Protective vests and being honest - Page 2

C0untZer0 · September 22, 2011, 06:12 PM

Body armor also increases your odds of surviving a bear attack - not to mention increasing your odds of surviving being attacked by a bull.. good to know if you either find yourself in Yellowstone or in the bullring...

KChen986 · September 22, 2011, 06:14 PM

Countzer0, have you ever worn body armor for an extended period of time? It's hot and it's uncomfortable, even in the winter. If your risk assessment calls for body armor, so be it. Just be aware that it is very uncomfortable.

kozak6 · September 22, 2011, 06:29 PM

Quote:

This is the same old chestnut used to argue against purchasing and carrying a gun.

And OBTW - body armor increases your chances of surviving a car crash

Maybe they're right

. But it isn't that hard to justify carrying a pistol, and especially if you already have one.

Just how much does armor increase the odds of surviving a car crash? Armor does have to be replaced every few years, so the expenses just keep compounding. I wonder if defensive driving classes would be a better investment for all that money.

GM1967 · September 22, 2011, 06:51 PM

Quote:

I am willing to bet most people that think a vest for every day wear is a great idea has never worn body armor for any amount of time.

As someone who has had to wear a vest every day, all day, for quite a while, I agree.

They are very uncomfortable, something you really can't appreciate until you wear one all day for a while. Essentially no heat escapes through the vest, so you will probably wind up soaked in sweat under the vest even in the winter time. When I was wearing one, all I could think about most of the time was taking it off....which is distracting, and not very good for situational awareness. The more you move while wearing one, the less comfortable you will be. I think most cops can stand them because they spend much of their time in air-conditioned patrol cars. How police on foot stand them, I have no idea.

They also really don't offer that much protection. Lower belly, groin, neck, head, all exposed, and all potentially fatal places to get hit. There are also two gaping holes that lead right into your heart-lung region, if the bad guy happens to be somewhat to your side instead of directly in front/behind you. And they only really protect you from pistol caliber rounds, unless you buy a really heavy one, and then it's going to be far more uncomfortable.

And after all that, they are still only a passive defense -- the bad guy can just finish you off with a shot to the head, after he realizes that a couple shots to the chest took you down but didn't kill you.

If you think you are likely to get shot, then you might want to wear a vest. If you are only as likely to be shot as the rest of the population, then you are probably going to be suffering needlessly wearing a vest

chadstrickland · September 22, 2011, 06:56 PM

I have a used interceptor that the army traded in and when I say used I mean used. I highly doubt it would stop a 22 solid point. All it really is now is a beefy plate carrier and it stays besides my bed along with my carbine.

I would leave it in the trunk or something but don't really want to wear it around.

Also as far as gun haters not liking it or getting mad. Who cares??? Really. And another thing is that body armor is purely a defensive tool why would it bother them if I wear it. Now I can understand if I stay out in the sun to long and my brain bakes, grabs a trauma plate and beats people in the head with it the whole time running around in just my interceptor body armor. Yea I could understand people being mad. Other than that they have no business what I wear.

I got the armor in a trade. If I had 500 to spend I would go buy something gun related because as other people have said armor is boring. If it doesn't go bang I don't really want it and am only willing to invest a small amount of time and money to maintain it ( girlfriend included )

TXGunNut · September 22, 2011, 08:03 PM

Just how much does armor increase the odds of surviving a car crash? -Kozak6

Seat belts and air bags are more effective but at one time cops didn't have airbags and some often didn't wear seatbelts.

A few were saved from the blunt trauma of the steering wheel during a collision by their ballistic vests. Some bullriders apparently are using Kevlar vests but pretty sure it'll be hard to prove effective against bear attacks.
I still have a very good vest but if my schedule or daily routine suggested a need for it I'd try very hard to make some changes. I'd be better served by toting a 5# fire extinguisher, I have a knack for dumping one of those every few years.

Come to think of it it's hard to imagine an attacker making his way through a cloud of dry chemical extinguisher powder.

troy_mclure · September 22, 2011, 08:15 PM

in louisiana many public schools forbid the wear of vests on their property. theres reg on it but i dont know what.

old bear · September 22, 2011, 09:39 PM

Quote:

They were hot, they were a pain in the butt, and they were heavy (that was when infantry walked and we had enough crap to carry).

Fast forward to 1974. I got into LE, bought one, later was issued one. They were hot, and a pain in the butt.

I'm not saying they are a bad ideal for Soldiers and LE now, I just don't like them.

I sure as heck aint gonna wear one now.

Vests are still hot, and still a pain in the butt!!

I know that problems can happen any time in any location. Yet, if I were going somewhere where I felt I needed to were a vest, I would have to ask myself do I really need to go there? and I believe that the answer would be no. IMHO one of the most important things anyone can do for their protection is stay out of dangerous places. Most of the time we have no business going to locations were we may be placed in danger. Common sense will prevent a lot of problems.

Powderman · September 22, 2011, 11:03 PM

Frequently, you'll see cops out in the cold, wearing regular shirts or maybe a thin jumpsuit. They don't look cold.

Ever wonder why?

Body armor = portable sauna. On a cold day, it will STILL make you sweat.

On a hot day? I have lost 7-10 pounds in a SINGLE SHIFT during the summer time.

Sure, a good vest will stop MOST pistol calibers. There are some that will defeat body armor--with the exception of Level III or IV with titanium or ceramic plates. Those are REALLY hot.

And, there's another factor....anyone here who has worn armor can appreciate this one.

You are on duty, on patrol. The weather has been warm--about 80 degrees. Most folks are nice and comfortable in their summer weight clothing.

You are somewhat miserable. You have been sweating nonstop since the start of watch, and you still have half a shift to go. Business is kinda slow, so you decide to go 10-7 for lunch.

After calling out with Dispatch, you nip over to Subway for a sandwich to go. Back in the patrol unit, you head to a good lunch spot--good visibility and a bit of seclusion. No surprises while you eat, eh?

Open the window, back the car in, get out and lean on the trunk. As you raise the sandwich, your upper body motion causes the body armor to move away from your chest.

Guess what comes out?

Funk. Pure-D, unmitigated, undiluted, 100% pure quill FUNK. The type that says, "AHHHHHH! GO WASH YOUR HIND END!!!! YOU STINK!!!!

Can anyone relate to that?

farmerboy · September 22, 2011, 11:57 PM

You have most on here debating on weather or not to wear it or atleast maybe wear I'n unsafe areas. It's a personal preference i guess. I'm a LEO, have a level 111 siting at home never worn one on duty, never know from one minute to the next who you will pull over or the dangerous situations you may find yourself I'n. Especially around 2-3 am which is the shift i like to work. I've had it I'n my car a couple of times I'n case and said I'd don it in the event but really i guess I'll take my chances and rather like to think all my range experience, plenty of ammo and using my head and prayer will continue to bring me home. Just my take. Feel the need. Get one and wear it, if not then don't.

Double Naught Spy · September 23, 2011, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Countzer0, have you ever worn body armor for an extended period of time? It's hot and it's uncomfortable, even in the winter. If your risk assessment calls for body armor, so be it. Just be aware that it is very uncomfortable.

I used to regularly wear a vest when going to training and when at public ranges. In the winter, I thought it was great to wear. It kept my core body temperature up very nicely.

As for being uncomfortable, that depends on a lot of factors concerning fit. I had one vest that I found no more uncomfortable than wearing a heavy duty winter vest, which really wasn't uncomfortable at all, just a bit bulky. So if you have an improperly fitted and adjusted vest, it wil be uncomfortable. However like carrying a gun, if you make a few changes in how you do things, one of the lighter weight vests, say Level II, aren't too shabby and a really thin Level IIa vest may be terrific.

C0untZer0 · September 24, 2011, 02:26 AM

Quote:

... pretty sure it'll be hard to prove effective against bear attacks.

- TXGunNut

http://news.yahoo.com/victim-mont-gr...232212127.html

I rest my case.

therealdeal · September 24, 2011, 02:56 AM

body armour is heavier and more of a pain in the military than a vest that a cop can pull over his head and wear w/some velcro.

the bottom line most people think it is a pain or think life is too short or think it is paranoid or: choose any reason here.

I know many law enforcement agencies issue a vest but they will not issue a vest unless you sign something saying you will wear it. This could be a cop on the beat or an older, more experienced vet & LT now behind a desk. Many do choose to wear them though. Even in these agencies, many choose not to wear them even though they have more reason too. I myself do not wear a vest, but from my experiences they really aren't that much of a pain anyways. They help you stay in shape too. Many can be worn without someone even knowing the wiser too. I don't see anything wrong with it, but it is uncommon and rare, yes. Maybe in 30yrs it will be the norm? who knows, I'll be tipping back a tom collins and on my way out by then anyhow(or maybe just tipping back some water I had to pay for because my well water isn't free anymore).

armsmaster270 · September 24, 2011, 06:03 AM

There have been many officers that after being shot while wearing soft body armor such as Second Chance have immediatly returned fire and killed their assailant.
Richard Davis would demo to Police Chiefs by shooting himself with a pistol while wearing his vest then return fire hitting a target.
I wear body armor all the time when going on Ride Along's with various agencies across the nation.

My agency there was no option, if you were on the street you wore your issued vest or got days off without pay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaS_2...layer_embedded

Kevin Rohrer · September 24, 2011, 07:30 AM

Unless you go in harm's way on a regular basis, there is no reason or need to wear body armor.

Having written that and read the posts here (both sane and not-so-sane) it might actually make sense to wear one during hunting season--provided other hunters are using pistols, shotguns, or muzzle loaders. A vest below Level-IV won't stop center-fire rifle bullets and no one wears a level-IV except SWAT entry teams.

Been there, done that.

kaylorinhi · September 24, 2011, 07:51 AM

to all of you that it fits, PT more.

I figure that when the time comes Plates or nothing. So I have a plate carrier but no Soft Armor, should I probably, but that falls down the line of purchases.

farmerboy · September 24, 2011, 12:45 PM

maybe we should start weaqring one everywhere. Who knows maybe we will be at the grocery store and someone might try to shoot everyone in there, Or maybe while at the park someone may pull up or try to start shooting everyone there Or while we're in our easy chair at home someone may try to kick our door in and shoot us there. hehe Yes everywhere could be at the wrong place at the wrong time really but dont let fear get you or you've already been defeated...

kgpcr · September 24, 2011, 12:53 PM

If i was a cop i would wear one. Other than that i think its paranoia unluss you are in a really bad area and trouble abounds there. other than that i think they rank right up there with a tin foil hat

AK103K · September 24, 2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

dont let fear get you or you've already been defeated...

I wear a gun everywhere, and fear has nothing to do with it.

Wearing armor when I feel the need is the same thing. No fear, just common sense. Its available, so why not use it if the situation warrants?

Don P · September 24, 2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

especially the light ones.

My vest was cumbersome to wear and I had the choice of using either my internal or external carrier. Hot in FLA and heavy to wear daily. Mine was rated for 357 magnums. Not something I would want to wear daily plus they recommend changing out a vest after 5 years due to sweat. Whatever the case are you living in a war zone that you feel the need for a vest? A good one will cost almost as much as a new gun.

.

Quote:

Its available, so why not use it if the situation warrants?

Curious as to what situation a civilian would be in to warrant wearing a vest?

C0untZer0 · September 24, 2011, 01:37 PM

The same situation that would warrant carrying a pistol ?

I don't know anything about them really and I should because I beleive they are as significant tactically as any firearm or any holster. There may be a decision made to not wear one... but the fact for me is that I've never made them a part of my thinking enough to even make a decision about them, because when I mainly purchase things, I buy them because I think they are neat and things I will have fun with.

I don't think it's a simple yes / no decision. There are different quality materials out there now that vary in the thickness needed, thus varying expense. And there are different levels of protection. Would it make sense to make some kind of assesment of what caliber I am most likely to run into and get a vest that will stop the rounds most commonly used by robbers?

You can get lighter more comfortable vests that stop a majority of things that you'd be facing. Like the decision to get a vest - you'd be making a decision of what you'd be likely to face. If you think you're not likely to come up against a .44 magnum, then maybe you purchase a thinner Level II-A vest.

Don P · September 24, 2011, 02:01 PM

In my opinion I think and feel the money could be better spent on other things. The only reason I have a vest is that If I wore it and was killed in the line of duty the wife would have received $250,000 instead of $40,000. This was while I worked for Loomis. This I learned from my above experience is a bullet resistant vest will NOT stop a knife. Difference vest for a different threat.
The price of my vest with the 2 carriers was $700. Again my opinion why would one want a vest in a state where one cannot conceal carry if not just for the sake of saying I own a bullet resistant vest. Like I stated previously $400 + buys a lot of gun stuff.

AK103K · September 24, 2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Curious as to what situation a civilian would be in to warrant wearing a vest?

Pick what ever floats your boat.

As I said earlier, I wear one at work when in the woods during hunting season, and Im glad I have it.

I also wear it at ranges and around people I dont know when I shoot. Just look around you at most ranges, especially public ranges, and tell me you wouldnt want one if one were available.

One does bedside duty as well. Its right there by the bed, under my pants, which is where my pistol always is, and both are instantly available if needed.

Im kind of amazed at the negativity associated with them, especially from people who say they carry a gun. The very same reasoning can be applied there. Like carrying a gun, its a personal choice, for whatever reason the person sees fit. If you dont want to wear one, thats fine, dont. Dont carry a gun either, youll probably never need it anyway.

Now, whats left to talk about? Knives and saps?

Don P · September 24, 2011, 02:33 PM

Just a thought that if folks are hot to trot for a vest they should try to borrow one so they can experience what its like to wear one in all seasons. Flat out here in FLA is truly sucked from May to late October.

C0untZer0 · September 24, 2011, 02:42 PM

You can buy test vests for $30 to $40.

These are vests that have been used in videos and classes for demonstrations, so they are NOT meant for protection. But if you want to find a place on one that hasn't already been shot, you can make your YouTube video or whatever.

They have 100% of the original heat retention and discomfort without any of the actual ballistic protection. So ya, it would give someone an idea of just how uncomfortable it would be...

September 22, 2011, 06:14 PM	#27
KChen986 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Location: Ninja Mall Posts: 818	Countzer0, have you ever worn body armor for an extended period of time? It's hot and it's uncomfortable, even in the winter. If your risk assessment calls for body armor, so be it. Just be aware that it is very uncomfortable. __________________ E Pluribus Unum

September 22, 2011, 06:56 PM	#30
chadstrickland Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 537	I have a used interceptor that the army traded in and when I say used I mean used. I highly doubt it would stop a 22 solid point. All it really is now is a beefy plate carrier and it stays besides my bed along with my carbine. I would leave it in the trunk or something but don't really want to wear it around. Also as far as gun haters not liking it or getting mad. Who cares??? Really. And another thing is that body armor is purely a defensive tool why would it bother them if I wear it. Now I can understand if I stay out in the sun to long and my brain bakes, grabs a trauma plate and beats people in the head with it the whole time running around in just my interceptor body armor. Yea I could understand people being mad. Other than that they have no business what I wear. I got the armor in a trade. If I had 500 to spend I would go buy something gun related because as other people have said armor is boring. If it doesn't go bang I don't really want it and am only willing to invest a small amount of time and money to maintain it ( girlfriend included ) __________________ Two weapons that was designed by the same man still in use by the us military 100 years later...1911 and m2...is there anything that comes close.....lol annd maybe perhaps a sig sauer p226 tac ops edition..

September 22, 2011, 08:03 PM	#31
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	Just how much does armor increase the odds of surviving a car crash? -Kozak6 Seat belts and air bags are more effective but at one time cops didn't have airbags and some often didn't wear seatbelts. A few were saved from the blunt trauma of the steering wheel during a collision by their ballistic vests. Some bullriders apparently are using Kevlar vests but pretty sure it'll be hard to prove effective against bear attacks. I still have a very good vest but if my schedule or daily routine suggested a need for it I'd try very hard to make some changes. I'd be better served by toting a 5# fire extinguisher, I have a knack for dumping one of those every few years. Come to think of it it's hard to imagine an attacker making his way through a cloud of dry chemical extinguisher powder. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

September 22, 2011, 08:15 PM	#32
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	in louisiana many public schools forbid the wear of vests on their property. theres reg on it but i dont know what. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

September 22, 2011, 11:03 PM	#34
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Frequently, you'll see cops out in the cold, wearing regular shirts or maybe a thin jumpsuit. They don't look cold. Ever wonder why? Body armor = portable sauna. On a cold day, it will STILL make you sweat. On a hot day? I have lost 7-10 pounds in a SINGLE SHIFT during the summer time. Sure, a good vest will stop MOST pistol calibers. There are some that will defeat body armor--with the exception of Level III or IV with titanium or ceramic plates. Those are REALLY hot. And, there's another factor....anyone here who has worn armor can appreciate this one. You are on duty, on patrol. The weather has been warm--about 80 degrees. Most folks are nice and comfortable in their summer weight clothing. You are somewhat miserable. You have been sweating nonstop since the start of watch, and you still have half a shift to go. Business is kinda slow, so you decide to go 10-7 for lunch. After calling out with Dispatch, you nip over to Subway for a sandwich to go. Back in the patrol unit, you head to a good lunch spot--good visibility and a bit of seclusion. No surprises while you eat, eh? Open the window, back the car in, get out and lean on the trunk. As you raise the sandwich, your upper body motion causes the body armor to move away from your chest. Guess what comes out? Funk. Pure-D, unmitigated, undiluted, 100% pure quill FUNK. The type that says, "AHHHHHH! GO WASH YOUR HIND END!!!! YOU STINK!!!! Can anyone relate to that? __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

September 22, 2011, 06:12 PM	#26
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Body armor also increases your odds of surviving a bear attack - not to mention increasing your odds of surviving being attacked by a bull.. good to know if you either find yourself in Yellowstone or in the bullring...

September 22, 2011, 11:57 PM	#35
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	You have most on here debating on weather or not to wear it or atleast maybe wear I'n unsafe areas. It's a personal preference i guess. I'm a LEO, have a level 111 siting at home never worn one on duty, never know from one minute to the next who you will pull over or the dangerous situations you may find yourself I'n. Especially around 2-3 am which is the shift i like to work. I've had it I'n my car a couple of times I'n case and said I'd don it in the event but really i guess I'll take my chances and rather like to think all my range experience, plenty of ammo and using my head and prayer will continue to bring me home. Just my take. Feel the need. Get one and wear it, if not then don't.

September 24, 2011, 02:56 AM	#38
therealdeal Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 627	body armour is heavier and more of a pain in the military than a vest that a cop can pull over his head and wear w/some velcro. the bottom line most people think it is a pain or think life is too short or think it is paranoid or: choose any reason here. I know many law enforcement agencies issue a vest but they will not issue a vest unless you sign something saying you will wear it. This could be a cop on the beat or an older, more experienced vet & LT now behind a desk. Many do choose to wear them though. Even in these agencies, many choose not to wear them even though they have more reason too. I myself do not wear a vest, but from my experiences they really aren't that much of a pain anyways. They help you stay in shape too. Many can be worn without someone even knowing the wiser too. I don't see anything wrong with it, but it is uncommon and rare, yes. Maybe in 30yrs it will be the norm? who knows, I'll be tipping back a tom collins and on my way out by then anyhow(or maybe just tipping back some water I had to pay for because my well water isn't free anymore). __________________ NRA Distinguished Life Member "Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)

September 24, 2011, 06:03 AM	#39
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	There have been many officers that after being shot while wearing soft body armor such as Second Chance have immediatly returned fire and killed their assailant. Richard Davis would demo to Police Chiefs by shooting himself with a pistol while wearing his vest then return fire hitting a target. I wear body armor all the time when going on Ride Along's with various agencies across the nation. My agency there was no option, if you were on the street you wore your issued vest or got days off without pay. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaS_2...layer_embedded __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S. Last edited by armsmaster270; September 24, 2011 at 06:10 AM.

September 24, 2011, 07:30 AM	#40
Kevin Rohrer Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2010 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 1,049	Unless you go in harm's way on a regular basis, there is no reason or need to wear body armor. Having written that and read the posts here (both sane and not-so-sane) it might actually make sense to wear one during hunting season--provided other hunters are using pistols, shotguns, or muzzle loaders. A vest below Level-IV won't stop center-fire rifle bullets and no one wears a level-IV except SWAT entry teams. Been there, done that. __________________ Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, ARTCA, and American Legion. Caveat Emptor: Cavery Grips/AmericanGripz/Prestige Grips/Stealth Grips from Clayton, NC. He is a scammer

September 24, 2011, 07:51 AM	#41
kaylorinhi Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: The brown eye of america Posts: 463	to all of you that it fits, PT more. I figure that when the time comes Plates or nothing. So I have a plate carrier but no Soft Armor, should I probably, but that falls down the line of purchases. __________________ Buy your guns by Yardline, Not Looks.

September 24, 2011, 12:45 PM	#42
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	maybe we should start weaqring one everywhere. Who knows maybe we will be at the grocery store and someone might try to shoot everyone in there, Or maybe while at the park someone may pull up or try to start shooting everyone there Or while we're in our easy chair at home someone may try to kick our door in and shoot us there. hehe Yes everywhere could be at the wrong place at the wrong time really but dont let fear get you or you've already been defeated...

September 24, 2011, 12:53 PM	#43
kgpcr Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2005 Posts: 955	If i was a cop i would wear one. Other than that i think its paranoia unluss you are in a really bad area and trouble abounds there. other than that i think they rank right up there with a tin foil hat __________________ Colt King Cobra .357 Colt Anaconda .44mag Springfield Armory .45 Double stack Loaded XD40 service XD45 Taurus 617 .357mag Smith M&P 40

September 24, 2011, 01:37 PM	#46
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	The same situation that would warrant carrying a pistol ? I don't know anything about them really and I should because I beleive they are as significant tactically as any firearm or any holster. There may be a decision made to not wear one... but the fact for me is that I've never made them a part of my thinking enough to even make a decision about them, because when I mainly purchase things, I buy them because I think they are neat and things I will have fun with. I don't think it's a simple yes / no decision. There are different quality materials out there now that vary in the thickness needed, thus varying expense. And there are different levels of protection. Would it make sense to make some kind of assesment of what caliber I am most likely to run into and get a vest that will stop the rounds most commonly used by robbers? You can get lighter more comfortable vests that stop a majority of things that you'd be facing. Like the decision to get a vest - you'd be making a decision of what you'd be likely to face. If you think you're not likely to come up against a .44 magnum, then maybe you purchase a thinner Level II-A vest.

September 24, 2011, 02:01 PM	#47
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	In my opinion I think and feel the money could be better spent on other things. The only reason I have a vest is that If I wore it and was killed in the line of duty the wife would have received $250,000 instead of $40,000. This was while I worked for Loomis. This I learned from my above experience is a bullet resistant vest will NOT stop a knife. Difference vest for a different threat. The price of my vest with the 2 carriers was $700. Again my opinion why would one want a vest in a state where one cannot conceal carry if not just for the sake of saying I own a bullet resistant vest. Like I stated previously $400 + buys a lot of gun stuff. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.* Last edited by Don P; September 24, 2011 at 02:10 PM.

September 24, 2011, 02:33 PM	#49
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Just a thought that if folks are hot to trot for a vest they should try to borrow one so they can experience what its like to wear one in all seasons. Flat out here in FLA is truly sucked from May to late October. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

September 24, 2011, 02:42 PM	#50
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	You can buy test vests for $30 to $40. These are vests that have been used in videos and classes for demonstrations, so they are NOT meant for protection. But if you want to find a place on one that hasn't already been shot, you can make your YouTube video or whatever. They have 100% of the original heat retention and discomfort without any of the actual ballistic protection. So ya, it would give someone an idea of just how uncomfortable it would be...