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Old January 2, 2011, 11:28 PM   #1
AC89
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General concensus on Hornady Lock-N-Load?

Hey all, I was wondering what the general feeling towards the Hornady Lock-N-Load AP Progressive Press was.

I am new to reloading, however my father is not, and I will likely be working with him. I have already started reading, and will be picking up some new reloading books to replace the old one my father has. I will mainly be using the press for reloading .40 S&W and .45 ACP.

Would this press be a good choice for some thing that isn't going to break the bank, but will also last?
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Old January 2, 2011, 11:42 PM   #2
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It is a good press. Mine needed some minor filing as the priming area was made too tight, and every grain of powder or brass shaving jammed it up. Besides that, it is a good machine. I haven't tried any other progressive press, but if you spend some money on a good press, you will be happy.
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Old January 3, 2011, 12:12 AM   #3
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General Concensus - Get the Hornady or a Dillion if you are getting a progressive. You can't go wrong with the Hornady or a Dillion.
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Old January 3, 2011, 09:22 AM   #4
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I have owned my Hornady LNL progressive for 2 years and absolutely love it. I have loaded over 20,000 rounds...9mm and 45ACP. Changing between calibers is very easy because of the LNL bushings. I have not used a Dillon so I can't comment on which one is better. But as jmortimer states, you can't go wrong with either.

With any setup, there will be additional things to buy. One of my favorites is the Hornady Lock-N-Load Powder Measure Micrometer for Handgun Rotor and Metering Assembly...link below. It is a huge time saver.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=615914

The following article compares the features of the Hornady, Dillon, and Lee progressive presses. It is a good article.

http://fatwhiteman.com/files/28524-2...Comparison.pdf

Regards...
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Old January 3, 2011, 10:33 AM   #5
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I've had mine for a few months now, and it's been just great! But be forewarned, there is a LOT going on at the same time with a progressive, and if something happens it can be easy to loose track where you are in the process. I started out on a Lee Classic Turret press, and I'm glad I did.
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Old January 3, 2011, 10:35 AM   #6
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It offers enough options for customizing, but out of the box it isn't configured for the way I read about others using it and the way I use it. The Hornady die set, not necessarily what one is using, me for instance, has a dedicated expander die to be placed over the priming station, and press designed to accommodate it in sequence.

What so many apparently do is eliminate the expander die and add a powder through expander insert (PTX) to the case-activated powder measure. That leaves the regular powder measure station (#3) open for a powder cop die or RCBS lockout die, devices which help greatly in assuring that each case bears an adequate powder charge without the operator looking into each illuminated case mouth.

The Hornady site and press instructions are not at all helpful about explaining all this. I like my press a lot but would not be as happy without informal support from here and other forums. I bought a few parts I didn't really need, despite reasonable diligence in researching everything.

I couldn't really say what is right for others or what is foolish, but what works for me is using my legacy Lee die set and an RCBS lockout die. I added the Hornady 290034 for my .45 ACP case mouth expanding. That is what Hornady calls "PTX lead", which flares the case mouth more than the 290044 insert. The new part (290034) actually does some flaring, so one does not need the often mentioned powderfunnel.com, cone-shaped PTX, a gizmo that flares but does not expand. To me, the powderfunnel.com unit makes sense when used in conjunction with or as a supplement to the regular Hornady expanding dies.

Good luck. I am quite impressed with the Hornady press and hope you will be too. My one encounter with Hornady customer service was outstanding.
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Old January 3, 2011, 04:25 PM   #7
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Yes, the Hornady LNL is a good machine ...although personally I prefer the Dillon 650 over the LNL ....but not by a big margin.

I think most of the bigger companies - Hornady, RCBS, Dillon --- etc are all making very good equipment. They all have "tempermental" issues or quirks that you have to work thru / discover ...

When I was looking for a new press / getting back into metallic reloading about 5 yrs ago ... I had the luxury of having buddies with the LNL, the RCBS press, all of the Dillons (the SDB, the 550 and the 650 ) .... and they were very generous in allowing me to spend some time with them / going thru the pros and cons of their equipment, how they were setup, etc ....and I settled on the Dillon 650, with the case feeder.

For what its worth / I'd buy the Dillon 650 again. I have probably run close to 100,000 rds thru my Dillon 650 and I'm very happy with it. The only problems I've had / were mistakes I've made - parts I lost / or broke ...and Dillon has been very good and easy to work with as I went thru my learning curve. The deal breaker on a press to me these days ....is making sure it has an effective "powder check mechanism" installed ...so it gives me the extra reliability of checking every powder drop / so its within tolerances where I will not get a squib round or a double charged round. In Dillon's presses - the SDB and the 550 do not have that option. I've been reloading for well over 40 yrs ....and I just did not want a manually indexing press ....for high quantity handgun ammo ....so I went quickly to the progressive options .../and I'm confident the Dillon 650 will be the last metallic press I'll need ( and I'll pass it down to one of the kids ...) when or if I decide to quit shooting ...someday ....
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Old January 3, 2011, 09:51 PM   #8
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I've not used any other progressive press, but I'd classify the LnL press as a 'pain in the ass'. When it's running it's okay and I can pound out some ammo. But I generally go through a long period of complete agony, on about a 30% cycle basis.

Lately, it's gone this way:

At the decap station, with the decap pin set so that it must easily extend 1/4" beyond the base of the case in full cycle, the primers don't get pushed out of the case. I can't explain this, pure physics seems to be slapped in the face. So, I get rather long runs of jiggling the plate until eventually I hear the spent primer drop into the can. Until that happens, the plate won't rotate, of course.

I've extended the decap pin in excess of 1/2" beyond the decap die...and this means the decap pin is extending out well beyond the case base. Still happens, and I just have to scratch my head.

Next issue is the sub-plate cam that's supposed to eject the loaded cartridge from the plate. Again, I can load 30 to 40 rds with no problem if I'm just so-so careful. Then, I run into a wall where I have to, again, jiggle the plate and finesse the cartridge away from the cam and plate. This is a regular occurrence. The cam just grabs the base of the case and sticks that cartridge in the plate so tight you have no choice but to intervene with a zen-like will to allow the case to escape. The magi-jector works fine for .45 or at least it did for me. Switch to .40SW, all is lost.

The other blood-letting, life-consuming design feature is the primer shuttle. It rides in a slot that, if anything in the system goes wrong, fills instantly with powder flakes and prevents the shuttle from moving fully inward. It ends up not being perfectly aligned with the case, and primers get crushed. I'd say this happens enough to cite it as an issue.

The press makes use of a long circular spring under the plate to retain the shell cases. I'm now buying these in sets of 3s because they seem to be prone to goofing up and getting themselves destroyed. In about 15,000 rds I've gone through about 3 of them, at a buck a piece, so it's not a big deal breaker. It's just another little 'feature' that suggests the press is misconceived by engineers who didn't get jobs at BMW.

So, overall, I think of the LnL as the sort of Triumph TR-3 of reloading presses, but without the nostalgia appeal that warrants learning about Stromberg carburetors.

I've learned it fairly well and it's good enough to keep. Were I buying a new press, I'd go the other way and see how that plays out.

Overall, I subjectively rate it 'pain in the ass', and give it a 6.
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Old January 3, 2011, 10:38 PM   #9
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I started reloading in 1960 on a single stage, years later got a second single stage, in the early 90's got a 550 at an estate sale. I then became a member of the blue force that blindly recommend Dillon over all other presses.

In the late 1990's I got a chance to see an LNL AP in action, and my blue loyalty was crushed, and I got the Hornady LNL progressive. My hunting buddy has a 650 and we each had extended loading sessions together on each others presses. In about 2007, myy buddy sheepishly told me he had sold his 650 and purchased an LNL AP.

There are many advantages of the Hornady over the Dillons. The greatest difference i$ ob$een the pri$e differen$e of Dillon$ a$$e$$orie$. The Hornady quick change bushings make the use of the machine more versatile.

In working up loads, where you need to remove all but one die, it takes about 5 seconds to remove and reinstall on the LNL. Single dies only CAN NOT be changed out quickly or easily on the Dillons toolheads.

The powder system is new tech micrometer settings, while dillon is still the old tech square push bar.

Primer system of the Hornady can be a PITA until you get it right, then it is no problem, and has fewer problems the the Dillons.

Used primer disposal on the LNL is thru the plate into a tube, out the bottom into the trash. This prevents primers from rolling around and spent primer compound from gumming up the mechanisms like it can do on the Dillons

The most impressive difference of a plain run of the mill LNL AP over a plain run of the mill Dillon is the improved run-out of ammo from the Hornady. My buddy and I did run out studies on the 550, 650, LNL AP, and single stage Pacific and RCBS presses.

The fact that the run-out on the LNL was not only better than the Dillons, it was better than the single stages. I now load all my rifle ammo on the LNL AP and no longer load them on single stage presses.

The LNL AP is not only great, it will cost less than the competition, and you will love it.
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Old January 4, 2011, 02:53 AM   #10
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Thanks for all the great posts.
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Old January 4, 2011, 07:10 AM   #11
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Bongo Boy:
Quote:
At the decap station, with the decap pin set so that it must easily extend 1/4" beyond the base of the case in full cycle, the primers don't get pushed out of the case. I can't explain this, pure physics seems to be slapped in the face. So, I get rather long runs of jiggling the plate until eventually I hear the spent primer drop into the can. Until that happens, the plate won't rotate, of course.
I had the same problem, called primer setback (IIRC). The solution is to polish the pimer pin. Chuck the pin in a drill, and use some med and fine wet/dry sand paper to polish the pin. After doing this, I've loaded several thousand rounds and have not had one single problem.

Not sure about your other issues, but this solution I know works.
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Old January 4, 2011, 07:22 AM   #12
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Mine has been great although when i first got it the timming was out on the pawls so I had to slightly adjust them other than that no problems.

When i went from a single stage to a progressive in a way it felt like i was learning to reload all over again there is just so much going on that you really have to take it nice and slow to begin with.
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Old January 4, 2011, 09:16 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BongoBoy
I've not used any other progressive press, but I'd classify the LnL press as a 'pain in the ass'. When it's running it's okay and I can pound out some ammo. But I generally go through a long period of complete agony, on about a 30% cycle basis.

Lately, it's gone this way:

At the decap station, with the decap pin set so that it must easily extend 1/4" beyond the base of the case in full cycle, the primers don't get pushed out of the case. I can't explain this, pure physics seems to be slapped in the face. So, I get rather long runs of jiggling the plate until eventually I hear the spent primer drop into the can. Until that happens, the plate won't rotate, of course.
<snip>
That is a die issue, not a press issue. I already had Lee dies, so I don't have that problem. However, as has been posted, I believe the issue is with the decapping pin, which can be fixed.

Many progressive issues relate directly to decapping and priming. I quickly tired of it and include decapping before final tumbling in case prep. The decapping pin simply ensures there is no tumbler media in the primer pocket. Life is good. It is more work but far less aggravation and worry. Suddenly reloading is almost fun, enjoying a good machine working smoothly.
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Old January 4, 2011, 09:17 AM   #14
floydster
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With my experience with the LNL, believe me, get the 650 Dillon.
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Old January 4, 2011, 09:32 AM   #15
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With my experience with the LNL, believe me, get the 650 Dillon.
That's defamatory propaganda. More !Go Dillon! thread torpedoes. Your comment is not any more fair than "with my experience with the Dillon 650, believe me, get the Hornady LnL". It's right up there with all the Lee bad mouthing, never mind that meanwhile many, many people are quite satisfied with Lee, especially considering the cost differentials.

What problems did you have with the LnL and what did you do to address them?
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Old January 4, 2011, 12:03 PM   #16
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My first experience with a Dillon 650 was not pretty (I ended up having to pick up 100 primers off the floor and out of the shell plate area). I ended up buying the simpler RCBS Pro 2000. After a few days of learning curve, I was very pleased, and I've had a ball with it ever since. At the time the 650 seemed too complicated...too many things to watch. HOWEVER, had I bought the 650, I'd most likely be just as happy with it, once past the learning curve, and with annoyances dealt with or worked around. Same goes for the Hornady AP...which I've never seen work...but, obviously many make it sing.

My observations the last two years? They are all good products...all three beat the heck out of reloading the old way. Not one of them is perfect. All three can be made to sing with minimal effort, using a little common sense, customer service, and forums like this one. Each have annoyances you need to ignore, or when you can, improve on...even Dillon.

IMO, you find the press with the positive features that best suite your loading style, but don't expect the perfection that doesn't exist. Take some time and a little patience, and learn to make it sing. It will be worth it.

The only feature about Hornady I would ignore is "free bullets" and the price tag of the press itself. There are more important reasons to choose that press, or one of the others. You would be smart, however, to analyze the overall cost/performance of the system after you buy all the bells and whistles, feeders, and caliber-change parts you might want.
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Old January 4, 2011, 12:27 PM   #17
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Like I have said I'm looking for a machine that will get the job done, not break the bank, and not looking for any thing perfect, as rarely any thing is. I do expect a lot of trial and error, and work getting every thing just right, and that doesn't worry me to much. Both me and my father are the "can fix any thing" type.

I don't really have a reloading style as I have never reloaded before, though I have watched my father. My father has only ever used a single stage press for his rifles, so with both of us being new to progressive presses I figured I would ask some others there thoughts.

I have looked at a number of presses including the lee pro 1000, and the Dillon 650. I loved the price tag of the lee pro 1k but the reviews kinda turned me off, as did the price tag of the Dillon.
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Old January 4, 2011, 01:57 PM   #18
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As for loading style, I'm referring to what you are going to load, how often, and how much. Also whether you will load a 1000 rounds or more of one thing at a time, or 100 rounds of 3 things per session.

If you need a production machine, say 3000 rounds of .45 in one session, for example, all three will work, but Dillon (650w/case feeder) will do it fastest out of the box...and most expensively. Hornady and RCBS are easier to load lots of different calibers, and can do production once set up for it.

You say you want to load mostly .45acp and .40s&w. If done in little batches say a box of 100 at a time you can use Lee's offering, but you will have to use every bit of your handy man talents to keep it going for bigger batches. It requires close watch for primer problems, and other things going out of adjustment (keep the primer tray full,clean,and graphited). Expect to clean and lube more often than any other press. Changing calibers is a bit of a bother...my friend just bought a press for each, .45 and 9mm. (Pro 1000's are cheap enough to do that) Their case feeder ain't fancy, but it works, the bullet feeder doesn't very well. The biggest weakness of the Pro 1000 is the number of stations.

My RCBS machine is Dillon quality made to change calibers very fast. It uses a very safe and fast primer system, and can be sped up further only with a bullet feeder...which I have. A Dillon 650 is not the best without a case feeder, as it load cases and bullets on opposite sides of the press. With a case feeder it is one of the best, just watch for turned primers. RCBS has no problems with turned primers.

LnL? If you like that feature super...I prefer storing tool heads all set up with dies, as per Dillon and RCBS. Hornady folks prefer the twist and lift quick change of each die. That's strictly a personal thing.

Good luck finding your style and press. BTW check out Graf & Sons...good prices and $5 shipping...even on big heavy orders.

Last edited by GWS; January 4, 2011 at 02:10 PM.
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Old January 4, 2011, 07:10 PM   #19
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I've had my LNL AP for over year now reloading 223 and 303 brit on it and it's worked perfectly fine. Although when you factor in the costs, in the end it's a tossup between blue or red. You can't go wrong with either (comparing the 650 to the LNL).

Dillon does have more aftermarket stuff they sell but they do carry a premium. While one part is more expensive than the competitor another part is the opposite. They both balance out.


if you do go with a dillon, check out grafs or brian enos at e-guns
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Old January 4, 2011, 08:21 PM   #20
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I entered the reloading hobby in December of '09 with a Lock-n-Load AP. I found it to be somewhat temperamental to get running properly but once I got the index pawls and primer shuttle adjusted it runs like a champ. And changing calibers is a piece of cake.

I also found the powder measure to be very accurate- usually within 0.1 grain with a very rare 0.2-grain deviation.

The only thing I don't care much for (but it's apparently true with most- if not all- progressives) is the fact that powder tends to jostle out of the cases if they're fairly full. So for loading my 125-grain JHP .357 Magnums with 17.2 grains of 2400, I usually do a modified single-stage process by priming and belling on the LnL AP, then charging and seating/crimping on the singleton.
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Old January 4, 2011, 09:28 PM   #21
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Running with 2 LNL presses for several years now. They are hands down the best progressive for those who have to perform multiple caliber changes. The LNL bushing system alone makes it triump other presses in this arena.

I have also converted my other presses to accept the bushings. With a simple twist I can move a die from press to press (even my rockchucker) to perform any task I want.

Say I want to just deprime 1000 cases. Dump the brass in the hopper and twist in the 1 die I need.

Say I have some brass that is already resized and primed. Just twist out the resizer die and load away.

I have never had any priming issues or indexing issues the others have described above. I never have any powder falling/spilling on my shellplates either.

Those that are having issues.... I can tell from your decription of problems that you... "may be doing it wrong".

Just fill the hopper and push and pull the handle. That's all there is.
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Old January 5, 2011, 03:46 AM   #22
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Gotta say thanks for all the input guys. After talking about it, we have decided to go with the Hornady Lock-N-Load AP Press. Thanks again.
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Old January 5, 2011, 04:05 PM   #23
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I had a bit of trouble with the LNL where cases jammed in the ezject. Hornady replaced the subplate and ended the problem. Before that as many as 80% of 9mm cases jammed.

One trick I picked up along the way was to use the Lee powder through expander die [U]after[U] the powder drop. I use a length of dowel and some tape to make my own powder cop through the top of the die. This way I expand the case mouth and check the powder in one step leaving a station available for a factory crimp die. The reviews of the Hornady powder through expanders just weren't good enough for me to give them a try.
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Old January 5, 2011, 04:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
The reviews of the Hornady powder through expanders just weren't good enough for me to give them a try.
They have since been improved, even a new part #. Now, IMO, they work as good or better than any on the market. FWIW, Hornady includes one with each of their new Bullet Feeder Dies. These expand and bell, unlike some which only bell the case opening.
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Old January 5, 2011, 05:49 PM   #25
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Quote:
These expand and bell, unlike some which only bell the case opening.
I think the issue was expnading but not belling, thus the need for the powderfunnel.com PTX device, which only bells, leaving expanding to the expander station or the bullet when inserted.
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