Revolver vs. Auto for home defense

[38super]

Some misconceptions here:

1. Revolvers do jam, and if it does, you will not be able to clear it without tools.

2. Muzzle flash from revolvers is more severe than a pistol, and will cause temporarily blindness before the rods in your eye reset. (that is using it at night)

[pax]

The issue I see with weaker hands is one of being able to actuate a slide.

I have been working as an assistant instructor and then as an instructor at a fairly busy shooting school for approximately 6 years now. In all of that time, I have still never met a healthy adult who could not be taught to rack the slide of a semi-automatic pistol. (Please do note the word "healthy" in that sentence: arthritis and related conditions do take their toll.)

Generally, we show people the easy way to rack the slide and they're immediately able to do it. Some need to be shown more than once and take a bit longer to understand the technique. It's usually a 30-second job to teach them, although sometimes it's a 10-minute job. It never takes longer than that (although it might feel longer to a student who is struggling to learn). Because racking a slide isn't about strength, but simply about technique, I've never met any healthy adult, male or female, who couldn't be taught how to rack the slide.

During that same time frame, I have met several people who simply did not have the finger strength to pull the trigger of a DA revolver even once. And I have lost track of the number of people who did not have the finger strength to pull that DA trigger while keeping the muzzle on target. Pulling a DA trigger is not a matter of technique -- it's pure strength, and not everyone has the strength to manage it or to manage it smoothly.

If hand strength is really a concern, get your beginner an appropriately sized semi-auto, one that fits their hands and has soft springs. And teach them the easy way to rack the slide.

pax

[rodwhaincamo]

For me it seems I'm much more accurate with an auto when fast firing. And it seems to me that an auto is easy enough. A friend wants a handgun for HD and figued an auto is the way for him to go since he has a highly intelligent/curious little boy. Feels he can keep his auto handy with the magazine seperate for safety. Makes some sense from that perspective I guess.

[38super]

Your eye blindspot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_spot_(vision)

Using Rod's Regent technique shooting at night.
http://regentsprep.org/Regents/physi...es/sensing.htm

You do not want want to use a gun that has a huge muzzle flash (no barrels shorter than 4 inch) and the best ammo for night use is one that flashes RED. Not white, yellow or orange, so test your ammo through your SD gun at night.

That way you do not increase the time delay between rods reset and increase your blindspot.

[NRAhab]

It's not technically muzzle flash, it's the flash from the cylinder gap. Saying that "revolvers have more muzzle flash" than auto pistols ignores a whole raft of variables in both pistols including barrel length, ammo type, etc. I think that instead of worrying about the color of my muzzle flash, I should probably spend that time practicing my actual shooting skills.

[38super]

The colour of the flash will depend how long it will take your eyes reset. Sorry, you are wrong. You are technically right about muzzle flash though.

[38super]

I challenge you to fire a THV round and tell me the time it takes before you can fire the second shot on a target? 3 seconds, maybe more if shot with a revolver. I am sorry, but please do not pass comments if you know nothing about the topic. No offence is intended.

[NRAhab]

I'm guessing you're not familiar with the concept of "hammers" which is two shots fired with one sight picture? They teach it at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, and pretty much every other shooting school worth their beans.

[38super]

You actually mean trigger reset my man

[38super]

Clint Smith would laugh at you I am sad to say

[38super]

FYI, hammer is a term used for controlled pair or double tap with seeing your target picture. No way can do with 3 seconds delay

[NRAhab]

What? No, I don't mean trigger reset. In fact, I have no idea how trigger reset figures into the concept of night shooting. As far as hammers go, that's my point, actually. My first two shots are going to show up about 0.25 seconds apart, regardless of what the muzzle flash does to my night vision. So yeah, after that first shot from a revolver, I can shoot again before 3 seconds are up.

Actually, I'm not sure how your links to articles about the blind spot in human vision have anything to do with flash blindness from bright lights, as they're not related other than they both involve the eyes.

But I can state with 100% certainty that the relative muzzle flash of your self defense ammo should be so low on your list of "tactical concerns" that I'm shocked we're having this conversation at all.

I'll say this: if you're worried about the effects of muzzle flash on your night vision, take Gunsite's 250 course, their Fighting Handgun course. It includes a night shoot and low light shooting, as does their carbine course. You know what happens when you shoot a .223 rifle at night? You get some spots on your vision. It's not pleasant, but it does not significantly interfere with your ability to fight.

In fact, if you're REALLY worried about muzzle flash, here's a better solution. Get a good tactical light. The backlight from that will wipe out your night vision anyway, so muzzle flash won't be a concern any more.

[38super]

Do you really want to push this? I will strip the floor with you.

[NRAhab]

If for no other reason than to satisfy my sheer morbid curiousity as to what you're going to say next, yes, please continue. At the very least I can turn it into a blog post tomorrow for Gun Nuts.

[38super]

You are ignorant my friend, obviously have not been in combat before.

[38super]

Shooting on a range without tachspsychia coming into affect means nothing. You are defiinately not a veteran, maybe a wannabe

[NRAhab]

Actually a hammer is not a controlled pair - a controlled pair is two shots with two sight pictures, one for each shot. A hammer is one flash sight picture and two very rapid shots.

But that's not the point. I'm just curious as to the rational behind the whole muzzle flash thing - I mean, I've actually shot guns at night before, and I don't recall the image artifacts to be that bad. Now, it'd be probably be worse if I was waking up at 0300, but that's the whole reason I keep a light next to my bed. I don't WANT to shoot in the dark, I want to be able to see well, so if I have a surefire pointed at my bedroom door, "night vision" isn't really part of the equation.

Did you mean: tachypsychia? Because if so, that has nothing to do with night vision, tachypsychia is more like the tunnel vision effect that people experience in stressful situations. Time dilation, etc.

Tachypsychia is a neurological condition that alters the perception of time, usually induced by physical exertion, drug use, or a traumatic event. It is sometimes incorrectly referred to by martial arts instructors and self defense experts as the Tachy Psyche effect. For someone affected by tachypsychia, time perceived by the individual either lengthens, making events appear to slow down, or contracts, objects appearing as moving in a speeding blur. It is believed that tachypsychia is induced by a combination of high levels of dopamine and norepinephrine, usually during periods of great physical stress and/or in violent confrontation.

[38super]

exactly, it increases your blind spots

[DeathRodent]

I leave my Taurus 4 inch .357 loaded with .38 special +p starfires as my "bedside" gun many nights.

I've had if for around 15 years and it works just fine.

Plus, it is stainless and I won't be upset if it gets scratched or taken away by the police (if I did ever have to use it in self defense).

I wouldn't feel the same about my Colt Python.

Then again some nights I have my Beretta 9000 as my bedside gun - I know they aren't popular but this gun shoots great for me and I got a great deal when I bought it.

With either gun its the person that will be the biggest deciding factor in what happens.

[38super]

you can control it by training correctly. Sul techniques re-enforces 360 degree awareness.

[NRAhab]

Originally Posted by 38super

exactly, it increases your blind spots

...which has nothing to do with muzzle flash. In fact, gunfight survivors who experienced tachypsychia often that they don't remember hearing the report of their weapon or seeing the muzzle flash from their weapon due to the effects of the adrenal gland opening the throttle to "11".

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but what exactly is the point you're trying to make? "Muzzle flash is bad"? Because if that's the case, then sure, muzzle flash is bad. But worrying about the impact of muzzle flash in your night vision is probably not the most, or second most, or third most, or even 231st most important thing you should be worried about.

[38super]

Muzzle flash is bad, it will impair your next shot. If you have ever been in a gunsfight, 1 or 3 seconds being blind is not a good thing if your target is moving.

[38super]

Rod's regent teaches you to look at your target as if you were squint to get a sight picture.

[NRAhab]

Okay. So your point is that 1, muzzle flash is bad (correct). Your second point is that you will go blind from muzzle flash from a common pistol for 1-3 seconds. You are incorrect. You can't really tapdance around it much more than that, but if you talk to people that have actually shot people in low/no-light conditions, while they do experience artifacts in their vision, it is generally not on the scale of 1-3 seconds of blindess.

Mind you, I'm talking about pistols and carbines here - if someone lights off a flashbang, a grenade, any kind of HE round in your general area then yes, you'll experience much more severe flash blindness.

However, if as a shooter you're concerned about visual impairment from muzzle flash during a low-light encounter in your home, then again I'd reiterate that you should get a good tactical light, or better yet "turn the lights on." I'm not too worried about "giving away my position" to a burglar or intruder, since I'm going to yelling "I have a gun and I'm calling the cops" at the top of my lungs over the alarm system anyway.

[38super]

So what are you going to do, use FBI technique, Harrries, neck technique or what ? What is a good tatical light ? You really have now idea