SAFETY RECALL: Caracal "C" Unfixable. New Recall Information Within.

RedBowTies88 · September 9, 2013, 11:57 AM

In case any owners here have yet to see the news.

http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2...tols-recalled/

In regards to every "C" model pistol they've ever produced.

"The safety issue(s) with the Caracal C cannot be fixed according to information released by the company. No guns will be repaired and/or repaired to the purchaser. Caracal is offering a full refund of the original purchase price or vouchers for other Caracal products."

TunnelRat · September 9, 2013, 12:19 PM

You should add something to the title to indicate that this is new information in regards to the recall.

As to the information itself, wow. I have never heard of a recall like this where the manufacturer states there is no possible fix and all firearms must be returned. Idk how a company recovers from news like this.

MLeake · September 9, 2013, 12:33 PM

Posts from a Pakistani member, in a thread closed as drive-by for lack of OP commentary, linked to other fora with threads on shooters who received concussions and facial injuries when slides broke on their Caracal pistols.

Accompanying photos showed intact barrels and frames, so damage did not appear to result from overcharged rounds, but looked more like slide failures.

SHE3PDOG · September 9, 2013, 12:38 PM

I was seriously considering getting one of these, but decided against it because of how new and untested they are. I suppose I made the right choice. The product seems like a good concept, so I hope they can recover from this.

Tactical Jackalope · September 9, 2013, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Posts from a Pakistani member, in a thread closed as drive-by for lack of OP commentary, linked to other fora with threads on shooters who received concussions and facial injuries when slides broke on their Caracal pistols.

Accompanying photos showed intact barrels and frames, so damage did not appear to result from overcharged rounds, but looked more like slide failures.

Wow, that is scary. There's no recovering from that carelessness. Most gun manufacturers that have had recalls, were minor parts. Caracal just let out a major mistake with guns that cause catastrophic failures.

TunnelRat · September 9, 2013, 01:04 PM

This is a bit of egg in the face to the firearms media industry as well. After its Shot Show premier people were raving about these pistols. From hero to zero in a relatively short amount of time.

**Tom Servo** · September 9, 2013, 01:14 PM

Quote:

After its Shot Show premier people were raving about these pistols.

Well, they were good shooters, and they appeared to be reliable at the time.

That said, this is going to be a huge monetary layout for them, and I don't know how long it will take market perception of the brand to recover.

Tactical Jackalope · September 9, 2013, 01:17 PM

Quote:

don't know how long it will take market perception of the brand to recover.

Well seeing as bad news seems to spread so much better than good news, I think it will be a really long time to never for most people. A RSA on one brand shut people away from it, imagine catastrophic failures that result in injuries.

TunnelRat · September 9, 2013, 01:45 PM

If you notice on that article there is a link at the bottom to information about Caracal's new line of pistols:

http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2...s-pistol-line/

Very similar with some cosmetic differences and an obvious change to the names (they didn't want to draw connection to the flawed originals?). I like how this article mentions "improved safety units". By that I assume they mean ones that actually work?

I actually thought they might be pretty neat pistols after a few years of good reports behind them. Maybe they can still recover, but I have some doubts.

zincwarrior · September 9, 2013, 01:50 PM

I would never buy an item from a company that started out product like this. There are too many reliable OEMs in the market. Having one that could potentially put me in the hospital is not "a competitive advantage."

lee n. field · September 9, 2013, 01:58 PM

Quote:

As to the information itself, wow. I have never heard of a recall like this where the manufacturer states there is no possible fix and all firearms must be returned. Idk how a company recovers from news like this.

Vektor (a South African manufacturer) did that. That was decades ago.

gav1230 · September 9, 2013, 02:21 PM

Ouch. I was actually interested in those guns. I can't see them recovering financially after this.

Coach Z · September 9, 2013, 02:37 PM

I was a fan of the designer and sawthis as an evolution of the steyr that I had. I'd really wanted a caracal. Oh well guess I'm better off without it.

I too am very curious to see how the company fares in the modern age of instant information and the backlash they are likely to face.

James K · September 9, 2013, 02:52 PM

If I had one, I would hang onto it as a curiosity just because I have a thing for clunkers. Those would not be the first auto pistols to have slide/bolt breakage. It happened with some after market slides for the 1911 and with bolts in a few C-96 Mausers. And a shooter who forgot to install the key in the old dual link Colts could get a rather nasty reminder of his error.

Jim

ShipWreck · September 9, 2013, 02:58 PM

Quote:

If I had one, I would hang onto it as a curiosity just because I have a thing for clunkers. Those would not be the first auto pistols to have slide/bolt breakage. It happened with some after market slides for the 1911 and with bolts in a few C-96 Mausers. And a shooter who forgot to install the key in the old dual link Colts could get a rather nasty reminder of his error.

Yea, in 20 years - it might make for an interesting piece... Good idea.

Fishbed77 · September 9, 2013, 03:20 PM

Quote:

As to the information itself, wow. I have never heard of a recall like this where the manufacturer states there is no possible fix and all firearms must be returned.

As mentioned earlier, the Vector CP1 was one such pistol. They were recalled completely back in 2000, with refunds paid to owners. I wonder if these Caracal Cs will be collector items one day?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vektor_CP1

Personally, I never had an interest in these Caracal pistols due to the fact that there were other similar (but superior and more proven) designs available when they came out (such as the Walther PPQ, S&W M&P, and FN pistols).

RBid · September 9, 2013, 05:47 PM

Recalls happen. IF they can survive this and get moving in the US market, I think their 'C' size frame has the potential to be the G19 killer. It's basically a hybrid PPQ + G19. Again, if they can work through this.

MLeake · September 9, 2013, 05:49 PM

I see it as more of a Steyr hybrid. I have not heard of this happening with Steyr pistols, though.

(IIRC, same engineer designed G19, Steyr, and Caracal)

**Frank Ettin** · September 9, 2013, 05:54 PM

Too bad. Saw them a few years ago at SHOT and thought the ergonomics were very good.

Uncle Malice · September 9, 2013, 05:58 PM

WOW. That's interesting. I heard that one of the primary designers of the Glock was also behind Caracal(not sure if there's any truth to that)... so I would have thought it was a robust design. It was certainly interesting and I would have liked to give one a try but never found one at a local shop and wasn't confident enough to just order one online.

Seems to me, the only way to recover from something like this would be to actually change the company name... caracal is going to be forever tarnished, I think.

cmdc · September 9, 2013, 06:10 PM

That really bites. I have an F that was recalled and replaced. I also have a C. Really like the guns. The new ones look interesting. I'll give em another shot.

**Tom Servo** · September 9, 2013, 06:14 PM

Quote:

I heard that one of the primary designers of the Glock was also behind Caracal

It was Wilhelm Bubits, who designed the Steyr M and S pistols. He worked for Glock for a time, but I don't think he was behind the actual design.

HKGuns · September 9, 2013, 08:32 PM

I can't say I am the least bit surprised, nor do I understand the desire to throw money away on a company with little to no established track record. On top of that factor in where they are based and it all added up to a big zero interest from me.

I politely kept my mouth shut during all of the gushing over the Arabic swooped gLoCk and was proven correct.

TXAZ · September 9, 2013, 09:05 PM

So is there any Official info on the specific problem from the manufacturer?

Psychedelic Bang · September 9, 2013, 09:15 PM

I don't think they can work through this. Even with a rebrand it would be difficult. The world is a very funny place, and a gun recall like this is not easily forgotten. We are not talking about Coke Zero, or Pepsi Tab.. We are talking about a weapon with such an extreme fault that each one in existence is being declared "no fix."

Bad, bad, news...

I looked at their website several times over the last few months. I might have considered a product from them in the future. Not any more. I wouldn't trust anything in their line.

September 9, 2013, 11:57 AM	#1
RedBowTies88 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Location: 609 NJ Posts: 705	SAFETY RECALL: Caracal "C" Unfixable. New Recall Information Within. In case any owners here have yet to see the news. http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2...tols-recalled/ In regards to every "C" model pistol they've ever produced. "The safety issue(s) with the Caracal C cannot be fixed according to information released by the company. No guns will be repaired and/or repaired to the purchaser. Caracal is offering a full refund of the original purchase price or vouchers for other Caracal products." __________________ "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 21. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.) Last edited by RedBowTies88; September 9, 2013 at 12:28 PM.

September 9, 2013, 12:19 PM	#2
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	You should add something to the title to indicate that this is new information in regards to the recall. As to the information itself, wow. I have never heard of a recall like this where the manufacturer states there is no possible fix and all firearms must be returned. Idk how a company recovers from news like this. __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

September 9, 2013, 12:38 PM	#4
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	I was seriously considering getting one of these, but decided against it because of how new and untested they are. I suppose I made the right choice. The product seems like a good concept, so I hope they can recover from this. __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms

September 9, 2013, 01:04 PM	#6
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	This is a bit of egg in the face to the firearms media industry as well. After its Shot Show premier people were raving about these pistols. From hero to zero in a relatively short amount of time. __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

September 9, 2013, 01:45 PM	#9
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	If you notice on that article there is a link at the bottom to information about Caracal's new line of pistols: http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2...s-pistol-line/ Very similar with some cosmetic differences and an obvious change to the names (they didn't want to draw connection to the flawed originals?). I like how this article mentions "improved safety units". By that I assume they mean ones that actually work? I actually thought they might be pretty neat pistols after a few years of good reports behind them. Maybe they can still recover, but I have some doubts. __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

September 9, 2013, 12:33 PM	#3
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Posts from a Pakistani member, in a thread closed as drive-by for lack of OP commentary, linked to other fora with threads on shooters who received concussions and facial injuries when slides broke on their Caracal pistols. Accompanying photos showed intact barrels and frames, so damage did not appear to result from overcharged rounds, but looked more like slide failures.

September 9, 2013, 01:50 PM	#10
zincwarrior Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex Posts: 2,259	I would never buy an item from a company that started out product like this. There are too many reliable OEMs in the market. Having one that could potentially put me in the hospital is not "a competitive advantage."

September 9, 2013, 02:21 PM	#12
gav1230 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2013 Posts: 148	Ouch. I was actually interested in those guns. I can't see them recovering financially after this.

September 9, 2013, 02:37 PM	#13
Coach Z Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2011 Location: RI Posts: 795	Bummer I was a fan of the designer and sawthis as an evolution of the steyr that I had. I'd really wanted a caracal. Oh well guess I'm better off without it. I too am very curious to see how the company fares in the modern age of instant information and the backlash they are likely to face. __________________ Love my guns

September 9, 2013, 02:52 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	If I had one, I would hang onto it as a curiosity just because I have a thing for clunkers. Those would not be the first auto pistols to have slide/bolt breakage. It happened with some after market slides for the 1911 and with bolts in a few C-96 Mausers. And a shooter who forgot to install the key in the old dual link Colts could get a rather nasty reminder of his error. Jim

September 9, 2013, 05:47 PM	#17
RBid Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2012 Posts: 1,059	Caracal "C" Unfixable. New Recall Inforation Within. Recalls happen. IF they can survive this and get moving in the US market, I think their 'C' size frame has the potential to be the G19 killer. It's basically a hybrid PPQ + G19. Again, if they can work through this.

September 9, 2013, 05:49 PM	#18
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	I see it as more of a Steyr hybrid. I have not heard of this happening with Steyr pistols, though. (IIRC, same engineer designed G19, Steyr, and Caracal)

September 9, 2013, 05:54 PM	#19
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	Caracal "C" Unfixable. New Recall Inforation Within. Too bad. Saw them a few years ago at SHOT and thought the ergonomics were very good.

September 9, 2013, 05:58 PM	#20
Uncle Malice Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2009 Location: Phoenix Posts: 4,580	WOW. That's interesting. I heard that one of the primary designers of the Glock was also behind Caracal(not sure if there's any truth to that)... so I would have thought it was a robust design. It was certainly interesting and I would have liked to give one a try but never found one at a local shop and wasn't confident enough to just order one online. Seems to me, the only way to recover from something like this would be to actually change the company name... caracal is going to be forever tarnished, I think. __________________ Handguns: 2x Glock 19.4 \| Glock 26.4 \| HK USP 9 \| HK P2000 \| HK VP9 SK \| HK P30 \| CZ Shadow 2 \| CZ P-10 C \| CZ P-07 \| CZP-01 \| S&W 360PD Rifles: DDM4 \| SGL 21 \| SAM7K \| Draco \| PSA PDW SBR \| ASA Side-Charger SBR \| CZ Scorpion K SBR \| Aero M4E1 9" 300blk SBR \| Angstadt Jack9 SBR \| Savage Mark II FV-SR Shotguns: Mossberg 590A1 20" SP \| Mossberg Shockwave

September 9, 2013, 06:10 PM	#21
cmdc Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2010 Location: Florida Gulf Coast Posts: 721	That really bites. I have an F that was recalled and replaced. I also have a C. Really like the guns. The new ones look interesting. I'll give em another shot.

September 9, 2013, 08:32 PM	#23
HKGuns Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2005 Location: Bora Bora Posts: 932	Caracal "C" Unfixable. New Recall Inforation Within. I can't say I am the least bit surprised, nor do I understand the desire to throw money away on a company with little to no established track record. On top of that factor in where they are based and it all added up to a big zero interest from me. I politely kept my mouth shut during all of the gushing over the Arabic swooped gLoCk and was proven correct.

September 9, 2013, 09:05 PM	#24
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	So is there any Official info on the specific problem from the manufacturer? __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

September 9, 2013, 09:15 PM	#25
Psychedelic Bang Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2009 Location: FL USA Posts: 332	I don't think they can work through this. Even with a rebrand it would be difficult. The world is a very funny place, and a gun recall like this is not easily forgotten. We are not talking about Coke Zero, or Pepsi Tab.. We are talking about a weapon with such an extreme fault that each one in existence is being declared "no fix." Bad, bad, news... I looked at their website several times over the last few months. I might have considered a product from them in the future. Not any more. I wouldn't trust anything in their line. __________________ "Was always kinda partial to Roy Rogers actually. I really like those sequined shirts..."