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Old July 13, 2015, 10:12 PM   #1
pax
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Lesson from an old guy

Roughly three or four years after I first began learning to shoot, I met an older gentleman – Jim – who had a profound influence on my shooting development. Jim bounced into the room on the first day of a shooting class I was taking, and he was loudly enthusiastic about another class he’d taken just a week or two before we met. “That class was amazing!” Jim said, and went on to tell the group of us standing there all about that other class: who the instructor was, what he taught and why he taught it, how he’d shown this old guy a new technique he’d never seen before. Jim was very excited about the new technique, and told me that he thought it might save a few lives.

At the time, Jim was 72 years old. He’d also been around guns his entire life, from the time when he was very small. Not only that, he also held several regional and even national titles in competition shooting. He held instructor credentials in several different disciplines, and had worked as a law enforcement trainer for a number of years. He had even been the victor in a number of gunfights during his law enforcement career. If anyone could claim they knew so much that taking a class was just a waste of his time and money, Jim would be that guy.

Despite all that, Jim also believed – strongly! – that life was full of new things to learn. So he kept exploring new thoughts, new ways of doing things with a firearm, and kept taking classes from other people right up until his untimely death in a car accident at age 76.

Whenever I hear an old guy saying he doesn’t need to take a class because he “grew up around guns,” I also hear Jim’s voice telling us what he’d learned the week before.

When I meet a newly-minted instructor who simply won’t ask any questions where others might hear because she thinks she’ll lose her students’ respect if she takes the learner’s role, I think of Jim and the great respect his students had for him.

When someone tells me they already know as much as they need to know about using firearms for self-defense, I think of Jim and his eager enthusiasm for learning more or better ways to save innocent lives.

Jim’s last name was Cirillo. It’s safe to say, Jim Cirillo knew a thing or two about guns. And if that man, with his background and at that stage of his life, thought there were still new things he could learn, what does that say about folks who think they already know all that stuff and don't need anyone else to teach them anything?

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Old July 13, 2015, 10:36 PM   #2
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For those who don't recognize the name, there's this (cribbed from the Jim Cirillo memorial page on Facebook):

Quote:
Jim Cirillo was one of the finest and most sought-after defensive firearms trainers in the world. He became a New York City police officer in 1954 and joined the famed NYPD Stakeout Squad in the 1970s. While on the squad, Cirillo was involved in 17 shootouts—and won them all. After 23 years, he retired from the NYPD and became the chief firearms training instructor for U.S. Customs, Region II, based in the World Trade Center. In 1981, he accepted a position with the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) in Georgia. While at FLETC, Cirillo earned a national reputation as a firearms instructor among the police community. After a back injury forced him to retire from law enforcement in 1991, Cirillo traveled extensively giving combat shooting courses.

Jim Cirillo was killed in a car accident in 2007.

Jim was the author of the Paladin book Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights , and appeared in two Paladin videos, Jim Cirillo: Modern-Day Gunfighter and Secrets of a Master Gunfighter . In addition, Cirillo was the subject of the book Jim Cirillo's Tales of the Stakeout Squad , which was published posthumously after his sudden death in 2007.
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Old July 13, 2015, 10:41 PM   #3
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Those that don't know who Jim Cirillo is...are the folks that you are talking about...know-it-all's.
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Old July 13, 2015, 11:20 PM   #4
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Pax,

I had the privilege to have Jim in a Sub-gun class i taught at Front Sight. I was actually kind of nervous to teach a class with him sitting in one of the seats.

Long story, short. He was one of the most humble gentleman ive ever met. After the class we sat around and swapped stories. What a GREAT GUY
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Old July 14, 2015, 08:29 AM   #5
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I've never met Mr. Cirillo but I agree with him a lot, or should I say 100%.

I've been around shooting a long time, Formaly a firearms instructor for nearly 40 years since I took my first formal class, the FBI's LE Firearms Instructor's class. Followed by the USAMU's Sniper class (at that time a Sniper's Instructor Class. The NGMTU's coaches clinic. NRA's LE Rifle Instructors Class, Shotgun and Smallbore Rifle/Pistol for 4-H. and the CMP's Master Instructor Course.

I think one of the best instructors courses I've taken wasn't shooting related. Alaska Police Standards Council requires one attend the FBI's Instructor Development School before they are Certified to teach any LE class, shooting or otherwise. The Instructors Development doesn't tell you much about firearms training, but it shows you how to get through to the student, how to present your material and keep the students involved and excited about learning. That's one course I'd like to attend again.

The CMP's MI Course was taught by none other then Gary Anderson. That gentlemen knows rifle shooting, besides several World and Olympic Gold Medals he set a record in ISU 300 Meter Rifle in the late 60s that has never been broken.

Mr. Anderson taught me something every firearms instructor should paste to his hat and never forget. THERE ARE NO HOPELESS SHOOTERS.

I've always attend every instructors course I can. And I've taken several more then once. For example the CMP/Army/NG, have a Small Arms Firing Schools before just about all major competitions. I attend them every chance I get. I took my first SMFS about 77-78 I think, and I even instructed them, but I still attend every one I can, and, it seems every time I attend I learn something new.

Even one who had earned the Distinguished Rifle Badge learns something else when he/she attends the SAFS.

Also instructors (if they are opened minded) can learn from their students. Over the years I've picked up bits and tricks from my students that I add to my other classes.

A good example of learning from students: As I've said, I've taught the SAFS', Ive taught several sniper schools for the Guard, Army, and LE and still am a certified LE Rifle Instructor.

I don't believe in teaching spouses. But my wife wanted me to teach her long range precision rifle shooting to improve her hunting. Instead I sent her to the Gunwerks LRS in Burlington WY. You'd be surprised the stuff I learned from my wife, a student from some other school.

Old shooter (which I am) new shooter, instructor or student, I will guarantee three things are going to happen when you take a course. 1: you will have fun, 2: you will learn something, 3: You will make great people.

There are good instructors, and there are bad instructors, I've seen both, I've also learned from both. Yes, you can pick up tidbits of information from even the worse instructor.

During the autumn of my life I'm still learning, I'm still having fun and I'm still meeting great people.

In short Mr. Cirillo was 100% correct, thanks for reminding us.
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Old July 14, 2015, 05:46 PM   #6
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Thanks for sharing your story Pax. Jim and his good work still live on in the force of his friends and students.
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Old July 15, 2015, 11:28 AM   #7
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I seem to learn something new with each and every range trip, let alone training.....

Seems like when you can't or won't learn anything new to you, it's probably time to get out of guns altogether.

You were so fortunate to get training from one of the best. And then there are those like my original CPL instructor, who was much the opposite.
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Old July 15, 2015, 11:58 AM   #8
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"Sometimes an Instructor, ALWAYS a student " is a good motto for those of us that teach.

Weapons craft is a evolutionary process. We dont do things the way my Granddad did in WWII...nor my Dad in Vietnam. My Son wont do things the way i do.

As we get a better understanding of the way the Human body acts and reacts the techniques MUST change to take advantage of that.

We must also be mindful that it is best done by EVOLUTION not REVOLUTION. Small incremental steps that fine tune a student lead to better results then attempting to radically change everything all at once.

Pax, keep up the good work. Its noticed!!!
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Old July 16, 2015, 11:51 AM   #9
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I wonder if the fact that he was so willing to learn something new has anything to do with him becoming such an expert in his field. Funny how people who "know it all" are usually only remarkable in their very narrow circle of shooting buddies.
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Old July 16, 2015, 04:49 PM   #10
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The sum total of what I learned from a number of years of higher education:

1. You don't know everything. In fact, you actually know very little.
2. There is somebody who is an expert.
3. Want to learn/know more? Go find the expert or find where they recorded their knowledge.

Good reminder pax.
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