old double barrel

E.J.White · March 10, 2010, 10:36 AM

I have a side by side double barrel.Markings on top read New Era gun works New York Nitro Hammer The metal is Damascus I have been told not to shoot it by several people.Do I neeed special shotgun shells so I wont damage the gun? Also any other info would be appreciated.

DPris · March 10, 2010, 11:31 AM

You need to not shoot it. You've been given good advice.

Damascus barrels were typically made by wrapping a long billet of steel around a mandrell in a spiral pattern and hammer/heat welding the steel together.
That long-outdated type of construction is not known for handling modern pressures.
You could handload your own shells WAY down & try them, but why bother? You won't get usable performance & you still risk "un-wrapping" the barrel.
Denis

E.J.White · March 10, 2010, 11:45 AM

Thank you, would you have any idea of a value of a gun like this I cant find any info from the maker

DPris · March 10, 2010, 12:24 PM

Hard to say without photos.
If a run-of-the-mill damascus shotgun from an obscure maker in fair condition, could be a couple hundred as a wallhanger.
If it has any deluxe features (engraving, fine wood, etc.), it could be more.
If made by a known maker, it could go higher.
If it could be documented to have belonged to a historical figure, it would go up.
If in excellent condition in a case with accessories, it'd go up.
Denis

oneounceload · March 10, 2010, 01:23 PM

If it is a typical "hardware store" type of production gun, value would be maybe $100.

If not, AND it has been thoroughly checked by a competent smith who knows those types of guns, low pressure "vintager" style loads MAY be able to be used. (Notice the MAY, not definitively yes).

E.J.White · March 10, 2010, 02:22 PM

Thank you for the info I believe you are right there isnt very much special about this shot gun

apr1775 · March 11, 2010, 03:19 PM

Here we go again on the damascus barrel debate. Some want to label it as weak and dangerous. Back in the 1800's, it was the strongest shotgun barrel making method around. Improved steel making processes in the early 20th century made plain steel barrels strong yet inexpensive. One must remember that these guns were made in the time of corrosive low pressure ammo; so the gun must be inspected for defects and only used with appropriate ammo.

jaguarxk120 · March 12, 2010, 09:35 AM

Apr1775 back about 25 years ago our old neighbor to me about his great grand daddy out hunting ducks on the marshes of Lake St.Clair. They were out about half a day and a group of ducks came in and grand daddy let loose with one of them new magnum loads 1 1/2 oz. of number 2 shot. His old double let loose with such a loud explosion the righ hand barrel just came apart jest like a mattress spring popping threw a old one. Took them over an hour to get the gun and barrel back to the old truck so they could drive back home. That old damascus was torn apart like a piece of papaer.

NOW if you believe that I've got a bridge to sell you!

Right now today there are many old damascus barreled guns, shoutguns/rifles out there being shot and used and used well. Some in places where you don't want to be. The English made some of the finest guns out there and they were made to the highest standards of the day, some the stuff made today can't even hold a candle to what was made at that time.
Don't give up on a older gun because it has damascus barrels. you just have to find a "competent" gunsmith. Not some one who's ink isn't dry on his papers yet. You need someone who's been at the trade for a very long time. Take all the information found hear and other places on the net with a grain of salt.

Damascus steel making is a very high art as the steel is welded and woven thgether to form plates/bars that are then welded to form the barrels. Get a copy of W.W. Greeners book The Gun. In there he talks about the making of barrels and the process of proving them. As far as the steel used go into Williams-Sonoma store and look at the danascus knives they have there, sharlike you can't believe, check the price too you won't believe.

DPris · March 12, 2010, 01:46 PM

The BETTER grade guns might have some superiority over a typical hardware store damascus barrel, but the fact remains that just because you're not reading about it everyday in the newspapers doesn't mean those who do shoot damascus barrels on occasion don't blow them up on occasion.
The best recommendation is to NOT shoot them.
Choice is yours.
Denis

Harley Nolden · March 12, 2010, 02:40 PM

This gun is what is known as a "HARDWARE GUN" That is made by a major gun mfg for a hardware store or gun dealer. The New Era is a trade name used by Crescent Firearms Co on guns made for Simmons Hardware Co of St Louis about 1873.

As aforementioned, it is an inexpensive utilitarian shotgun and the value, again depending upon condition, would be aroud $100.00 to $250.00 depending upon the buyer. Some collectors value these guns greater than other, as this is their only collection.

Mr Harley

apr1775 · March 12, 2010, 06:13 PM

Yes, WW Greener's book is an excellent read. Packed with info on older gun making methods.

March 10, 2010, 10:36 AM	#1
E.J.White Member Join Date: December 3, 2009 Posts: 33	old double barrel I have a side by side double barrel.Markings on top read New Era gun works New York Nitro Hammer The metal is Damascus I have been told not to shoot it by several people.Do I neeed special shotgun shells so I wont damage the gun? Also any other info would be appreciated.

March 10, 2010, 01:23 PM	#5
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	If it is a typical "hardware store" type of production gun, value would be maybe $100. If not, AND it has been thoroughly checked by a competent smith who knows those types of guns, low pressure "vintager" style loads MAY be able to be used. (Notice the MAY, not definitively yes). Last edited by oneounceload; March 11, 2010 at 03:35 PM. Reason: damn ten thumbs trying to type

March 12, 2010, 02:40 PM	#10
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	New era shotgun This gun is what is known as a "HARDWARE GUN" That is made by a major gun mfg for a hardware store or gun dealer. The New Era is a trade name used by Crescent Firearms Co on guns made for Simmons Hardware Co of St Louis about 1873. As aforementioned, it is an inexpensive utilitarian shotgun and the value, again depending upon condition, would be aroud $100.00 to $250.00 depending upon the buyer. Some collectors value these guns greater than other, as this is their only collection. Mr Harley

March 10, 2010, 11:31 AM	#2
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	You need to not shoot it. You've been given good advice. Damascus barrels were typically made by wrapping a long billet of steel around a mandrell in a spiral pattern and hammer/heat welding the steel together. That long-outdated type of construction is not known for handling modern pressures. You could handload your own shells WAY down & try them, but why bother? You won't get usable performance & you still risk "un-wrapping" the barrel. Denis

March 10, 2010, 11:45 AM	#3
E.J.White Member Join Date: December 3, 2009 Posts: 33	Thank you, would you have any idea of a value of a gun like this I cant find any info from the maker

March 10, 2010, 12:24 PM	#4
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Hard to say without photos. If a run-of-the-mill damascus shotgun from an obscure maker in fair condition, could be a couple hundred as a wallhanger. If it has any deluxe features (engraving, fine wood, etc.), it could be more. If made by a known maker, it could go higher. If it could be documented to have belonged to a historical figure, it would go up. If in excellent condition in a case with accessories, it'd go up. Denis

March 10, 2010, 02:22 PM	#6
E.J.White Member Join Date: December 3, 2009 Posts: 33	Thank you for the info I believe you are right there isnt very much special about this shot gun

March 11, 2010, 03:19 PM	#7
apr1775 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 425	Here we go again on the damascus barrel debate. Some want to label it as weak and dangerous. Back in the 1800's, it was the strongest shotgun barrel making method around. Improved steel making processes in the early 20th century made plain steel barrels strong yet inexpensive. One must remember that these guns were made in the time of corrosive low pressure ammo; so the gun must be inspected for defects and only used with appropriate ammo.

March 12, 2010, 09:35 AM	#8
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	Apr1775 back about 25 years ago our old neighbor to me about his great grand daddy out hunting ducks on the marshes of Lake St.Clair. They were out about half a day and a group of ducks came in and grand daddy let loose with one of them new magnum loads 1 1/2 oz. of number 2 shot. His old double let loose with such a loud explosion the righ hand barrel just came apart jest like a mattress spring popping threw a old one. Took them over an hour to get the gun and barrel back to the old truck so they could drive back home. That old damascus was torn apart like a piece of papaer. NOW if you believe that I've got a bridge to sell you! Right now today there are many old damascus barreled guns, shoutguns/rifles out there being shot and used and used well. Some in places where you don't want to be. The English made some of the finest guns out there and they were made to the highest standards of the day, some the stuff made today can't even hold a candle to what was made at that time. Don't give up on a older gun because it has damascus barrels. you just have to find a "competent" gunsmith. Not some one who's ink isn't dry on his papers yet. You need someone who's been at the trade for a very long time. Take all the information found hear and other places on the net with a grain of salt. Damascus steel making is a very high art as the steel is welded and woven thgether to form plates/bars that are then welded to form the barrels. Get a copy of W.W. Greeners book The Gun. In there he talks about the making of barrels and the process of proving them. As far as the steel used go into Williams-Sonoma store and look at the danascus knives they have there, sharlike you can't believe, check the price too you won't believe.

March 12, 2010, 01:46 PM	#9
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	The BETTER grade guns might have some superiority over a typical hardware store damascus barrel, but the fact remains that just because you're not reading about it everyday in the newspapers doesn't mean those who do shoot damascus barrels on occasion don't blow them up on occasion. The best recommendation is to NOT shoot them. Choice is yours. Denis

March 12, 2010, 06:13 PM	#11
apr1775 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 425	Yes, WW Greener's book is an excellent read. Packed with info on older gun making methods.