Optics - it's between two? - Page 2

mitranoc · November 22, 2012, 08:48 AM

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I think those two are one inch tubes aren't they? Not 30mm...

Yes those are both 20mm

madcratebuilder · November 22, 2012, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailskidrive

I think those two are one inch tubes aren't they? Not 30mm..

Yup, both are 1" tubes.

The Viper PST is 30mm.

In hind sight I wish I had bought a Viper PST the first time, but being the cheap bastage I am I wasted time and money before I got there. The Weaver-Nikon-Burris 1-4's are all around $250-300. The PST is $475 and worth it.

mitranoc · November 22, 2012, 08:52 AM

Change of plan. Found a used EOtech XSP2 from a friend, and he's selling it to me for dirt cheap. Will be picking this up, as well as a 1-4x illuminated scope for hunting. Thinking the Vortex PST?

scsov509 · November 22, 2012, 12:14 PM

Quote:

I have the Burris XTR 1-4x24 on my 6.8SPC and it's a very good scope. In the same price range I'd also give serious consideration to the Weaver Tactical 1-5x24 for about $650. The only thing I don't like about the Burris is the warranty. The scope itself is covered under the usual lifetime warranty but the warranty for the electronics is only a few year.

I had a Burris XTS-135 die out on me a few years out of warranty where dot stopped working. I contacted Burris to see what a repair would cost, thinking of course it would probably be cheaper to just purchase something new. Burris said send it in and they'd take care of it regardless of the warranty, so I mailed it on a Thursday and had a NIB XTS-135 in hand within a week.

MarkCO · November 22, 2012, 02:38 PM

The Burris is a 30mm tube and it is a 1x. In a direct comaprison between the various 1x low end scopes, none were "true" 1x. Even the 1X red dots are not right at 1x. However, the Vortex and Burris were essentially the same and in practical application, you can not tell the difference.

There is a little edge distortion at close range (like inside 10 yards or so) with most 1x optics which some people confuse for the scope not being "true" 1x. Between the Vortex and Burris MTAC, the Vortex has a slight advanteg for long range precision due to the thinner reticle. But, that also gives an advantage to the MTAC being faster with brighter illumination.

sholling · November 23, 2012, 03:49 AM

After looking at an MTAC I contacted Burris and they confirmed to me that it is not a true 1x. If anything it looked closer to my the view of a 1.2-4x that I have laying around. The Weaver V3 and Burris XTR are about as close to true 1x as you're going to get.

MarkCO · November 23, 2012, 09:14 PM

So how come the MTAC is not true 1x and the XTR is, when they use the same internals...

sholling · November 24, 2012, 10:35 PM

Quote:

So how come the MTAC is not true 1x and the XTR is, when they use the same internals...

Just curious, where did you get that? The MTAC is 1/2 the price.

MarkCO · November 25, 2012, 09:29 AM

The MTAC is not US made, the XTR is US made...there is your price difference.

sailskidrive · November 25, 2012, 01:41 PM

I tried out my Viper PST on the SCAR this weekend and decided to bite the bullet and get the Vortex Razor 1.5-6. The eye relief on the ACOG leaves a lot to be desired.

While I can't really say anything bad about my former Burris MTAC, I would probably choose the Viper again as I like the reticle a little more.

Below, I can't fully extend the LOP on the SCARs stock to fit my frame with out compromising field of view in the ACOG.

mitranoc · November 25, 2012, 03:31 PM

Quote:

The MTAC is not US made, the XTR is US made...there is your price difference.

So between the two, is there a noticeable difference in performance, quality, fit & finish, etc.?

MarkCO · November 25, 2012, 06:10 PM

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So between the two (MTAC v. XTR), is there a noticeable difference in performance, quality, fit & finish, etc.?

I ran a 1-4 XTR for 2 years and have now run the MTAC for 2 years. My scores are higher now.

For high speed work, the MTAC is better since the reticle is less cluttered. Also, if you want to shoot the red dot, the MTAC is also better because the illumination is brighter and the actual illuminated surface is more center heavy. As for fit and finish of the optic, I would say they are about even. The glass on both is very good. I still don't think you can touch the MTAC until you get up around $1000 or so. I shoot somewhere in the range of 10K rounds a year on my match rifle, about half of that in match conditions tossing my rifle into barrels, flopping on the ground, hitting barricades and running splits in the range of .15 for probabably 4K of that. Never had an issue.

mitranoc · November 25, 2012, 07:29 PM

Good to know that I can save a little money and go with the MTAC

mitranoc · November 25, 2012, 07:55 PM

Very curious about the Leupold VX-R's as well? Similar price range..

MarkCO · November 25, 2012, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Very curious about the Leupold VX-R's as well? Similar price range..

Quality optic as well. For me, the reticle is too thin and picking up the holds at speed took too much time. The smaller target of the reticle, for illumination precludes shooting it like a speed dot. For pure precision target shooting, it might be a little better. For defense and hog hunting, not as good as the MTAC. Street price on the MTAC is probably $70 or so less than the VX-R.

mitranoc · November 25, 2012, 08:36 PM

Gotcha. Would the same apply to their Pig Plex model?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/194...-reticle-matte

MarkCO · November 25, 2012, 08:54 PM

Probably. But I must admit I only looked through the Pig reticle for like 10 seconds, indoors at SHOT.

The speed of the MTAC comes in part from the circles, which your eye wants to center. The wider thick stadia lines are okay when at the bench, but when you need speed, they are just not as fast.

The speed aspect of the MTAC is superior and I don't think you give anything up to the Leupold or Vortex that is measureable when precision is needed, unless you have a lot of time to settle in comfy like.

I use a Vortex PST on my Long Range sniper rig, but I only use that when I am going to be shooting past 600 yards and I have time to spare.

mitranoc · November 25, 2012, 09:14 PM

I'm going to check out the MTAC tomorrow at Gander Mountain. It seems that scope will suit my needs the best.

ronl · November 26, 2012, 09:31 AM

I just picked up a Horus Vision Talon 1000 1-4x24 and it is an excellent optic. True 1x, illumination, and a well thought out reticle make it a very comfortable optic to use up close. Put the target in the circle and fire. When cranked up, since it is a FFP optic, the H-50 reticle comes to life making holdover and windage extremely easy. It is, in my opinion, the best of all worlds. I prefer it to my EOtech, because of the versatility it adds in being able to engage targets out much further than the naked eye. (I need all the help I can get in that department).

November 22, 2012, 08:52 AM	#28
mitranoc Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2011 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 337	Change of plan. Found a used EOtech XSP2 from a friend, and he's selling it to me for dirt cheap. Will be picking this up, as well as a 1-4x illuminated scope for hunting. Thinking the Vortex PST? Last edited by mitranoc; November 22, 2012 at 09:53 AM.

November 22, 2012, 02:38 PM	#30
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,309	The Burris is a 30mm tube and it is a 1x. In a direct comaprison between the various 1x low end scopes, none were "true" 1x. Even the 1X red dots are not right at 1x. However, the Vortex and Burris were essentially the same and in practical application, you can not tell the difference. There is a little edge distortion at close range (like inside 10 yards or so) with most 1x optics which some people confuse for the scope not being "true" 1x. Between the Vortex and Burris MTAC, the Vortex has a slight advanteg for long range precision due to the thinner reticle. But, that also gives an advantage to the MTAC being faster with brighter illumination. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

November 23, 2012, 03:49 AM	#31
sholling Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 1999 Location: Hemet (middle of nowhere) California Posts: 4,261	After looking at an MTAC I contacted Burris and they confirmed to me that it is not a true 1x. If anything it looked closer to my the view of a 1.2-4x that I have laying around. The Weaver V3 and Burris XTR are about as close to true 1x as you're going to get. __________________ Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, California Rifle & Pistol Association, and the Second Amendment Foundation. Annual Member: Revolutionary War Veterans Association (Project Appleseed) and the Madison Society.

November 23, 2012, 09:14 PM	#32
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,309	So how come the MTAC is not true 1x and the XTR is, when they use the same internals... __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

November 25, 2012, 09:29 AM	#34
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,309	The MTAC is not US made, the XTR is US made...there is your price difference. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

November 25, 2012, 01:41 PM	#35
sailskidrive Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2008 Posts: 726	I tried out my Viper PST on the SCAR this weekend and decided to bite the bullet and get the Vortex Razor 1.5-6. The eye relief on the ACOG leaves a lot to be desired. While I can't really say anything bad about my former Burris MTAC, I would probably choose the Viper again as I like the reticle a little more. Below, I can't fully extend the LOP on the SCARs stock to fit my frame with out compromising field of view in the ACOG. __________________ SailSkiDrive Hk USP 45 Expert, USP 40, USP 9, SIG P226, S&W M&P9, Hk 4, Makarov, Desert Eagle 40, Beretta FS92 Centurion, Kimber TLEII 1911A1, Glock 22, SIG P225, 1943 Rem Rand 1911A1, S&W mod 64, Walther PPQ, SIG P229, Browning BDA 45 (SIG P220), Hk45, SIG P230

November 25, 2012, 07:29 PM	#38
mitranoc Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2011 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 337	Good to know that I can save a little money and go with the MTAC

November 25, 2012, 07:55 PM	#39
mitranoc Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2011 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 337	Very curious about the Leupold VX-R's as well? Similar price range.. Last edited by mitranoc; November 25, 2012 at 08:00 PM.

November 25, 2012, 08:36 PM	#41
mitranoc Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2011 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 337	Gotcha. Would the same apply to their Pig Plex model? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/194...-reticle-matte

November 25, 2012, 08:54 PM	#42
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,309	Probably. But I must admit I only looked through the Pig reticle for like 10 seconds, indoors at SHOT. The speed of the MTAC comes in part from the circles, which your eye wants to center. The wider thick stadia lines are okay when at the bench, but when you need speed, they are just not as fast. The speed aspect of the MTAC is superior and I don't think you give anything up to the Leupold or Vortex that is measureable when precision is needed, unless you have a lot of time to settle in comfy like. I use a Vortex PST on my Long Range sniper rig, but I only use that when I am going to be shooting past 600 yards and I have time to spare. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

November 25, 2012, 09:14 PM	#43
mitranoc Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2011 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 337	I'm going to check out the MTAC tomorrow at Gander Mountain. It seems that scope will suit my needs the best.

November 26, 2012, 09:31 AM	#44
ronl Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Posts: 1,100	I just picked up a Horus Vision Talon 1000 1-4x24 and it is an excellent optic. True 1x, illumination, and a well thought out reticle make it a very comfortable optic to use up close. Put the target in the circle and fire. When cranked up, since it is a FFP optic, the H-50 reticle comes to life making holdover and windage extremely easy. It is, in my opinion, the best of all worlds. I prefer it to my EOtech, because of the versatility it adds in being able to engage targets out much further than the naked eye. (I need all the help I can get in that department).