Why Can't Some Firearms Be Imported?

Jdougg92 · June 27, 2015, 11:33 AM

Yes, I know... I'm lazy. Sure I could find answers else where but my question is about a particular AR15.

I recently finished my first AR15 build. It's a Bushmaster ORC and i was lucky to stumble upon this German company that makes very nice accessories. They are called Hera Arms. I outfitted my rifle with a Hera Arms keymod handguard, vertical grip, pistol grip, and got magazines with the same matching pattern as the grips.

After I looked into the company and see they manufacture complete rifles and their AR15 receivers look very nice. So I contacted their exclusive distributor in the US: Lan World.

They informed me that no complete rifle nor even stripped receiver can be imported into the United States. Why is that the case especially if it is just a stripped lower?

**44 AMP** · June 27, 2015, 12:08 PM

Importation is controlled by several laws, but essentially, unless the Fed determines the gun has a "sporting purpose" (and meets some other requirements), it is banned from import.

AR's and other "assault weapon" style guns are not considered "sporting" arms by our govt. Despite the real world facts that they are tremendously popular and used in both hunting and sporting competition, the govt says no to imports.

The same identical gun, MADE IN THE USA is under a different set of rules, and is (mostly, so far) allowed.

The devil is in the details, and the laws are complex, and arcane in their twisted reasoning, but they are the laws, and we must live under them.

Jdougg92 · June 27, 2015, 12:14 PM

So if Hera Arms made a Hera Arms US branch and made the same rifles here it would be okay? Are handguns under the same scrutiny? If it was a AR pistol would it still be the same issue?

5.56RifleGuy · June 27, 2015, 12:40 PM

Pistols have different rules, and most likely would be allowed for import.

Model12Win · June 27, 2015, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Why Can't Some Firearms Be Imported?

Asking "why?" concerning gun laws is an exercise in futility.

johnwilliamson062 · June 27, 2015, 02:29 PM

Some politicians in Washington wanted to pass a law to show they were tough on guns and limiting mass murders or something equally unrelated to this issue. The US firearms industry lobbying groups came out in droves to fight this new law that would hurt their members. One of the crafty politicians realized they could pt forth a law importing restrictions of these evil mass murdering firearms and it would still appear they were doing something to fix the problem. The US industry lobbying groups realized import restrictions would help them, not hurt them, so the rubber stamped the legislation. Non-industry pro 2A groups that derive money from members also get money, advertising, assistance with other legislation, etc. from industry. There isn't much of a foreign arms manufacturing lobby and any publicity attaching them to a bill would probably be negative.

Much more concisely, import restrictions are low hanging fruit. Things that could never be banned can be import restricted relatively easily.

2damnold4this · June 27, 2015, 02:40 PM

The 1968 gun control act give the Executive the power to ban imports of firearms that it determines don't have a "sporting purpose." George H.W. Bush banned the import of several firearms (H&K 91, Galil, etc.). Clinton banned more and Obama has banned more.

T. O'Heir · June 27, 2015, 03:23 PM

Imported to where? AR-15's are controlled by the U.S. government under ITAR. However, from Europe, it's more about exporting than importing. The EU has extremely strict firearm related stuff export rules. Permits up the ying yang.

tirod · June 28, 2015, 07:29 AM

Hera has to get the German .gov's permission, and they are extremely anti proliferation. They don't like exporting arms as they believe it increases conflicts.

HK and others are having a hard time staying in business because of it. There have been a number of legal accusations and incidents recently as the German .gov tries to prosecute for one alleged act or another.

If Hera could finance a plant here and open it, then they could do more. It's not cheap, and the break even requires high volume - which is why most of the Euro makers do it bidding on our .gov contracts. It takes that level of thru put to keep a factory running.

There is also a currency exchange rate issue - there stuff isn't inexpensive, yet it doesn't do much more than look different at the functional level. That markets well for those who are building a boutique rifle, on the bullet launcher end of usefulness it's just more expense for almost no improvement. So only those aesthetically motivated to spend above and beyond are customers, which is a limited number in the AR world. A lot of others buy from lower priced makers and Hera isn't marketing to them.

It usually boils down to a simple question, can a business make profit? It takes a certain number of units a year selling to do it, Hera doesn't see that level of business yet. The barriers are high.

**44 AMP** · June 28, 2015, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Hera has to get the German .gov's permission, and they are extremely anti proliferation. They don't like exporting arms as they believe it increases conflicts.

Europeans are on a big "anti small arms proliferation" kick these days. Even their surplus ammo is being destroyed, (which also costs) instead of being sold (as it was in the old days) for actual profit...

But its not an entirely new attitude. The whole reason there is a SIG-Sauer is because of the Swiss laws that forbid SIG from directly exporting arms. (I understand this has since been changed, which is why we got all those neat K-31s etc) SIG had the designs, Sauer & Sohn had the legal means to make and export them (from Germany).

The 68 GCA gave the govt the authority and "sporting purposes" was the catchphrase. It was supported by the gunmakers at the time, they were sold on it as trade protection (a lot of cheap foreign guns were being imported at the time)...

The OTHER provisions of the GCA 68 were not as ..emphasized, until it became law, and of course, by then, it was too late.

The Walther PPK was banned, because of the arbitrary "combination of measurements" rule which the PPK failed by 1/4". NO PPKs! BAD! EVIL! PPK/S (ppk with 1/4" longer grip frame) OK, importable, has "sporting purpose/meets requirements!

Guns laws amaze me.

The administration has also used the authority to ban import of "assault weapons" various HKs and AK etc. based on cosmetic features. Those guns were soon modified to meet the letter of the law (replacing pistol grips with "thumbhole" stocks) and then imported. (That was the first Bush IIRC)

no, it doesn't make sense, but then it doesn't have to, its the government...

June 27, 2015, 12:08 PM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	Importation is controlled by several laws, but essentially, unless the Fed determines the gun has a "sporting purpose" (and meets some other requirements), it is banned from import. AR's and other "assault weapon" style guns are not considered "sporting" arms by our govt. Despite the real world facts that they are tremendously popular and used in both hunting and sporting competition, the govt says no to imports. The same identical gun, MADE IN THE USA is under a different set of rules, and is (mostly, so far) allowed. The devil is in the details, and the laws are complex, and arcane in their twisted reasoning, but they are the laws, and we must live under them. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

June 27, 2015, 12:40 PM	#4
5.56RifleGuy Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2010 Location: USA Posts: 1,212	Pistols have different rules, and most likely would be allowed for import. __________________ Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus

June 27, 2015, 03:23 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Imported to where? AR-15's are controlled by the U.S. government under ITAR. However, from Europe, it's more about exporting than importing. The EU has extremely strict firearm related stuff export rules. Permits up the ying yang. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 27, 2015, 12:14 PM	#3
Jdougg92 Member Join Date: June 25, 2014 Posts: 42	So if Hera Arms made a Hera Arms US branch and made the same rifles here it would be okay? Are handguns under the same scrutiny? If it was a AR pistol would it still be the same issue?

June 27, 2015, 02:29 PM	#6
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Some politicians in Washington wanted to pass a law to show they were tough on guns and limiting mass murders or something equally unrelated to this issue. The US firearms industry lobbying groups came out in droves to fight this new law that would hurt their members. One of the crafty politicians realized they could pt forth a law importing restrictions of these evil mass murdering firearms and it would still appear they were doing something to fix the problem. The US industry lobbying groups realized import restrictions would help them, not hurt them, so the rubber stamped the legislation. Non-industry pro 2A groups that derive money from members also get money, advertising, assistance with other legislation, etc. from industry. There isn't much of a foreign arms manufacturing lobby and any publicity attaching them to a bill would probably be negative. Much more concisely, import restrictions are low hanging fruit. Things that could never be banned can be import restricted relatively easily.

June 27, 2015, 02:40 PM	#7
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	The 1968 gun control act give the Executive the power to ban imports of firearms that it determines don't have a "sporting purpose." George H.W. Bush banned the import of several firearms (H&K 91, Galil, etc.). Clinton banned more and Obama has banned more.

June 28, 2015, 07:29 AM	#9
tirod Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1,672	Hera has to get the German .gov's permission, and they are extremely anti proliferation. They don't like exporting arms as they believe it increases conflicts. HK and others are having a hard time staying in business because of it. There have been a number of legal accusations and incidents recently as the German .gov tries to prosecute for one alleged act or another. If Hera could finance a plant here and open it, then they could do more. It's not cheap, and the break even requires high volume - which is why most of the Euro makers do it bidding on our .gov contracts. It takes that level of thru put to keep a factory running. There is also a currency exchange rate issue - there stuff isn't inexpensive, yet it doesn't do much more than look different at the functional level. That markets well for those who are building a boutique rifle, on the bullet launcher end of usefulness it's just more expense for almost no improvement. So only those aesthetically motivated to spend above and beyond are customers, which is a limited number in the AR world. A lot of others buy from lower priced makers and Hera isn't marketing to them. It usually boils down to a simple question, can a business make profit? It takes a certain number of units a year selling to do it, Hera doesn't see that level of business yet. The barriers are high.