee Factory Crimp Die in handgun calibers can help to post-size the loaded round, but even more of us have never tried one, never found the need to try one, and don't particularly care for the idea of a die that post-sizes a loaded round when our loaded rounds work properly on their own.

Most regular 3-die carbide die sets will crimp with the bullet seating die. If it's .38/.357 or .41 or .44 Mag or .45 Colt, it'll give you a firm roll crimp as you adjust the depth of the die body itself. If it's .380, 9mm, 10/.40 or .45, that bullet seater die gives the round a nice taper crimp.

If there's any real difference to the actual process of loading the rounds between the jacketed bullets you are familiar with and the cast lead rounds you haven't yet tried, it will be that you might have to bell or flare the case mouth just a TOUCH more to allow the slightly larger lead bullet to enter the case without shaving lead. Be careful not to do too much flaring.

Good luck.

JackCA · January 12, 2009, 05:02 PM

Thanks for the help!

Don P · January 12, 2009, 09:25 PM

I personaly use the Lee Factory Crimp Die. It works well and it will give you a solid crimp. As far as powdersgo I have switched from Unique to Titegroup. Unique burns really dirty and you use more of it compared to Titegroup. Whatever you do do substitute one powder data for another. Happy loading

January 12, 2009, 01:27 AM	#1
JackCA Junior Member Join Date: January 12, 2009 Posts: 10	Fairly new reloader questions.. Hi all, my first post here and I have a few questions. First off, I have been loading 230gr 45 ACP and 124gr 9mm XTP's with HS-6. Being as it turns out my wife and I are shooting a lot now, I decided to try cast bullets and after some research ordered 1000 each of the Oregon Trail Laser Cast RN's in 200gr for the 45 and 115rg for the 9mm, as my wife seemed to prefer the lighter 9's. After considerable perusing here I seem to notice that everyone talks of crimping with the cast bullets. is this required and if so, will the Lee factory crimp die suffice? I found that with jacketed rounds, using that die was not a good thing, so I have avoided it. Also, what recomendations does anyone have for each load. We are mostly looking for accuracy, reasonable recoil and not gunking our barrels up terribly. I am open to new powders and have only used the HS-6 in both handguns so far, as it worked ok with the XTP's. Here are the specifics: Pistol: 9mm CZ75 P01 Bullet: Oregon Trails Laser Cast 115gr RN Case: Starline Primers: WSP Powder: ??? Load: ??? (min/max/best) OAL: ??? Pistol: .45 Sig P220 Combat Bullet: Oregon Trails Laser Cast 200gr RN Case: Starline Primers: WLP Powder: ??? Load: ??? (min/max/best) OAL: ??? Also, is trimming / chamfering / deburring new brass required, or are the brass manufacturing processes good enough to not worry about it? Last edited by JackCA; January 12, 2009 at 02:39 AM.

January 12, 2009, 08:58 AM	#2
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Mornin' Jack. I would not worry one bit about trimming or chamfering new brass in these calibers. Matter of fact, I wouldn't buy new brass in these very plentiful calibers. Pick up some once-fired lots in 500 or a thousand and you'll save a heap of money. Also in these two calibers, crimping is really just taper crimping, and it's different than crimping in a revolver round. Semi-auto calibers headspace on the case mouth, so taper crimping is pretty much just part of the process to remove the belling of the case mouth from from the reloading process. Crimping on semi-auto rounds is NOT meant to "hold" the bullet in place... the neck tension of the brass itself does that work, and that neck tension is set when you resize the brass. Some folks have found that the Lee Factory Crimp Die in handgun calibers can help to post-size the loaded round, but even more of us have never tried one, never found the need to try one, and don't particularly care for the idea of a die that post-sizes a loaded round when our loaded rounds work properly on their own. Most regular 3-die carbide die sets will crimp with the bullet seating die. If it's .38/.357 or .41 or .44 Mag or .45 Colt, it'll give you a firm roll crimp as you adjust the depth of the die body itself. If it's .380, 9mm, 10/.40 or .45, that bullet seater die gives the round a nice taper crimp. If there's any real difference to the actual process of loading the rounds between the jacketed bullets you are familiar with and the cast lead rounds you haven't yet tried, it will be that you might have to bell or flare the case mouth just a TOUCH more to allow the slightly larger lead bullet to enter the case without shaving lead. Be careful not to do too much flaring. Good luck. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 12, 2009, 09:25 PM	#4
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	I personaly use the Lee Factory Crimp Die. It works well and it will give you a solid crimp. As far as powdersgo I have switched from Unique to Titegroup. Unique burns really dirty and you use more of it compared to Titegroup. Whatever you do do substitute one powder data for another. Happy loading __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

January 12, 2009, 05:02 PM	#3
JackCA Junior Member Join Date: January 12, 2009 Posts: 10	Thanks for the help!