CCW a cap & ball? - Page 2

jimbob86 · January 3, 2013, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Trust me, a pair of Colts or even one will still kill as well as they did back in the day. We are no more bullet proof than back then!

We are not any more bullet proof, but we are harder to kill- we weigh considerably more now, and have much better medical care.

a .36 roundball weighs what? 95grains? At 7-800 f/sec? 1000, even? and you have five shots?

You empty that into a big determined individual and you might kill him .... after he beats you to death with your "gun".

prm · January 4, 2013, 06:37 AM

LOL - If a person has enough body fat to stop a .36 round ball - getting beat to death by them is my last worry. I don't see the round that much different in terms of capability than a .32 or .380. Both, very popular carry calibers in the small semi-autos with a number of folks advocating FMJ for penetration and reliability. I see more than a few owners pocket carrying them with only one magazine, so any round count advantage is significantly negated. If your a part of the crowd that just has to have something that begins with a 4... You got the Remington New Model Army or the Colt 1860 as another option.

I will agree that medical care is better today than in past eras, and if a person makes it to the ER they got a better chance. That's a post shooting endeavor.

I've seen a number of these discussions on some of the other forums. Pretty much across the board, the more experience a person has with these weapons, the more comfortable they are with them.

WildBill45 · January 4, 2013, 09:47 AM

Quote:

The pre-ban elephant ivory grips were my upgrade.

I found a half-tusk of elephant ivory in Zimbabwe, but, they said I could not have it!!!

Party poopers!!!

Love the Colts! If you have no children to pass them on to ... please note my name!!!

Old Grump · January 5, 2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

We are not any more bullet proof, but we are harder to kill- we weigh considerably more now, and have much better medical care.

a .36 roundball weighs what? 95grains? At 7-800 f/sec? 1000, even? and you have five shots?

You empty that into a big determined individual and you might kill him .... after he beats you to death with your "gun".

Is true, we weigh more but a hundred years ago more people were walking to work splitting wood and spending more house with a hoe or shovel in their callused hands instead of keyboards and forklift controls.

Big determined guy might beat you to death with 7 rounds of 230 gr hardball from a 45 or he might die with a single 40 gr LRN 22LR stuck thorough the middle of his forehead. Only problem with a firm and fast rule are all the exceptions to the rule. .36-caliber with a full charge pushes an 80-grain ball at 1,000 feet per second, that is gonna hurt.

jimbob86 · January 5, 2013, 02:28 PM

I have to wonder how well a pure lead .36 round ball will penetrate.....

ZVP · January 7, 2013, 12:24 PM

CCWing a BP Revolver kinda defeats the purpose!
They already DON'T know that you own it (No registration) so WHY would you want to tip em off that you had an unregistered gun???
SUre a Navy or Army would take care of Business! People are just as mushy as they were back in the 1850's and they kill just as easy!
JMHO
ZVP

brazosdave · January 7, 2013, 01:03 PM

I wouldn't even hesitate to use my little .31 pocket revolver. It's reliable, and 5 shots will definitely persuade someone not to screw with you. This was the first pistol carried by police in the U.S., Baltimore, Md pd.

10851Man · January 7, 2013, 07:05 PM

Interesting thread...

I am a retired police chief and I have a CCW, but a C&B would never be approved for legitimate carry.

I like the old C&B pistols and have carried on during hiking trips and keep one in the trunk of the car when I travel.

Size doesn't really bother me, as I find the 5-1/2" .44 comfortable and even manageable.

Which would potentially make a better carry pistol????

The .36 caliber Colt Navy or the 1860 Colt Army????

Why would you choose or not choose either one???

Thanks for your input...

mykeal · January 7, 2013, 10:04 PM

Quote:

CCWing a BP Revolver kinda defeats the purpose!
They already DON'T know that you own it (No registration) so WHY would you want to tip em off that you had an unregistered gun???

???

A CCW, or CPL, permit doesn't specify the gun's design, model number or serial number. How would carrying a bp revolver concealed result in 'tipping them off that you had an unregistered gun'? Unless, of course, you used it, in which case it wouldn't matter if it had been carried open or concealed.

10851Man · January 8, 2013, 09:45 AM

@ Mykeal,

Here in California, at least in the counties where I was employed, you may only carry a pistol that is registered by serial # and appears on your license...FWIW

deerslayer303 · January 8, 2013, 10:51 AM

I would absolutely carry one. Open carry but I don't know about concealing the thing, maybe a winter time CCW. I don't doubt the killing power of a round ball one bit. I've taken down a many a deer with buck shot which is nothing more than a .33 cal lead round ball. And I can't tell you how many times just ONE pellet in the bread basket did the job!! But I would probably practice with conicals and have them loaded up when carrying one.

Vireye · January 8, 2013, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Quote (Vireye)
:
Obviously it died down and disappeared, but with the current state of things, I'd be worried that if you were ever seen with it, or, God forbid, forced to use it, it would open the floodgates for more regulations regarding our beloved black powder firearms.

Quote: (Old Grump)
Are you saying if it was all you had and you needed to shoot to defend yourself you would not shoot in order to keep the reputation of black powder guns unsullied?

Remember all the wars we were in before the French developed smokeless powder, remember Wild Bill Hickock and his little 36 caliber. I think it's pretty well established that cap and ball revolvers are deadly.

I'm not sure where you're getting that I said they weren't deadly or that it's ineffective, or to keep any kind of reputation "unsullied"...not of that is said anywhere in my post. The reason for my original post is that someone was killed using a black powder revolver.

What I'm saying is that using a firearm that does not need to be registered could, and likely would, result in the anti-gun lobby either calling for their ban, or it becoming necessary to register them as is the law for all other handguns. Part of the allure of the black powder revolvers is low cost, ease of acquisition, and the flat-out fun of them. Alot of that would be diminished when it becomes just like buying any other weapon.

Old Grump · January 8, 2013, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Obviously it died down and disappeared, but with the current state of things, I'd be worried that if you were ever seen with it, or, God forbid, forced to use it, it would open the floodgates for more regulations regarding our beloved black powder firearms.

Me and my speed reading, I missed the salient point in this line but not to worry, my remark was tongue in cheek and not meant in a derogatory way. It was more of a comment on what I have been hearing and used to believe myself that it was an obsolete and therefore must be unreliable and ineffective. I got over it.

Vireye · January 8, 2013, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Me and my speed reading, I missed the salient point in this line but not to worry, my remark was tongue in cheek and not meant in a derogatory way. It was more of a comment on what I have been hearing and used to believe myself that it was an obsolete and therefore must be unreliable and ineffective. I got over it.

ahhh yeah, I must've misinterpreted the tone..

All good then

North East Redneck · January 8, 2013, 08:23 PM

Not sure about concealed on my person. But as a truck/boat gun, certainly would carry and use one for SD. My choices would be the 1858 and ROA. Loaded with 30-35 gr FFFG and either round ball for the '58 or cast conicals in the ROA. Lubed wad between powder and projectile. I'm a decent shot with most any SA. As long as the gun is clean and a proven shooter, why not? As far as needing more rounds, the J frame is always close.
But yes, I would feel ok with only a C&B revolver. Should work for the majority of situations.

Hardcase · January 9, 2013, 01:33 PM

If it was all that I had, that's what I would carry. And, while a single action revolver may have been good enough for self defense on the frontier, I can't help but think that those old boys would have been happy as clams to pack around a reliable, auto-loading cartridge gun, same as I do.

But as the philosopher says, the one you got is better than the one you ain't.

10851Man · January 9, 2013, 02:45 PM

I worked 20 years in law enforcement and have, at one time or another, carried a Colt Commando .38, Beretta 92, Glock .40 and for the past 11 years, a genuine 1927, 4-digit serial Colt Hartford Argentine .45 Auto that I custom built.

I like the old cap & ball revolvers and keep one in the car almost all the time. I have been in situations where I had two suspects at gunpoint with a 5 shot 38 and I never felt outgunned.

Most shootings are over in a few seconds with one or two rounds fired. The 1986 Miami FBI incident and North Hollywood robbery are exceptions and you probably couldn't carry enough ammo, or guns, for either of those situations.

I often put a 1860 Colt Sheriff's in my belt while walking to the ATM...FWIW

Logan5579 · January 9, 2013, 04:18 PM

Hi guys, first post here...
CCW with a cap and ball? Sure I've done it before, not as much recently as I used to. I carry at work so I stick to the 1911 auto loader there, but when I'm out on my own time, sometimes I'll pack the 5.5in 1858 Remington 44 cal, (shorty). Every gun has its advantages and limitations and as long as you're aware of what those are, you can work within whatever boundaries that are set by those advantages and limitations.

Percussion revolvers can be loaded to pack a nice punch, but you're slow on reloads...or limited to however many spare cylinders you can fit in your pocket. BP guns tend to be a little harder to conceal than a 45 auto, I need a button up flannel shirt or coat to be able to cover the weapon so that it doesn't print. That limits me to cooler weather if I decide I want to carry the Remington. The law doesn't tell me what gun I must carry, or that I can't carry a C&B gun. I know some ppl who carry a 25 auto...go figure, I'd just as soon throw rocks if all I had was a 25.

deerslayer303 · January 9, 2013, 07:01 PM

Welcome Logan!

Logan5579 · January 10, 2013, 08:25 AM

Thanks! Glad to be here and looking forward to getting to know you guys and learning more about the BP world.

godot · January 11, 2013, 12:34 AM

I've never understood why people in the UK didn't explore this option more. As I understand it they can still have cap & ball revolvers are still legal so why not?

BirchOrr · January 11, 2013, 08:59 AM

If they are legal in the UK, I'd be packin one!

Birch

mykeal · January 11, 2013, 08:59 AM

UK ownership of bp handguns is legal but highly restricted, can only be used at clubs and carry only allowed in case between home and club.

godot · January 11, 2013, 04:14 PM

mykeal, I don't want to argue with you about this, in part because I'm really not sure. In my experience the people in the UK are a lot less vocal about their legal situation. If you visit the British Blade Forum you'll see one thread with hundreds of questions like "can I carry this?" and the answer is almost always no. There does seem to be some provisions for having cap & ball guns. I've seen them online (at a much higher price then they'd sell here for). As to what kind of hoops you have to jump through to get one, I'm clueless.

BCarp · January 18, 2013, 12:25 PM

You're not limited to round balls in your C&P revolvers. Heavier conicals are available for both .36 and .44 cal pistols. The .36 cal version is a 125 grain bullet:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...oducts_id=3629

January 4, 2013, 06:37 AM	#27
prm Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2008 Posts: 102	LOL - If a person has enough body fat to stop a .36 round ball - getting beat to death by them is my last worry. I don't see the round that much different in terms of capability than a .32 or .380. Both, very popular carry calibers in the small semi-autos with a number of folks advocating FMJ for penetration and reliability. I see more than a few owners pocket carrying them with only one magazine, so any round count advantage is significantly negated. If your a part of the crowd that just has to have something that begins with a 4... You got the Remington New Model Army or the Colt 1860 as another option. I will agree that medical care is better today than in past eras, and if a person makes it to the ER they got a better chance. That's a post shooting endeavor. I've seen a number of these discussions on some of the other forums. Pretty much across the board, the more experience a person has with these weapons, the more comfortable they are with them. Last edited by prm; January 4, 2013 at 06:46 AM.

January 7, 2013, 01:03 PM	#32
brazosdave Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2012 Location: Crockett, Texas Posts: 363	I wouldn't even hesitate to use my little .31 pocket revolver. It's reliable, and 5 shots will definitely persuade someone not to screw with you. This was the first pistol carried by police in the U.S., Baltimore, Md pd. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry, it's just my game"

January 8, 2013, 10:51 AM	#36
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	I would absolutely carry one. Open carry but I don't know about concealing the thing, maybe a winter time CCW. I don't doubt the killing power of a round ball one bit. I've taken down a many a deer with buck shot which is nothing more than a .33 cal lead round ball. And I can't tell you how many times just ONE pellet in the bread basket did the job!! But I would probably practice with conicals and have them loaded up when carrying one. __________________ "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

January 8, 2013, 08:23 PM	#40
North East Redneck Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2012 Location: Berkshire Hills Posts: 741	Not sure about concealed on my person. But as a truck/boat gun, certainly would carry and use one for SD. My choices would be the 1858 and ROA. Loaded with 30-35 gr FFFG and either round ball for the '58 or cast conicals in the ROA. Lubed wad between powder and projectile. I'm a decent shot with most any SA. As long as the gun is clean and a proven shooter, why not? As far as needing more rounds, the J frame is always close. But yes, I would feel ok with only a C&B revolver. Should work for the majority of situations. __________________ NRA Patron Member SAF Life Member GOAL Member

January 9, 2013, 01:33 PM	#41
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	If it was all that I had, that's what I would carry. And, while a single action revolver may have been good enough for self defense on the frontier, I can't help but think that those old boys would have been happy as clams to pack around a reliable, auto-loading cartridge gun, same as I do. But as the philosopher says, the one you got is better than the one you ain't. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

January 5, 2013, 02:28 PM	#30
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	I have to wonder how well a pure lead .36 round ball will penetrate.....

January 7, 2013, 12:24 PM	#31
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	CCWing a BP Revolver kinda defeats the purpose! They already DON'T know that you own it (No registration) so WHY would you want to tip em off that you had an unregistered gun??? SUre a Navy or Army would take care of Business! People are just as mushy as they were back in the 1850's and they kill just as easy! JMHO ZVP

January 7, 2013, 07:05 PM	#33
10851Man Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: High Desert Mountains CA. Posts: 410	Interesting thread... I am a retired police chief and I have a CCW, but a C&B would never be approved for legitimate carry. I like the old C&B pistols and have carried on during hiking trips and keep one in the trunk of the car when I travel. Size doesn't really bother me, as I find the 5-1/2" .44 comfortable and even manageable. Which would potentially make a better carry pistol???? The .36 caliber Colt Navy or the 1860 Colt Army???? Why would you choose or not choose either one??? Thanks for your input...

January 8, 2013, 09:45 AM	#35
10851Man Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: High Desert Mountains CA. Posts: 410	@ Mykeal, Here in California, at least in the counties where I was employed, you may only carry a pistol that is registered by serial # and appears on your license...FWIW

January 9, 2013, 02:45 PM	#42
10851Man Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: High Desert Mountains CA. Posts: 410	I worked 20 years in law enforcement and have, at one time or another, carried a Colt Commando .38, Beretta 92, Glock .40 and for the past 11 years, a genuine 1927, 4-digit serial Colt Hartford Argentine .45 Auto that I custom built. I like the old cap & ball revolvers and keep one in the car almost all the time. I have been in situations where I had two suspects at gunpoint with a 5 shot 38 and I never felt outgunned. Most shootings are over in a few seconds with one or two rounds fired. The 1986 Miami FBI incident and North Hollywood robbery are exceptions and you probably couldn't carry enough ammo, or guns, for either of those situations. I often put a 1860 Colt Sheriff's in my belt while walking to the ATM...FWIW

January 9, 2013, 04:18 PM	#43
Logan5579 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2013 Location: Tennessee Posts: 102	Hi guys, first post here... CCW with a cap and ball? Sure I've done it before, not as much recently as I used to. I carry at work so I stick to the 1911 auto loader there, but when I'm out on my own time, sometimes I'll pack the 5.5in 1858 Remington 44 cal, (shorty). Every gun has its advantages and limitations and as long as you're aware of what those are, you can work within whatever boundaries that are set by those advantages and limitations. Percussion revolvers can be loaded to pack a nice punch, but you're slow on reloads...or limited to however many spare cylinders you can fit in your pocket. BP guns tend to be a little harder to conceal than a 45 auto, I need a button up flannel shirt or coat to be able to cover the weapon so that it doesn't print. That limits me to cooler weather if I decide I want to carry the Remington. The law doesn't tell me what gun I must carry, or that I can't carry a C&B gun. I know some ppl who carry a 25 auto...go figure, I'd just as soon throw rocks if all I had was a 25. __________________ Beware the man with one gun, he knows how to use it

January 9, 2013, 07:01 PM	#44
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	Welcome Logan! __________________ "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

January 10, 2013, 08:25 AM	#45
Logan5579 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2013 Location: Tennessee Posts: 102	Thanks! Glad to be here and looking forward to getting to know you guys and learning more about the BP world. __________________ Beware the man with one gun, he knows how to use it

January 11, 2013, 12:34 AM	#46
godot Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2004 Posts: 105	I've never understood why people in the UK didn't explore this option more. As I understand it they can still have cap & ball revolvers are still legal so why not?

January 11, 2013, 08:59 AM	#47
BirchOrr Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Eaton Rapids, MI Posts: 445	Why Not? If they are legal in the UK, I'd be packin one! Birch __________________ Black Powder: Not because it is easy, but because it is hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win...

January 11, 2013, 08:59 AM	#48
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	UK ownership of bp handguns is legal but highly restricted, can only be used at clubs and carry only allowed in case between home and club.

January 11, 2013, 04:14 PM	#49
godot Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2004 Posts: 105	mykeal, I don't want to argue with you about this, in part because I'm really not sure. In my experience the people in the UK are a lot less vocal about their legal situation. If you visit the British Blade Forum you'll see one thread with hundreds of questions like "can I carry this?" and the answer is almost always no. There does seem to be some provisions for having cap & ball guns. I've seen them online (at a much higher price then they'd sell here for). As to what kind of hoops you have to jump through to get one, I'm clueless.

January 18, 2013, 12:25 PM	#50
BCarp Member Join Date: April 22, 2010 Location: Port Crane, NY Posts: 31	You're not limited to round balls in your C&P revolvers. Heavier conicals are available for both .36 and .44 cal pistols. The .36 cal version is a 125 grain bullet: http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...oducts_id=3629 __________________ Brian Carp "Powder, patch, ball!"

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