New here... And got a problem.

Stormson · February 24, 2014, 11:46 AM

Howdy all...

New here, but have been reading for a long time. In fact I have started ready backwards from the last page to the first, in hopes of learning all I can (on pg 120 now.. Its taking awhile LOL).

So I have allot of experience with firearms in general, however it has been pretty limited with BP. Years ago my shooting buddy would come over every Saturday (had my own range then) and he was into it. Shot his '51 brasser quite a bit, and some cheap hawken knock off he had... But thats about it. Just a tangent here, but I have seen many here say that brass frames wont break... He eventually DID break his... The frame cracked from the bottom rear area of the cylinder, back towards the grip frame at a diagonal... Not sure what kind it was except that it was VERY cheap and this was in the late 90's. So, yeah, even with my limited experience, I have seen ONE example of this happening. Just thought you guys may want to know that.

Anyway... I wanted to get a BP revolver for a few reasons... COOLNESS factor being a big one!

So, I picked up a NIB, but pre-owned, Pietta '58 Remmi, with steal frame and 5.5' barrel... It is a Cabala's box, if that matters (dont think I could send it back to them being pre-owned?) SWEET little piece! I love this thing... Love everything about it LOL! Thing is it does have one serious problem that I thought I would ask you guys about before I stopped by the smithie with it...

Ok.. My cell phone pix REALLY suck, so Im gonna have to try and explain this as well as possible, even though I have yet to learn the proper names for all the parts.. Mainly because I cant actually take it apart and see what parts are what.

After taking off the trigger guard, there is the first BIG screw right? I think that holds the "hand" in place? At any rate, it is first big screw you encounter after removing the guard. In my example at least, this screw goes all the way up through the frame and into the cylinder recess. It looks like the screw may have stuck up a little TOO far on this one, and someone, and I get the feeling it was someone at the factory, hit it a few times (softly) with a file just to knock it down a bit. Doubt you can make it out, but it will be the first pic below (if i can get em to upload). The problem is that when they did this they messed up the very tip of the screw and it wont come out.. Thus I cant take the innards out for a complete tear down. I have some pretty decent screwdrivers that fit fairly well... But it wouldnt budge at ALL... In fact I eventually DID start to bugger up the head trying (second pic), and so I figured it was best to quit right there and bring this to you guys before I made things any worse.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! You guys are my BP heros, and I figure if ANYONE can help me save the gunsmith costs it would be you'll..

g.willikers · February 24, 2014, 12:28 PM

That large headed screw is holding the leaf spring in place.
It puts tension on the trigger/hammer and the cylinder bolt (the part that comes up through the frame and catches the notches of the rotating cylinder to line it up with the barrel).
It's not the hand. The hand extends up through the frame and rotates the cylinder. It attaches to the hammer.
Someone might have used locktite on it.
Or, worse, cross threaded it.
If it's locktite, mild heat usually will loosen it.
Or soaking it in acetone or bore cleaner.
If it's cross threaded, it's gonna' be trouble.
Here's a parts schematic for the Remington.
http://www.bghi.us/index.php?x=1858_dwg
There's a tool for removing stubborn screws available at auto tool sellers.
It uses centrifugal weights and a hammer to torque them out.

Hawg · February 24, 2014, 12:37 PM

That's the screw for the cylinder/bolt spring. An impact driver will work or if you don't have one you can try tapping a screwdriver handle with a hammer while trying to turn it. The gun needs to be securely mounted to do that tho. The threads will clean up as it comes out.

g.willikers · February 24, 2014, 01:02 PM

Aha, yes, it's called the hand held impact wrench driver.
There's one in my tool box, but danged if I could remember what it was called.
After a half hour of looking on the web, here's a picture and description:
http://kk.org/cooltools/archives/723

Stormson · February 24, 2014, 01:08 PM

Hmm.. Not sure why, but I dont see a "quote" button anywhere to reply individually...

g.willikers-

LOL.. Ya know, I KNEW that wasnt the hand from my smokeless revs... I have no IDEA I was thinking "hand"... Guess I should probably refrain from posting on the internet when I am out of coffee!

Dont think it was locktite.. It looks like the tip of the screw was mashed down (is that a technical term?

) when it was hit with a file..

Hawg Haggen-

IMPACT DRIVER! Bet that would get it out... Dont have one, but should get one and have around anyway. Could set up a vice and use wood blocks to hold the frame... I would be a little worried about ruining the head of this soft screw though?

g.willikers · February 24, 2014, 01:21 PM

The quote icon is on the tool bar, the second from the right.
It looks like a tiny page of text, colored yellow.
The powers to be like to make things challenging.
Just to keep us on our toes.
If the tip of the screw is indeed mashed, you'll have to unmash it, with a small file or the dreaded dremel.
Try to trim it down around the sides of the threads.
Or maybe grind it down to the surface of the frame. past the buggered part.
Good luck and let us know how it came out.

Stormson · February 24, 2014, 01:30 PM

Quote:

The quote icon is on the tool bar, the second from the right.
It looks like a tiny page of text, colored yellow.
The powers to be like to make things challenging.
Just to keep us on our toes.

Got it! Thanks g.willikers... Though, it really DOES seem strange doesnt it? Most forums have a way to quote right from your individual post, so that you know I am replying directly to you... Saves having to CC&P the post as well...(Scratches head) Huh.. Yeah, guess it would keep us on our toes though! LOL

Stormson · February 24, 2014, 01:35 PM

Quote:

If the tip of the screw is indeed mashed, you'll have to unmash it, with a small file or the dreaded dremel.
Try to trim it down around the sides of the threads.
Or maybe grind it down to the surface of the frame. past the buggered part.
Good luck and let us know how it came out.

Hmm.. Yup, I DO have a Dremel... Didnt think about using it though... Always hate to take any metal off of a revolver frame... Still, yeah, it doesnt seem to be THAT bad, so maybe if Im REAL careful I could grind out just enough of the screw without hitting the frame too much... Thanks, I think I will try that as soon as I can get to it... Will let ya know how it goes...

Stormson · March 5, 2014, 11:39 PM

Quote:

If the tip of the screw is indeed mashed, you'll have to unmash it, with a small file or the dreaded dremel.
Try to trim it down around the sides of the threads.
Or maybe grind it down to the surface of the frame. past the buggered part.
Good luck and let us know how it came out.

I finally GOT it!

Yup.. the dremel!!! I used it to just barely nip out around the end of the screw... As much as I could before I scared myself out of going any further LOL. Then, used it again last night to grind down one of my hollow grind bits that I was thinking might not be QUITE thin enough... Sure enough, between the two, I got her to come loose!

DD4lifeusmc · March 6, 2014, 12:39 AM

yep you will likely need a burr tip on the dremel take it easy.
grind a littlem then work the screw back and forth.
When enough metal has been removed the screw will work
it's way out.
If threads are damaged two relatively simple cures, one is retap same size,
and add loctite save a thread. It's like epoxy but with a special release agent.
Next is retap bigger and find a bigger screw.

And I can't find the quote icon either, I'll keep looking

Stormson · March 6, 2014, 01:03 AM

Quote:

And I can't find the quote icon either, I'll keep looking

Ya have to copy what ya want to quote... Then hit reply.. Then click on the quote icon in the text box.. its the second to last on the bottom row... VERY old school though, almost all forums have a quote button directly on each post so i can just click it to reply to your whole post...

Col. Mosby · March 7, 2014, 05:06 PM

Stormson,

Go to this YouTube video posted by Duelist1954:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui5uXl33n8g

It shows how to disassemble a 58 Remington. You will find a lot of valuable information watching any of Mike's videos.

Hope this helps you in the future.

enyaw · March 8, 2014, 10:38 AM

When removing something like the screw mentioned or stuck nipples ect.ect.ect. it's the downward preasure that is the acjilis heel. Can;t hold down hard enough and that buggers the screw .

Using a drill press with a screw driver tip in it and applying the down ward pressure with the drill press(turned off of course) Most any screw will come out.

Sometimes the need to give a steel to steel wack to help loosen can be done with a vise grip wrench on the screw driver tip. Gotta have something to grab a hold of to try to turn the thing out. Once it turns a little as it turns let the drill press go up some so the screw can raise out.

When screws come out hard it's the downward pressure where the weak point is and even where the "turn" is coming from. Screw drivers don't have much downward muscle or turning muscle either when it comes to stuck screws.

Most of the time using a drill press for the "down" pressure and the "T" handle on a nipple wrench(nipple wrench in the chuck of the drill press) any stuck nipple comes out.

Just using the "stuck nipple" as an example to explain this. "Stuck trigger/bolt spring screw" is akin to a stuck nipple. A screw driver tip on an extension doesn't have a handle so the "vise grip wrench" becomes a turning handle.

I've used this trick on more than a few stuck nipples to get peoples stuck ones out after they tried everything else they could thunk up.

If they were right there (brought the gun over versas sending it in the mail) when I did the nipples they would be flabbergasted at how the nipples came right out.

Stormson · March 8, 2014, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Stormson,

Go to this YouTube video posted by Duelist1954:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui5uXl33n8g

It shows how to disassemble a 58 Remington. You will find a lot of valuable information watching any of Mike's videos.

Hope this helps you in the future.

Oh yeah man! I was reading you guys and watching Mike on youtube before i even bought this puppy.. Buddy Of mine had a 1911 I wanted, but he JUST wouldnt budge, and I kept on thinking about what i had read here and seen on youtube... And the rest is history LOL! Like i said, all you guys are my BP heros!

Stormson · March 8, 2014, 10:22 PM

Quote:

If they were right there (brought the gun over versas sending it in the mail) when I did the nipples they would be flabbergasted at how the nipples came right out.

Man you really seem to know your stuff! Have learned allot of neat tricks from you so far... And this just backs up what someone else had said about getting a drill press. Its gonna take a LONG time for me to get to the level where you guys are... But I got time, and MAN it seems like Im gonna learn allot AND have allot of fun in the process!

February 24, 2014, 12:28 PM	#2
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	That large headed screw is holding the leaf spring in place. It puts tension on the trigger/hammer and the cylinder bolt (the part that comes up through the frame and catches the notches of the rotating cylinder to line it up with the barrel). It's not the hand. The hand extends up through the frame and rotates the cylinder. It attaches to the hammer. Someone might have used locktite on it. Or, worse, cross threaded it. If it's locktite, mild heat usually will loosen it. Or soaking it in acetone or bore cleaner. If it's cross threaded, it's gonna' be trouble. Here's a parts schematic for the Remington. http://www.bghi.us/index.php?x=1858_dwg There's a tool for removing stubborn screws available at auto tool sellers. It uses centrifugal weights and a hammer to torque them out. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” Last edited by g.willikers; February 24, 2014 at 12:35 PM.

February 24, 2014, 01:02 PM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Aha, yes, it's called the hand held impact wrench driver. There's one in my tool box, but danged if I could remember what it was called. After a half hour of looking on the web, here's a picture and description: http://kk.org/cooltools/archives/723 __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

February 24, 2014, 01:21 PM	#6
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	The quote icon is on the tool bar, the second from the right. It looks like a tiny page of text, colored yellow. The powers to be like to make things challenging. Just to keep us on our toes. If the tip of the screw is indeed mashed, you'll have to unmash it, with a small file or the dreaded dremel. Try to trim it down around the sides of the threads. Or maybe grind it down to the surface of the frame. past the buggered part. Good luck and let us know how it came out. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” Last edited by g.willikers; February 24, 2014 at 01:27 PM.

March 6, 2014, 12:39 AM	#10
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	buggered screw yep you will likely need a burr tip on the dremel take it easy. grind a littlem then work the screw back and forth. When enough metal has been removed the screw will work it's way out. If threads are damaged two relatively simple cures, one is retap same size, and add loctite save a thread. It's like epoxy but with a special release agent. Next is retap bigger and find a bigger screw. And I can't find the quote icon either, I'll keep looking

March 7, 2014, 05:06 PM	#12
Col. Mosby Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Location: Edinburg, Va. Posts: 74	Cleaning 58 Remington Stormson, Go to this YouTube video posted by Duelist1954: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui5uXl33n8g It shows how to disassemble a 58 Remington. You will find a lot of valuable information watching any of Mike's videos. Hope this helps you in the future.

February 24, 2014, 12:37 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	That's the screw for the cylinder/bolt spring. An impact driver will work or if you don't have one you can try tapping a screwdriver handle with a hammer while trying to turn it. The gun needs to be securely mounted to do that tho. The threads will clean up as it comes out.

February 24, 2014, 01:08 PM	#5
Stormson Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2014 Location: Mountains of SouthWest VA. Posts: 193	Hmm.. Not sure why, but I dont see a "quote" button anywhere to reply individually... g.willikers- LOL.. Ya know, I KNEW that wasnt the hand from my smokeless revs... I have no IDEA I was thinking "hand"... Guess I should probably refrain from posting on the internet when I am out of coffee! Dont think it was locktite.. It looks like the tip of the screw was mashed down (is that a technical term? ) when it was hit with a file.. Hawg Haggen- IMPACT DRIVER! Bet that would get it out... Dont have one, but should get one and have around anyway. Could set up a vice and use wood blocks to hold the frame... I would be a little worried about ruining the head of this soft screw though?

March 8, 2014, 10:38 AM	#13
enyaw Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2008 Posts: 134	When removing something like the screw mentioned or stuck nipples ect.ect.ect. it's the downward preasure that is the acjilis heel. Can;t hold down hard enough and that buggers the screw . Using a drill press with a screw driver tip in it and applying the down ward pressure with the drill press(turned off of course) Most any screw will come out. Sometimes the need to give a steel to steel wack to help loosen can be done with a vise grip wrench on the screw driver tip. Gotta have something to grab a hold of to try to turn the thing out. Once it turns a little as it turns let the drill press go up some so the screw can raise out. When screws come out hard it's the downward pressure where the weak point is and even where the "turn" is coming from. Screw drivers don't have much downward muscle or turning muscle either when it comes to stuck screws. Most of the time using a drill press for the "down" pressure and the "T" handle on a nipple wrench(nipple wrench in the chuck of the drill press) any stuck nipple comes out. Just using the "stuck nipple" as an example to explain this. "Stuck trigger/bolt spring screw" is akin to a stuck nipple. A screw driver tip on an extension doesn't have a handle so the "vise grip wrench" becomes a turning handle. I've used this trick on more than a few stuck nipples to get peoples stuck ones out after they tried everything else they could thunk up. If they were right there (brought the gun over versas sending it in the mail) when I did the nipples they would be flabbergasted at how the nipples came right out.

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