I'm Stumped: mangled 9mm cases

loach · August 31, 2002, 12:02 AM

I've loaded a few dozen rifle cartridges with no problem and have decided to try loaded 9mm Luger. The dies I got were second hand Lee Carbide dies and there was no paper insert on how to adjust the dies. For the sizing and expander dies, I've screwed them in until they just touch the shell holder and then another 1/4 turn. When I go to seat the bullet, though, I get a mangled case. Here are the specs:

9mm Luger once-fired A-merc brass.
Remington .355 124gr JHP
Lee turret press
Lee Carbide dies
I've not even tried charging the cases yet, I'm just experimenting with the dies.

The attached picture is a typical case after 'seating' a bullet. I have the seating die set pretty far out, figuring I'd work it in and adjust it later.

Does anyone have any ideas what the problem may be? I tried lightly lubing the case neck, but no dice.

I've noticed that some data lists 9mm as .354 and others as .355, perhaps this is part of the problem? Maybe weak brass?

Phil in Seattle · August 31, 2002, 01:28 AM

You need to screw your seating out die some. You have it screwed in so far that it is crimping before the case has run all the way up inside of the die, the crimp portion of the die is stopping the case from advancing while you are still raising the ram, this "smashes" the case.

Try unscrewing the seating die a bunch, put a case in your shell holder without a bullet, raise the ram completely, then slowly screw the die down until you feel it touch the case, at that point if you screw the die in just a bit further 1/8-1/4 turn sort of thing and that will probably be about where you need it if you want a crimp.

sricciardelli · August 31, 2002, 02:38 AM

Your first problem is the Amerc brass. It isn't worth a damn!

The second problem is taht you are screwing your dies down too far.

Sisco · August 31, 2002, 07:22 AM

9mm was the first caliber I reloaded, got the same results you're getting. Phil explained the solution very nicely.

**Mal H** · August 31, 2002, 08:17 AM

Agree with Phil and Steve.
1) Toss the A-merc

2) With the ram all the way down, adjust the sizing die until it just touches the shell holder. Don't screw it in that extra 1/4 turn. Don't worry about the amount of shell you don't size due to the added pressure when sizing and the die doesn't quite touch the shell holder. That is in the web area and it rarely needs resizing anyway. If it does (by measurement), then your previous loads were too hot for that case and it should be tossed.

3) Try seating the bullet in a separate operation using the instructions Phil gave. ([Edited - said it bassackwards the first time.] Seat first then move the seating ram out of the way when crimping.)

loach · August 31, 2002, 10:20 AM

That was it (the seating die was in too far). Thanks Phil, and everyone else too! After I adjusted the die properly, which took some doing, I have sucessfully loaded my first 9mm cartridges!

If you don't hear from me for a while, you'll know my next range session didn't go so well.....

-loach

tawakoni · August 31, 2002, 02:18 PM

Aluminum Blazer cases are more reloadable than that #@%$ A-MERC. (Don't use them either!) Put the A-MERC where some other reloader won't find them. I keep a pair of channel-locks on my bench for the sole purpose of crushing any A-MERC I find. It's my duty.

Best,

tawakoni

loach · August 31, 2002, 07:11 PM

The A-merc has been dutifully removed from bench.

I've got some Speer, Cor-bon and Winchester that I'll use instead. Anyone have an opinion of the Winchester? It's from the Wally World White-box range ammo. I can't imagine, considering the price, that it's much better than the A-merc.

tawakoni · August 31, 2002, 08:27 PM

The Winchester white-box will be just fine. The others you mentioned also.

I am a brass rat. My .45ACP is range brass and I reload about 1500 per week. Naturally, I have some favorite brands but A-MERC is the only brass case I won't/can't use.

Here's an interesting link from another forum:

http://www.upoa.org/Shoots/HardWay.htm

Do a search on TFL using the keyword 'amerc' or 'a-merc'. It's been discussed many times.

Best,

tawakoni

loach · September 1, 2002, 08:54 AM

Wow, you're right, A-merc brass has been the topic of conversation a lot. My bad for not searching first...

Looks like the rain is going to hold off for a while today, I should head to the range...

August 31, 2002, 02:38 AM	#3
sricciardelli Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: Montana Posts: 489	Your first problem is the Amerc brass. It isn't worth a damn! The second problem is taht you are screwing your dies down too far. __________________ http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

August 31, 2002, 07:22 AM	#4
Sisco Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Location: KS Posts: 1,558	9mm was the first caliber I reloaded, got the same results you're getting. Phil explained the solution very nicely. __________________ "I don't mind it when stupid people say stupid things. Stupid people should be encouraged to say stupid things, that way we always know who the stupid people are." ~ Ted Nugent http://www.awbansunset.com/awcountdown_sm.gif

August 31, 2002, 08:17 AM	#5
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	Agree with Phil and Steve. 1) Toss the A-merc 2) With the ram all the way down, adjust the sizing die until it just touches the shell holder. Don't screw it in that extra 1/4 turn. Don't worry about the amount of shell you don't size due to the added pressure when sizing and the die doesn't quite touch the shell holder. That is in the web area and it rarely needs resizing anyway. If it does (by measurement), then your previous loads were too hot for that case and it should be tossed. 3) Try seating the bullet in a separate operation using the instructions Phil gave. ([Edited - said it bassackwards the first time.] Seat first then move the seating ram out of the way when crimping.) Last edited by Mal H; August 31, 2002 at 11:43 AM.

August 31, 2002, 10:20 AM	#6
loach Member Join Date: February 20, 2002 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 38	Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! That was it (the seating die was in too far). Thanks Phil, and everyone else too! After I adjusted the die properly, which took some doing, I have sucessfully loaded my first 9mm cartridges! If you don't hear from me for a while, you'll know my next range session didn't go so well..... -loach

August 31, 2002, 01:28 AM	#2
Phil in Seattle Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Posts: 97	You need to screw your seating out die some. You have it screwed in so far that it is crimping before the case has run all the way up inside of the die, the crimp portion of the die is stopping the case from advancing while you are still raising the ram, this "smashes" the case. Try unscrewing the seating die a bunch, put a case in your shell holder without a bullet, raise the ram completely, then slowly screw the die down until you feel it touch the case, at that point if you screw the die in just a bit further 1/8-1/4 turn sort of thing and that will probably be about where you need it if you want a crimp.

August 31, 2002, 02:18 PM	#7
tawakoni Member Join Date: November 22, 2000 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 68	Aluminum Blazer cases are more reloadable than that #@%$ A-MERC. (Don't use them either!) Put the A-MERC where some other reloader won't find them. I keep a pair of channel-locks on my bench for the sole purpose of crushing any A-MERC I find. It's my duty. Best, tawakoni

August 31, 2002, 07:11 PM	#8
loach Member Join Date: February 20, 2002 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 38	The A-merc has been dutifully removed from bench. I've got some Speer, Cor-bon and Winchester that I'll use instead. Anyone have an opinion of the Winchester? It's from the Wally World White-box range ammo. I can't imagine, considering the price, that it's much better than the A-merc.

August 31, 2002, 08:27 PM	#9
tawakoni Member Join Date: November 22, 2000 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 68	The Winchester white-box will be just fine. The others you mentioned also. I am a brass rat. My .45ACP is range brass and I reload about 1500 per week. Naturally, I have some favorite brands but A-MERC is the only brass case I won't/can't use. Here's an interesting link from another forum: http://www.upoa.org/Shoots/HardWay.htm Do a search on TFL using the keyword 'amerc' or 'a-merc'. It's been discussed many times. Best, tawakoni

September 1, 2002, 08:54 AM	#10
loach Member Join Date: February 20, 2002 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 38	Wow, you're right, A-merc brass has been the topic of conversation a lot. My bad for not searching first... Looks like the rain is going to hold off for a while today, I should head to the range...