ID of Service Rifle

Schmit · July 23, 2000, 01:15 PM

Harley

Need help IDing a rifle. When I left my last job the owner gave me this rifle. It was his Grandfathers. He has never shot it and he only has a daughter. He said he couldn't think of anyone else he would rather have to have it.

Here are links to two picks (they aren't that good)

#1 shows the entire rifle

#2 shows the receiver

Though you can't read it in the pic in #2 the receivers has the following inscriptions

+
WAFFENFABRIK
BERN
201xxx
M.78

It looks to be a rimfire as the bolt has two firing pins located @ 0300 & 0900 on the boltface. Extractor is located @ 1200 on bolt.

I can't find any marking as to caliber but it is bigger then .40 but smaller then .45. (i.e a .40 slips easily with room to spare, a .45 won't fit).

Don't know if you can see it but it has a lug for the bayonet on the right side of the barrel just forward of the end of the stock.

I'm sure it isn't worth squat but I sure would like to know [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] it is and who used it.

------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

[This message has been edited by Schmit (edited July 23, 2000).]

Steven Mace · July 23, 2000, 02:29 PM

Schmit, I believe the rifle you're describing is the Vetterli M78. The was the first bolt action rifle to be adopted as a military service weapon back on January 8, 1869 by the Swiss Military. The M78 was chambered in the 10.4x38Rmm (a.k.a. .41 Swiss) rimfire cartridge. You can visit http://www.swissrifles.com/vetterli/history.html for more information on the Vetterli rifles and their history. Hope this helps!

Steve Mace

------------------
After today, its all historical

Schmit · July 23, 2000, 02:58 PM

Steven

Thanks. Thats it. Now.... tell me were to get a replacement front sling swivel and factory ammo (yuck yuck yuck).

Again, thanks.

------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

beemerb · July 23, 2000, 09:03 PM

Check with old western scrounger for ammo.Good chance he has some.He is on line.Gunparts might have the swivel.Isn't in the book but the have a lot of parts not listed.Give them a call.

------------------
Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.

Harley Nolden · July 24, 2000, 05:56 AM

Schmit:
Thought you may want to have this. I also have the dimensional data on the ammo if you'd like to have it.

Historical Notes: Swiss military cartridge adopted in 1869 for use in the Vetterli turnbolt rifle. The official military round is rim-fire, but a center-fire version was also loaded in Europe. The cartridge and rifle were discontinued in 1889.

The 10.4mm, or 41 Swiss, cartridge is quite well known in the U.S. and most american companies loaded it until about 1942. Thousands of the Swiss Vetterli rifles have been sold in this country and a surprising number have been used for hunting big game, usually deer. The 41 Swiss would be a barely adequate short-range cartridge for deer-class animals. The rim-fire military version can't be reloaded.

This model was also adopted by the Italians, with the same ballistics. It was modified with a tube magazine at first, then to a box magazine. The Italian version was known as the Vitali system.

HJN

July 23, 2000, 01:15 PM	#1
Schmit Staff Alumnus Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Masquito infested flatlands of Mid-FL Posts: 1,857	Harley Need help IDing a rifle. When I left my last job the owner gave me this rifle. It was his Grandfathers. He has never shot it and he only has a daughter. He said he couldn't think of anyone else he would rather have to have it. Here are links to two picks (they aren't that good) #1 shows the entire rifle #2 shows the receiver Though you can't read it in the pic in #2 the receivers has the following inscriptions + WAFFENFABRIK BERN 201xxx M.78 It looks to be a rimfire as the bolt has two firing pins located @ 0300 & 0900 on the boltface. Extractor is located @ 1200 on bolt. I can't find any marking as to caliber but it is bigger then .40 but smaller then .45. (i.e a .40 slips easily with room to spare, a .45 won't fit). Don't know if you can see it but it has a lug for the bayonet on the right side of the barrel just forward of the end of the stock. I'm sure it isn't worth squat but I sure would like to know [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] it is and who used it. ------------------ Schmit GySgt, USMC(Ret) NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS "Si vis Pacem Para Bellum" [This message has been edited by Schmit (edited July 23, 2000).]

July 23, 2000, 02:29 PM	#2
Steven Mace Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 1999 Location: Clifton, Colorado USA Posts: 724	Schmit, I believe the rifle you're describing is the Vetterli M78. The was the first bolt action rifle to be adopted as a military service weapon back on January 8, 1869 by the Swiss Military. The M78 was chambered in the 10.4x38Rmm (a.k.a. .41 Swiss) rimfire cartridge. You can visit http://www.swissrifles.com/vetterli/history.html for more information on the Vetterli rifles and their history. Hope this helps! Steve Mace ------------------ After today, its all historical

July 23, 2000, 02:58 PM	#3
Schmit Staff Alumnus Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Masquito infested flatlands of Mid-FL Posts: 1,857	Steven Thanks. Thats it. Now.... tell me were to get a replacement front sling swivel and factory ammo (yuck yuck yuck). Again, thanks. ------------------ Schmit GySgt, USMC(Ret) NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS "Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

July 23, 2000, 09:03 PM	#4
beemerb Junior member Join Date: October 2, 1999 Location: AZ Posts: 1,759	Check with old western scrounger for ammo.Good chance he has some.He is on line.Gunparts might have the swivel.Isn't in the book but the have a lot of parts not listed.Give them a call. ------------------ Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed. I'm old and deceitful.

July 24, 2000, 05:56 AM	#5
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	Schmit: Thought you may want to have this. I also have the dimensional data on the ammo if you'd like to have it. Historical Notes: Swiss military cartridge adopted in 1869 for use in the Vetterli turnbolt rifle. The official military round is rim-fire, but a center-fire version was also loaded in Europe. The cartridge and rifle were discontinued in 1889. The 10.4mm, or 41 Swiss, cartridge is quite well known in the U.S. and most american companies loaded it until about 1942. Thousands of the Swiss Vetterli rifles have been sold in this country and a surprising number have been used for hunting big game, usually deer. The 41 Swiss would be a barely adequate short-range cartridge for deer-class animals. The rim-fire military version can't be reloaded. This model was also adopted by the Italians, with the same ballistics. It was modified with a tube magazine at first, then to a box magazine. The Italian version was known as the Vitali system. HJN