1903 Springfield Rejected Prototype.

Junkgunfixer · February 7, 2023, 04:23 PM

I have this ultra rare Springfield model 1903? receiver that I picked up at a estate sale years ago. When I first got it I researched the heck out of it and found that it was part of a military contract that was rejected. Consequently most of these were tossed yet a few had leaked out to the public somehow where they were used in what were called Frankenstein guns if I recall that being the term. That's what I remember reading and I'll be darned if I can find that info again! I should have wrote it down but I didn't. Does anyone out here have any idea where I can find the info on this? Look closely, it's not a mark I. There's nothing like it out there that I can find this time around.

Jim Watson · February 7, 2023, 05:37 PM

Interesting but I never saw the like.
It looks like most of the machining is complete except the right side is just flat with none of the standard contouring.

Junkgunfixer · February 7, 2023, 07:13 PM

Seemingly yes. But there's more to this thing than just that, when compared to others. The bolt notch for one and the underside design for another. I had a 1903 stock at one point and it wouldn't drop in correctly also.

Nodak1858 · February 8, 2023, 01:08 PM

Is it forged or cast?

Junkgunfixer · February 8, 2023, 05:23 PM

It looks forged to me.

Nodak1858 · February 8, 2023, 09:06 PM

Wonder if you tried one of those reverse image search deals if it would find anything.

101combatvet · February 9, 2023, 09:15 AM

Have you looked at Brophy's book on the Springfield?

Scorch · February 9, 2023, 04:32 PM

I've seen a few of the Springfield forgings over the years. No one I know of has ever been able to turn one into cash except by selling it as-is to someone else. No one I know has ever been able to get one finished up as a shooter. But who knows? Maybe you'll be the first. Biggest problem with them is they are not finished or heat treated and they have a lot of porosity in them.

Junkgunfixer · February 10, 2023, 08:55 AM

Hadn't looked at Brophy's. I'd have to go to a library or buy it online and it's quite honestly not eating at me that badly. But thanks I appreciate the help here 101combatvet!
Well Scorch I suspect you are mostly correct here. But when I did figure this out a few years back, before forgetting the research, There was apparently some rifles that were made from this particular design that were nicknamed Frankenstein guns if I recall correctly. Apparently they were a mixed match of several different makes and models. Who why when where is all I'm trying to figure out I guess.

Nodak1858 · February 11, 2023, 04:02 PM

Is it threaded for a barrel, or the trigger guard screws?

**4V50 Gary** · February 14, 2023, 10:37 PM

See what Bruce Campbell The Smokeless Era has to say. Finally, consult the National Park Service at Springfield Armory National Historic Monument.

Mk VII · February 25, 2023, 04:09 PM

Is it one of the semi-finished M1901 receivers that were sold to Bannerman and stored by him for many years? I don't see the 'hump' on the charger bridge and the cutoff spindle housing extends beyond the thumb-cut. All Model 1901 features.

BandeauRouge · August 10, 2023, 11:26 AM

the mil surp rifle forum has a book for download on the springfield rifle, it has all manufacturing steps and processes. and dimensions for building your own jigs, fixtures, and tooling. And has correct dimensions for all parts..

could do a comparison study

**44 AMP** · August 10, 2023, 12:31 PM

Maybe.....

IT certainly is rare, but is it something valuable???

Maybe it is a rare prototype receiver, unfinished, and a valuable collector's piece of history.

OR

Maybe its a rare unfinished receiver rejected by the military due to some flaw or other, a leftover from a canceled contract, or something else making it a rare piece of junk, valuable only as scrap metal, or a metal sculpture to the right buyer....

prepare for the worst, and then when it happens, you are prepared. If it doesn't happen, then you are pleasantly surprised!

jonnyc · August 10, 2023, 10:51 PM

Even if it is 'junk', it is the king of item that a serious 1903 collector would love to have in their collection.

HiBC · August 12, 2023, 03:19 AM

I'll offer my guess.
The flat side gives the machinist a "datum" to set in the fixture.
A "batch" of forgings would be sent through the manufacturing process.

The work order would route them through a number of operations on various machines. One op might be drilling and counterboring holes,such as for the trigger pin.

Then on to the next op. At each op, likely it would be gauged or inspected.

It could be rejected at any stage.

In my experience, we would notch them with a cutoff wheel and paint red dykem on them to ID them as scrap, Then a non-conformance report would be filled out.

Modifications or prototype parts might pass through a "low volume" area.

stuckinthe60s · August 16, 2023, 12:33 PM

best place I found is here.
these guys know their stuff.
good luck...............
https://oldguns.net/index.php

gwpercle · August 16, 2023, 06:56 PM

Could it be a National Ordinance 1903A3 receiver ... I have one .
I have glaucoma and can't see the photo's very well ... any markings ?
Gary

**Unclenick** · August 18, 2023, 03:29 PM

It looks like one of the 1901 prototypes from before the safety lug clearance cut was added, except for the flat and the hole through it toward the front (threaded?). I'm guessing HiBC got it right. That's most likely a jig or fixturing tool.

February 8, 2023, 01:08 PM	#4
Nodak1858 Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2009 Location: N. Dakota Posts: 435	Is it forged or cast? __________________ We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

February 8, 2023, 09:06 PM	#6
Nodak1858 Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2009 Location: N. Dakota Posts: 435	Wonder if you tried one of those reverse image search deals if it would find anything. __________________ We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

February 9, 2023, 09:15 AM	#7
101combatvet Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2011 Posts: 667	Have you looked at Brophy's book on the Springfield? __________________ Special Operations Combat Veteran Gunsmith, BS, MFA, Competitive Shooter NRA Certified Firearms Instructor [9 Certifications]

February 9, 2023, 04:32 PM	#8
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	I've seen a few of the Springfield forgings over the years. No one I know of has ever been able to turn one into cash except by selling it as-is to someone else. No one I know has ever been able to get one finished up as a shooter. But who knows? Maybe you'll be the first. Biggest problem with them is they are not finished or heat treated and they have a lot of porosity in them. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

February 11, 2023, 04:02 PM	#10
Nodak1858 Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2009 Location: N. Dakota Posts: 435	Is it threaded for a barrel, or the trigger guard screws? __________________ We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

February 7, 2023, 05:37 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,544	Interesting but I never saw the like. It looks like most of the machining is complete except the right side is just flat with none of the standard contouring.

February 7, 2023, 07:13 PM	#3
Junkgunfixer Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2023 Posts: 4	Seemingly yes. But there's more to this thing than just that, when compared to others. The bolt notch for one and the underside design for another. I had a 1903 stock at one point and it wouldn't drop in correctly also.

February 8, 2023, 05:23 PM	#5
Junkgunfixer Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2023 Posts: 4	It looks forged to me.

February 10, 2023, 08:55 AM	#9
Junkgunfixer Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2023 Posts: 4	Hadn't looked at Brophy's. I'd have to go to a library or buy it online and it's quite honestly not eating at me that badly. But thanks I appreciate the help here 101combatvet! Well Scorch I suspect you are mostly correct here. But when I did figure this out a few years back, before forgetting the research, There was apparently some rifles that were made from this particular design that were nicknamed Frankenstein guns if I recall correctly. Apparently they were a mixed match of several different makes and models. Who why when where is all I'm trying to figure out I guess.

February 14, 2023, 10:37 PM	#11
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,843	See what Bruce Campbell The Smokeless Era has to say. Finally, consult the National Park Service at Springfield Armory National Historic Monument. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 25, 2023, 04:09 PM	#12
Mk VII Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2000 Location: England Posts: 455	Is it one of the semi-finished M1901 receivers that were sold to Bannerman and stored by him for many years? I don't see the 'hump' on the charger bridge and the cutoff spindle housing extends beyond the thumb-cut. All Model 1901 features.

August 10, 2023, 11:26 AM	#13
BandeauRouge member Join Date: August 3, 2023 Posts: 35	the mil surp rifle forum has a book for download on the springfield rifle, it has all manufacturing steps and processes. and dimensions for building your own jigs, fixtures, and tooling. And has correct dimensions for all parts.. could do a comparison study

August 10, 2023, 12:31 PM	#14
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,859	Maybe..... IT certainly is rare, but is it something valuable??? Maybe it is a rare prototype receiver, unfinished, and a valuable collector's piece of history. OR Maybe its a rare unfinished receiver rejected by the military due to some flaw or other, a leftover from a canceled contract, or something else making it a rare piece of junk, valuable only as scrap metal, or a metal sculpture to the right buyer.... prepare for the worst, and then when it happens, you are prepared. If it doesn't happen, then you are pleasantly surprised! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 10, 2023, 10:51 PM	#15
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	Even if it is 'junk', it is the king of item that a serious 1903 collector would love to have in their collection. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

August 12, 2023, 03:19 AM	#16
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,289	I'll offer my guess. The flat side gives the machinist a "datum" to set in the fixture. A "batch" of forgings would be sent through the manufacturing process. The work order would route them through a number of operations on various machines. One op might be drilling and counterboring holes,such as for the trigger pin. Then on to the next op. At each op, likely it would be gauged or inspected. It could be rejected at any stage. In my experience, we would notch them with a cutoff wheel and paint red dykem on them to ID them as scrap, Then a non-conformance report would be filled out. Modifications or prototype parts might pass through a "low volume" area.

August 16, 2023, 12:33 PM	#17
stuckinthe60s Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2017 Location: Va., Ct., Mo.. Posts: 878	best place I found is here. these guys know their stuff. good luck............... https://oldguns.net/index.php __________________ Retired Military Aviation Former Member Navy Shooting Team Distinguished Pistol Shot,NRA Shotgun/Pistol Instructor NSSA All American, Skeet/Trap Range Owner

August 16, 2023, 06:56 PM	#18
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	Could it be a National Ordinance 1903A3 receiver ... I have one . I have glaucoma and can't see the photo's very well ... any markings ? Gary

August 18, 2023, 03:29 PM	#19
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	It looks like one of the 1901 prototypes from before the safety lug clearance cut was added, except for the flat and the hole through it toward the front (threaded?). I'm guessing HiBC got it right. That's most likely a jig or fixturing tool. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle