January 17, 2011, 06:01 PM | #1 |
Member
Join Date: March 23, 2010
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 30
|
The new 28ga. Judge
So it was announced at shot show today that a 28ga. Judge will be available soon. I am posting it here for two reasons,
1. How is this legal and not a sbs? 2. Would it be possible or should I say legal to make a 12ga. pistol without making a sbs? Please correct me if I am wrong but I understand the laws to state that a pistol cannot have a dia. over .50” and must have a rifled barrel. If the barrel is unrifled then it is classified as a shotgun. Please help as I am very confused.
__________________
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -Thomas Jefferson |
January 17, 2011, 06:06 PM | #2 |
Junior member
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
|
if it has a rifled barrel, it is not a SBS, it is a handgun - how it will be allowed to be imported without handgun ammo is another question
|
January 17, 2011, 06:46 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 15, 2006
Location: Pueblo, Colorado
Posts: 2,664
|
my guess is they got an exemption similar to big game rifles over .50
__________________
I don't collect guns, I accumulate them. |
January 17, 2011, 07:28 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,172
|
Well, 28 gauge equates to a .550" bore, which, assuming the "Judge" is rifled, is going to make it a "destructive device" according to ATF definition.
|
January 18, 2011, 12:25 AM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 20, 2008
Posts: 442
|
Yeah, I can't figure it out either. They're not getting those into the country en masse, though.
|
January 18, 2011, 12:51 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 16, 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,113
|
It can't be an SBS, as it's likely never had a shoulder stock attached.
I'm thinking there's two main possibilities. It could possibly an AOW, and they are hoping the $5 transfer helps with the sting of NFA silliness, or somehow they swung a sporting purposes exemption. |
January 18, 2011, 03:01 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 23, 1999
Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska
Posts: 704
|
I'm thinking there's two main possibilities. It could possibly an AOW, and they are hoping the $5 transfer helps with the sting of NFA silliness, or somehow they swung a sporting purposes exemption.
Can't be that imported NFA firearms are Law Enf/Govment Agency only. |
January 18, 2011, 08:59 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 16, 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,113
|
I know Taurus imports some of their revolvers with longer barrels to get past the point system and then chops them once they get off the dock.
It might be possible for the 28 gauge to have a more importable configuration, and then be reconfigured stateside. |
January 18, 2011, 01:09 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 20, 2008
Posts: 442
|
...which would still make it NFA as an AOW. They'd have to put a 21" barrel on it (mostly liner after the shroud) and then chop nearly all of it off to make it a pistol.
Are we SURE CTD isn't just making things up again? |
January 18, 2011, 04:43 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 23, 1999
Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska
Posts: 704
|
My guess is that they squeezed the bore down to .499
|
January 18, 2011, 06:13 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 15, 2006
Location: Pueblo, Colorado
Posts: 2,664
|
OR they got an exemption from the ATF. there are rifles with bores over .50 that have been granted exemptions and can be bought and sold just like anything else.
__________________
I don't collect guns, I accumulate them. |
January 18, 2011, 10:36 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 14, 2004
Location: MN
Posts: 136
|
Judge
Found a picture of the 28Ga
__________________
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves Abraham Lincoln |
January 19, 2011, 06:51 PM | #13 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: December 7, 2005
Location: East Central Missouri
Posts: 4
|
Quote:
Smoothbore pistols are AOW's, regardless of bore; rifled pistols with a bore over .5" are DD's I'm really curious about this. |
|
January 19, 2011, 11:28 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2010
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 853
|
.410/.45 and 29 gauge
Hey all,
There is something to remember. The .410/.45 is more a coincidence than a design. People have been chambering .410 in .454, etc. before the Taurus Judge. The 28 gauge shotgun, as you mentioned, is bigger than .50 caliber. However, that is solely the nominal diameter of the barrel in a shotgun, and not the actual size of the wad/projectiles coming out of the shell. The diameter of a 28 gauge wad may very well be within the .50 cal limit, and that plastic shell could easily measure .025 inches on the "case wall" for an additional .05 inches in diameter. Chamber diameter is unrestricted, as far as I know. |
January 19, 2011, 11:36 PM | #15 |
Junior member
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
|
My thoughts:
IF
...... you are going to waste $400 bucks on this.... thing...... why not waste another $200, and do the paperwork, so it would actually..... you know ..... WORK?!?!?!?! The rifling that makes it "legal" also makes the shot pattern lousy: shot hits everything but what you actually point the damn thing at! |
January 23, 2011, 02:54 AM | #16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,172
|
Quote:
|
|
January 23, 2011, 02:30 PM | #17 | |
Junior member
Join Date: October 9, 2004
Location: Northeast Alabama
Posts: 2,580
|
Quote:
|
|
January 23, 2011, 03:59 PM | #18 |
Member
Join Date: December 27, 2008
Location: Western, KY
Posts: 41
|
Jimbob86 wrote:
The rifling that makes it "legal" also makes the shot pattern lousy: shot hits everything but what you actually point the damn thing at! What defines "rifling" ? * Land and grooves vs. Smooth bore? What if a bore has straight lands and grooves (no rotation?) ( *I am asking because I do not know the answer as it relates to the NFA/AOW laws )
__________________
Hardships are quickly forgotten. Intense heat, bitter cold, rain and snow, fatigue, and luckless hunting fade quickly into memories of great fellowship, thoughts of beautiful country, pleasant camps, and happy campfires. Fred Bear 1902-1988 |
January 23, 2011, 05:19 PM | #19 |
Member
Join Date: December 10, 2009
Posts: 90
|
28 Gauge Judge
Just received notice from Guns America taurus removed the 28 gauge Judge from the booth and will not produce it.
Jeff |
January 24, 2011, 07:27 PM | #20 |
Member
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Posts: 36
|
wow...........
Talk about crash and burn...
and it was just play by play reading the thread. cool E |
January 25, 2011, 04:10 AM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 16, 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,113
|
I wish I knew why Taurus thought they'd be able to slip it by.
And I wish I knew *exactly* why the BATFE zapped it. There's a lot of speculation, but that's about it. |
January 25, 2011, 10:42 AM | #22 |
Member
Join Date: March 23, 2010
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 30
|
Well kozak I would have to guess the BATFE stoppped it because it is in clear violation of well esablished rules. But I too wish to know how/why Taurus thought this would be ok.
__________________
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -Thomas Jefferson |
January 25, 2011, 11:17 AM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
Failure of judgement?
Who knows. One would think that they would figure this out - or maybe they thought they could get a little more PR for their entire Judge line with this gun?
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
January 25, 2011, 02:01 PM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2010
Location: The brown eye of america
Posts: 463
|
Maybe they made it just test the BATFE, or see if they get it by!
__________________
Buy your guns by Yardline, Not Looks. |
January 25, 2011, 02:02 PM | #25 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 7, 2000
Location: Floating down the James River in VA
Posts: 2,599
|
Quote:
Straight lands and grooves are already used in Hastings barrels (called "Wadlock" IIRC). AOWs can't have rifling by definition, unless they are a pistol or revolver modified with a vertical firing grip. The Raging Judge in its configuration as displayed would be a DD unless the secretary of the treasury decided that it had a sporting purpose under the exception for shotguns. This is already done for shotguns sold with rifled barrels, for example, which don't otherwise fit the ATF definition of shotguns (having a smooth bore). Remember, all shotguns over .5" bore can be redefined as "non-sporting" at will by the the Sec of the Treasury, at which point they become DDs. This is how ATF "redefined" the Striker 12. Rifling is irrelevant to the DD law. |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|