.308 bullets and loads

[savage10fple]

Has anyone used the 208gr amax? I shoot a savage and use sierra 175 match behind 43gr of 4895. The amax c.o. is off the charts. Any comments?

[Jimro]

I don't shoot much heavier than 175 for match ammo, 180 for hunting in my 308 Win.

That being said, a lot of folks use the bigger 30 cal chamberings to push 210 VLDs downrange with good results. The problem with those 210 VLDs isn't that they have a high BC, it is that they destabilize when they hit subsonic, this is the reason the newest 300 Win Mag sniper round uses a 220gr SMK.

So, if you are shooting out to 1K or a bit beyond with a magnum, those AMAXs will do you just fine, but things might get squirrelly when they transition to subsonic. I wish I had the means to test this in real life :P

Jimro

[savage10fple]

Really lookin for reload data for the 208amax. Powders loads, velocitys, bullet drops. Anyone out there with any experience with this bullet? Thank you for ur input into this, I'm just tryin to work up a load to test this bullet with.i

[Unclenick]

CAUTION: The following post includes calculated loading data not currently published for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

Those 208's get used more often in .30-06 and .300 Win Mag, with 10" twists (10" is needed; a 12" twist will produce marginal stability with this bullet length). That's because of the greater powder space. When you get a really long bullet far down in the .308 case you've subtracted so much powder space that you sometimes can't get it up to high enough speed for the higher BC to be the great advantage you expect. With a 24" barrel you might get around 2350 fps with it, based on Hodgdon's data for 200 grain bullets in the .308. At that velocity it won't stay above the transonic range all the way to 1000 yards, and may start to tumble short of that.

QuickLOAD thinks you'll get greatest velocity using Winchester cases and IMR4895 or Reloader 17, or BL-C(2). In tighter cases (all other brands) the favored positions go to Bl-C(2), 748, and H4895 and you lose a bit of velocity.

Starting loads from QuickLOAD with the bullet seated to 2.800" COL would be:

             IMI Mil case   Winchester case       
H4895         34 gr.             36 gr.
748           35 gr.             37 gr.
BL-C(2)       37 gr.             39 gr
IMR 4895      35 gr.             37 gr.
RL17          38 gr              40 gr.

You'd need to work up from there in 2% steps at most, watching for pressure signs.

[savage10fple]

I set my coal .007 off my lands, makin ofor a coal of 2.793. If I understand u right I'd b lookin at a compressed load? Wud I b btr off sticking with the sierra 175 and bumping up my load to achieve a btr velocity verses the change of bullet with a btr b.c.?

[5R milspec]

to get the best from the 208 A-max you will need R17 or varget.seat the bullet as long as you can in your rifels chamber.most use win brass with 48-50 grains of R17.and with varget the top end is around 43gn's.for me I like 47.5gn's of R17 in Lapua brass.haven't tried varget yet.R17 puts out better fps than varget.I'll say around 2-300 fps difference ( 2400-2600 )some even higher.just depends on the length of your barrel.

just work up a ladder test with either powder.I started out at 45gns of R17 to the load I liked at 47.5.got to 48 but didn't like the looks of the primer.so I went with a half grain less.but thats all so with Lapua brass.like I said most use win brass and getting more of it in the case.either powder will get you out to 1000 yards easy.just choose and load up some to see.

and most are at a COAL of 3.000.for me with my long remmy chamber I am at 3.120 to the tip of the bullet.yeap I feed one at a time.

[T. O'Heir]

The A-Max will be much longer than a 175.
"...Really lookin for reload data for the 208..." For specific data you'll need a Hornady manual. I'd start with 200 grain data. Mind you, 200 grains is generally considered max for a .308.

[savage10fple]

Thank you very much for the great information guys. Kodos

[5R milspec]

the newest book does not have anything for a 308 with the 208gn A-max.thats if I am not wrong.but really think I am right.

i would have thought it did though.with all of the info for the load at snipershide and othe sites it should.and thats with Haornady team members reading it all.but OK its not.but we still have real world info to go by.mine was/is real world with my 308 5R.

just be safe for what you choose to do.I think you will enjoy it.but be ready for the bang.it really talks to ya.:

[savage10fple]

5r milspec, email I can contact u at?

[Unclenick]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

Originally Posted by 5RMilspec

. . . seat the bullet as long as you can in your rifels chamber.most use win brass with 48-50 grains of R17

5RMilspec,

QuickLOAD and a quick perusal of Alliant's data for RL17 show those 48-50 grain loads are about right in a .30-06, but in the OP's .308, even in a Winchester case, 48 and 50 grains show 83,000 psi and 98,000 psi, respectively in QuickLOAD. I know it's just a computer program and not actual firing, but those loads seem both hot and pretty heavily compressed at about 111% and 115% of case capacity. In a gun with a very long feebore, seating way out could bring the numbers down substantially, but the OP says he's already 0.007" off the lands at just 2.793" COL, so his pressure could actually run higher than QuickLOAD predicts with the lands that close. I'd be carefully working up from my much smaller numbers.


Savage10fple,

To answer your earlier question, you might want to take a look at the Berger 175 grain VLD and also their long range VLD. Call Berger and ask about those in .308. You could ask the same about their 185 grain VLD and VLD LR. I've not tried fitting either in my own 10FP LE, having settled in with the 175 gr. SMK because they do well through the transonic range. When I run low on 175's, I'll be looking at the Berger bullets. I understand from others that the 185 gr. VLD LR's are very good in .308. Just no personal experience with them.

[savage10fple]

Thx unclenick ill check out both loads. Prop will not start loading for a few weeks, but ill b sure to post loads and velocitys with ur disclaimer of course.

[Jimro]

You know every couple of years it I find someone experimenting with heavy 30 cal bullets in the 308 thinking that they can beat the 175 SMK, 178 AMAX, or 180 VLD's on the market.

It just can't be done, the BC on the heavier pills isn't a big enough advantage over the 175~180 grain bullets to overcome the velocity advantage of the lighter pills.

Last time I saw this was when a guy at Snipersparadise was trying to get to 2600 fps with a 190 gr SMK. It just isn't safe, and you have a helluva time finding a powder that has the density to get crammed into the brass.

One of these days someone will figure out how to do it, maybe with some newfangled powder.

Jimro

[savage10fple]

Just seems to me that anything under 2500-2600fps is not worth loading. That's y I've stuck with the sierra 175. But lookin at the hornady 208 b.c. throw me for a loop. I'm gna take all the info that I've been giving and make I decision on what I want to load. Will keep yall posted. Thx for everything.

[Unclenick]

A quick ballistic program run-through says you'll need about 2500 fps on the 208 to keep it above the transonic range (usually given as around Mach 0.95 to Mach 1.25, but there is opinion wiggle in that based on different bullets) all the way to 1000 yards at U.S. Army Std. Metro. conditions. Going to be tough to get that in the .308 case without going over the standard SAAMI pressures.

Some guns can handle that and some can't. I don't like running hot if I can avoid it and still get accuracy, just because it increases throat erosion rates and general fatigue of the steel.

[5RWill]

I shoot Berger 175gr BT LRs

2.805 COL
44gr Varget
Nosler Custom Brass
Fed 210m
2618.

Depending on conditions JBM shows around 1250fps at 1000yds. The extra .015BC helps eek out some more performance per velocity.

[savage10fple]

What type of rifle