another travel question re Chicago

ming · August 7, 2009, 03:59 PM

Given that Chicago has a no handgun ordinance and that Chicago residents are prohibited from possessing handguns, would a resident run into trouble trying to fly out of O'Hare airport with a declared handgun in his /her luggage? I'm assuming all airline regs are followed. Could the airline turn a Chicago resident in or even worse would they be required to? Haven't seen this discussed before.

Wagonman · August 7, 2009, 04:22 PM

I guess technically you could be in violation of our draconian gun laws. But, if it was cased and unloaded in accordance with TSA regs in your trunk with documentation from your state you should be fine from the CPD. TSA has never asked for anything from me in the dozen or so times I have flown out of Chicago.

GHF · August 7, 2009, 08:36 PM

Don Young, the House member from Alaska, got the following ruling from the Justice Department.

http://www.anjrpc.org/DefendingYourR...s%20letter.pdf

This covers changing modes of travel - car to plane to car - in a single journey. Changing modes of transportation does not negate the continuous journey rule.

It was obtained because the cops at NYC airports were arresting people from CT and other states (where it was legal to have and going to places that it was legal to have) who were getting on planes and were checking guns.

maestro pistolero · August 8, 2009, 01:58 AM

What would be a person's obligation to prove that he/she were coming from a state where the weapon could legally be possessed?

I was stopped at the check in counter in Syracuse after declaring a pistol in my checked luggage. The Airline attendant told me she was required to notify local police. My gun was already in the custody of the airline, bound for a state where I could legally carry it concealed. The Syracuse Police took the gun into custody and required me to pay an FFL on both ends of the journey to send my gun back to my home state, 10 days and 150 dollars later.

ming · August 8, 2009, 03:19 PM

The question I still have is would a Chicago resident (where handguns are illegal) face arrest on a weapons charge trying to fly out of O'Hare. The problem being that it is illegal for a resident of Chicago to possess a handgun. Sounds to me like you'd be asking for trouble.

Brian Pfleuger · August 8, 2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

The question I still have is would a Chicago resident (where handguns are illegal) face arrest on a weapons charge trying to fly out of O'Hare. The problem being that it is illegal for a resident of Chicago to possess a handgun.

I'm guessing here, but I'd say that the federal law which allows transport would not protect you in this case.

The law requires that the handgun is legal in BOTH the place of origin and the final destination. If the gun is illegal in Chicago, and you're from Chicago, then the gun is illegal.

Composer_1777 · August 8, 2009, 04:52 PM

HMM I don't get how a city has the authority to ban handguns, the degredation of our republic is very disturbing...

ming · August 8, 2009, 05:06 PM

I feel the same way you do peetzakilla. Then how the he** can a Chicago resident fly out of a Chicago airport while transporting a handgun? I can't believe someone hasn't tried/done this before. I also agree with Composer_1777, very disturbing, but that's the way it is. There is a court case pending, maybe it will change for something sensible, but I'm not willing to hold my breath given our latest appointment to the Supremes.

Brian Pfleuger · August 8, 2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Then how the he** can a Chicago resident fly out of a Chicago airport while transporting a handgun?

If it's illegal for a resident of Chicago to own a handgun then how would a resident of Chicago have a handgun with which to fly out?

Composer_1777 · August 8, 2009, 05:12 PM

The supreme court should protect us, but they haven't been expanded to keep up with legal dmand. Who knows what SOTO will do, she's a flip-flop progressive

ming · August 8, 2009, 05:16 PM

Hey peetzakilla,

purely hypothetical question of course

. Or, suppose someone wanted to transport it to a second residence in Florida to make it legal?

p.s. What's a guy from NY know about pizza?

chibiker · August 8, 2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

If it's illegal for a resident of Chicago to own a handgun then how would a resident of Chicago have a handgun with which to fly out?

It's not illegal for a resident to own a handgun.... the problem is that you cannot legally possess it within city limits. Both airports, O'Hare and Midway are within city limits.

vytoland · August 8, 2009, 10:49 PM

Quote:

HMM I don't get how a city has the authority to ban handguns, the degredation of our republic is very disturbing

where have you been??...............big brother do what he want..........when he want

who is there to stop him??

BobCat45 · August 9, 2009, 12:16 AM

Although interstate sales have to go through an FFL, I believe that it is legal for someone to ship (not mail) a firearm to himself in another state, care of whoever he is visiting there. For instance, if live in one state and are going hunting in a distant state, you can ship your rifle to yourself, care of the person with whom you are going hunting, in the other state.

There ought to be a UPS office outside the city limits, in a suburb where it is legal to own a handgun (and presuming you have an Illinois Firearms Owner ID Card), that would accept it for shipment it to you, in Florida or in care of someone in Florida. You fly out of O'Hare, the handgun flies UPS, you meet in Florida, and live happily ever after.

Golly I'm glad I don't live in Crook County anymore...

Brian Pfleuger · August 10, 2009, 09:26 AM

Quote:

It's not illegal for a resident to own a handgun.... the problem is that you cannot legally possess it within city limits. Both airports, O'Hare and Midway are within city limits.

I don't get Illinois law.

A resident of Chicago can own, but not possess within the city, a handgun? Who issues the permits? I would assume it would be some agency within the city, how do you convince them that you won't bring the gun into the city? Most people don't have two houses. Where are you supposed to leave the thing?

Anyway, technically, I believe that the federal law would protect you. For instance, you own a handgun and have a permit and keep it stored in you beach house outside Chicago. You are headed to FL (or some such place where you have a permit and/or your gun is legal) and you intend to fly from O'Hare. Your gun is "legal" on both ends of the trip. If it is properly cased and declared then, again technically, you would be fine.

In the real world of Chicago, um, NO, don't do it.

ming · August 10, 2009, 12:00 PM

The situation is that Chicago bans unregistered handguns. The catch-22 is that the city no longer issues handgun permits and hasn't since the early 80s (1982?). I believe the ordinance prohibits "possession" of such firearms. ( I don't have the document in front of me but if you're interested an internet search should find it.) I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if "possess" is technically the same as "own". I would guess you may "own" a handgun but not "possess" it, e.g., own one but keep it in Florida. Legalese, who knows what the heck it means. Guess that's why we have lawyers.

Wagonman · August 10, 2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

HMM I don't get how a city has the authority to ban handguns, the degredation of our republic is very disturbing...

While anti RKBA things irritate me, I think most of the evil done is anti-federalism. If you want to live where CCW is banned you should have a choice, as I should because I wish to live in a State that allows CCW.

This might be a little cloudy logic.

Quote:

It's not illegal for a resident to own a handgun.... the problem is that you cannot legally possess it within city limits. Both airports, O'Hare and Midway are within city limits.

O'Hare is outside city limits, albeit a part of the city.

Composer_1777 · August 10, 2009, 01:47 PM

S Court is suppose to protect people from being oppressed by state and Federal laws, People ares uppose to vote in each state according to their choice, but we are a republic and the Constitution is suppose to be obeyed no matter the facet of allowed democracy. the S court is suppose to protect the constitution and rights from both State, Local and Federal Law.

chibiker · August 10, 2009, 02:06 PM

Wagonman, not to argue but O'Hare is indeed considered to be within city limits.... it is connected to Chicago via a 200 foot wide strip of land that runs along Higgins road. This was done in the '50's to make sure the airport stayed completely within the city's control. So being anywhere within or on O'Hare property is subject to all the laws, rules, whatever no differently than if you were standing on the corner of State and Madison downtown.

Peetza... owning and whether or not it is in your possesion is definitely two different things... as has been said, No, you're not going to get a permit for one unless you are somehow, someway directly connected to the city's political elite, i.e., an alderman.

I am a Chicago resident and own several handguns, buy, sell, trade them all the time. I am fortunate enough (if you want to call it that) to have a family member that lives in the 'burbs so I keep them there. They have FOID cards and since possesion of firearms in said burb is not illegal all is well.

So, if I am flying out of here to visit say the bro-in-law in Florida and want to take a gun with me.... I can go pick it up, pack it in the bag but technically the minute I am on O'Hare property I am breaking the law... because I am now "in the city" and in possesion of an "unregistered" firearm. If there is indeed any law, state or federal that would negate that then I would really like to know. I would want it in writing, in triplicate and signed by every member of the department that says it's fine before I would even begin to attempt it.

Edited with afterthought: Just to clarify, we are talking about Chicago residents. Not people flying in an out of O'Hare that don't live here(city) or are not cops.
I am sure there are tons of people that do it all the time and there is no issues.

ming · August 10, 2009, 02:52 PM

I'm with you Chibiker. I'd really want to see a legal answer to this. Of course however, I'd prefer not to have to pay a lawyer to find out the answer

.

Wagonman · August 11, 2009, 12:44 AM

I did not know that. But Higgins is patrolled by Suburban Coppers----don't ask how I know

I thought it was an unconnected island.

August 7, 2009, 03:59 PM	#1
ming Member Join Date: July 26, 2009 Posts: 65	another travel question re Chicago Given that Chicago has a no handgun ordinance and that Chicago residents are prohibited from possessing handguns, would a resident run into trouble trying to fly out of O'Hare airport with a declared handgun in his /her luggage? I'm assuming all airline regs are followed. Could the airline turn a Chicago resident in or even worse would they be required to? Haven't seen this discussed before.

August 7, 2009, 08:36 PM	#3
GHF Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 84	See Don Young Letter Don Young, the House member from Alaska, got the following ruling from the Justice Department. http://www.anjrpc.org/DefendingYourR...s%20letter.pdf This covers changing modes of travel - car to plane to car - in a single journey. Changing modes of transportation does not negate the continuous journey rule. It was obtained because the cops at NYC airports were arresting people from CT and other states (where it was legal to have and going to places that it was legal to have) who were getting on planes and were checking guns.

August 8, 2009, 05:16 PM	#11
ming Member Join Date: July 26, 2009 Posts: 65	Hey peetzakilla, purely hypothetical question of course . Or, suppose someone wanted to transport it to a second residence in Florida to make it legal? p.s. What's a guy from NY know about pizza? Last edited by ming; August 8, 2009 at 06:02 PM.

August 10, 2009, 02:06 PM	#19
chibiker Member Join Date: November 14, 2008 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 63	Wagonman, not to argue but O'Hare is indeed considered to be within city limits.... it is connected to Chicago via a 200 foot wide strip of land that runs along Higgins road. This was done in the '50's to make sure the airport stayed completely within the city's control. So being anywhere within or on O'Hare property is subject to all the laws, rules, whatever no differently than if you were standing on the corner of State and Madison downtown. Peetza... owning and whether or not it is in your possesion is definitely two different things... as has been said, No, you're not going to get a permit for one unless you are somehow, someway directly connected to the city's political elite, i.e., an alderman. I am a Chicago resident and own several handguns, buy, sell, trade them all the time. I am fortunate enough (if you want to call it that) to have a family member that lives in the 'burbs so I keep them there. They have FOID cards and since possesion of firearms in said burb is not illegal all is well. So, if I am flying out of here to visit say the bro-in-law in Florida and want to take a gun with me.... I can go pick it up, pack it in the bag but technically the minute I am on O'Hare property I am breaking the law... because I am now "in the city" and in possesion of an "unregistered" firearm. If there is indeed any law, state or federal that would negate that then I would really like to know. I would want it in writing, in triplicate and signed by every member of the department that says it's fine before I would even begin to attempt it. Edited with afterthought: Just to clarify, we are talking about Chicago residents. Not people flying in an out of O'Hare that don't live here(city) or are not cops. I am sure there are tons of people that do it all the time and there is no issues. Last edited by chibiker; August 10, 2009 at 02:17 PM.

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August 7, 2009, 04:22 PM	#2
Wagonman Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,014	I guess technically you could be in violation of our draconian gun laws. But, if it was cased and unloaded in accordance with TSA regs in your trunk with documentation from your state you should be fine from the CPD. TSA has never asked for anything from me in the dozen or so times I have flown out of Chicago.

August 8, 2009, 01:58 AM	#4
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	What would be a person's obligation to prove that he/she were coming from a state where the weapon could legally be possessed? I was stopped at the check in counter in Syracuse after declaring a pistol in my checked luggage. The Airline attendant told me she was required to notify local police. My gun was already in the custody of the airline, bound for a state where I could legally carry it concealed. The Syracuse Police took the gun into custody and required me to pay an FFL on both ends of the journey to send my gun back to my home state, 10 days and 150 dollars later.

August 8, 2009, 03:19 PM	#5
ming Member Join Date: July 26, 2009 Posts: 65	The question I still have is would a Chicago resident (where handguns are illegal) face arrest on a weapons charge trying to fly out of O'Hare. The problem being that it is illegal for a resident of Chicago to possess a handgun. Sounds to me like you'd be asking for trouble.

August 8, 2009, 04:52 PM	#7
Composer_1777 Junior member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: New Orleans, La Posts: 242	HMM I don't get how a city has the authority to ban handguns, the degredation of our republic is very disturbing...

August 8, 2009, 05:06 PM	#8
ming Member Join Date: July 26, 2009 Posts: 65	I feel the same way you do peetzakilla. Then how the he** can a Chicago resident fly out of a Chicago airport while transporting a handgun? I can't believe someone hasn't tried/done this before. I also agree with Composer_1777, very disturbing, but that's the way it is. There is a court case pending, maybe it will change for something sensible, but I'm not willing to hold my breath given our latest appointment to the Supremes.

August 8, 2009, 05:12 PM	#10
Composer_1777 Junior member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: New Orleans, La Posts: 242	The supreme court should protect us, but they haven't been expanded to keep up with legal dmand. Who knows what SOTO will do, she's a flip-flop progressive

August 9, 2009, 12:16 AM	#14
BobCat45 Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: East Bernard, TX Posts: 523	Although interstate sales have to go through an FFL, I believe that it is legal for someone to ship (not mail) a firearm to himself in another state, care of whoever he is visiting there. For instance, if live in one state and are going hunting in a distant state, you can ship your rifle to yourself, care of the person with whom you are going hunting, in the other state. There ought to be a UPS office outside the city limits, in a suburb where it is legal to own a handgun (and presuming you have an Illinois Firearms Owner ID Card), that would accept it for shipment it to you, in Florida or in care of someone in Florida. You fly out of O'Hare, the handgun flies UPS, you meet in Florida, and live happily ever after. Golly I'm glad I don't live in Crook County anymore...

August 10, 2009, 12:00 PM	#16
ming Member Join Date: July 26, 2009 Posts: 65	The situation is that Chicago bans unregistered handguns. The catch-22 is that the city no longer issues handgun permits and hasn't since the early 80s (1982?). I believe the ordinance prohibits "possession" of such firearms. ( I don't have the document in front of me but if you're interested an internet search should find it.) I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if "possess" is technically the same as "own". I would guess you may "own" a handgun but not "possess" it, e.g., own one but keep it in Florida. Legalese, who knows what the heck it means. Guess that's why we have lawyers.

August 10, 2009, 01:47 PM	#18
Composer_1777 Junior member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: New Orleans, La Posts: 242	S Court is suppose to protect people from being oppressed by state and Federal laws, People ares uppose to vote in each state according to their choice, but we are a republic and the Constitution is suppose to be obeyed no matter the facet of allowed democracy. the S court is suppose to protect the constitution and rights from both State, Local and Federal Law.

August 10, 2009, 02:52 PM	#20
ming Member Join Date: July 26, 2009 Posts: 65	I'm with you Chibiker. I'd really want to see a legal answer to this. Of course however, I'd prefer not to have to pay a lawyer to find out the answer .

August 11, 2009, 12:44 AM	#21
Wagonman Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,014	I did not know that. But Higgins is patrolled by Suburban Coppers----don't ask how I know I thought it was an unconnected island.