Why does every one hate the XD grip safety - Page 5

Gaerek · March 6, 2013, 12:55 PM

Quote:

But the last two 9mm Glocks I have owned have spit hot brass right into my face.

Not trying to turn this into a Glock vs. XD war...

I had BTF for the first 500 round of my Gen 4 G19's life (the one that supposedly has the worst issue with it). I kept track, and my average over that time was around 1 in 25. After 500, the average dropped to 1 in 100. Over the next 1000, the ratio was zero that I noticed.

I firmly believe a gun should perform great right out of the box, so not excusing Glock of this problem, they need to figure it out, but as of right now, I can't remember the last time I've had BTF with that gun. BTW, I never changed ejectors, extractors, springs, or anything else that might change the ejection pattern. It doesn't consistantly eject brass, but it's more or less slightly back, and out at about a 45 degree angle.

Lemmon · March 6, 2013, 12:58 PM

I Like the fact that it is one more method of keeping me from shooting my self. I love the 1911's and I now have the XDs 45 which is very small and a real pleasure to shoot. And it has a grip safety that I like.....

Lemmon from Rural South Carolina

thedudeabides · March 6, 2013, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Except SA didn't design the XD, it's a licensed design.

While I understand that the XD is just some East Bloc tupperware Glock clone licensed by SA to boost sales and profits (like some of their crappy Brazilian 1911s that make Armscor seem like a world class manufacturer), there's still some irony that the manufacturer responsible for a lot of the resurgence of the 1911 in the past few years would sell a plastic gun with a grip safety.

But, really, I think it's a dumb idea on anything but a 1911.

TunnelRat · March 6, 2013, 01:47 PM

Quote:

While I understand that the XD is just some East Bloc tupperware Glock clone licensed by SA to boost sales and profits (like some of their crappy Brazilian 1911s that make Armscor seem like a world class manufacturer), there's still some irony that the manufacturer responsible for a lot of the resurgence of the 1911 in the past few years would sell a plastic gun with a grip safety.

Aww, someone sounds upset.

It's okay, no one is going to make you buy one.

thedudeabides · March 6, 2013, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Aww, someone sounds upset.

It's okay, no one is going to make you buy one.

Too late

When I was young and didn't know better, I owned an IMBEL SA 1911. I think it was cursed. To this day it's the only 1911 I ever sold.

When I was old and did know better, my local gun store convinced me to get an XDs. I think it was posessed by the ghost of the old 1911, since it had more FTFs and double feeds than any other gun I've owned.

I'm sure this is bad luck and utter coincidence, but it didn't make me a happy man at the time.

Nakanokalronin · March 6, 2013, 03:04 PM

I guess some brands aren't for everyone. 7 XD, 1 XDM, 1 XDS and two SA 1911s and none of them have ever had a single jam or malfunction with any ammo. I'm sure you had problems , just putting forth my experience with SA products.

57K · March 6, 2013, 05:04 PM

The brass to the face issue with Glocks has become all too common theses days. After Gaston retired, the kids decided to let the engineers play with cost cutting "improvements" like the ejector and MIM extractors. But there was always a basic flaw because Glock doesn't relieve the ejection port on any of their pistols and never have. It's about the only combat pistol in the world that doesn't have a relieved ejection port. If the ejector doesn't do its job properly, the ejecting case hits the lower part of the slide window harder than normal it bounces and gets struck by the front vertical part of the slide window, knocking the case straight back. And when I say harder than normal it's because brass being ejected from Glocks have always struck the lower slide window when ejecting and that is evidenced by the triangular scar you see at the casemouth on ejected Glock brass. A relieved ejection port would almost certainly help prevent that.

Watch an AGI gunsmithing video on Glock pistols and you'll see that one of the recommendations they make is to have the ejection port relieved. This, polygonal rifling, loose chambers, poor sights and the incorrect grip angle are just some of the reasons I feel the XD/XDm is a superior pistol. No MIM in my pistol that I'm aware of either. Then look at the forward slide rails in the XD/XDm and they appear massive compared to Glocks and other polymer framed pistols. And those rails are integral to the locking block as a single and replaceable unit if ever necessary.

I always liked the size of the grip on the G21, just not the Luger grip angle. But it made me realize that a .45 ACP polymer pistol would be a better fit for my large hands. So I considered the G21, FN FNP-USG, H&K USP and HK45 and the M&P. I ruled out the HK45 simply because $1000 is too much to pay for a polymer frame pistol and it is little more than a revision of the USP. The closest runner up was the M&P, but in a similar sized pistol, magazine capacity is 10 rounds vs 13 rounds for the XDm, and the XDm is still constructed better in terms of the chamberblock/rail issue I mentioned and the trigger on the M&P is more akin to the Glocks where the XDm is single action with a trigger that's very tuneable like the one in my pistol. Plus there's that "Match Grade" barrel in the XDm that's conventionally rifled. My XDm sees nothing but handloads with a lot of them being cast lead SWCs. Yeah, there are guys that shoot cast lead bullets in their pistols that have polygonal bores, but I don't want to be among them. I get superior accuracy with my XDm using jacketed or cast lead bullets. And to me, the positives of the grip safety far outweigh the negatives. Combined with the other issues I pointed out, the XDm is the best polymer framed pistol for ME.

highpower3006 · March 6, 2013, 08:06 PM

Quote:

When I was old and did know better, my local gun store convinced me to get an XDs. I think it was posessed by the ghost of the old 1911, since it had more FTFs and double feeds than any other gun I've owned.

Maybe you just had a bad one. Now I admit that my XD is still pretty new, I took it on on my first range trip with it last Sunday. I shot 250 rounds of a couple of different types of range ammo and twenty rounds of Federal hollowpoints. Out of 270 rounds fired, there were NO failures of any kind. It just gobbled up what ever I put through it. This was with four different factory magazines.

I did forget to mention that mine is a 9mm, so maybe that has something to do with it's reliability.

481 · March 6, 2013, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breakingcontact:

Everyone hates it? That's news to me. I shot one the other day and didn't think about it.

Trigger was weird to me but over all I liked the gun.

That's been my impression of it too. I found the grip safety at little distracting at first, but I got used to it. The trigger felt "stagey" to me, but it is not a problem if I concentrate on making the shot.

BGutzman · March 6, 2013, 08:46 PM

I didn't know I was suppose to hate it... I will have to tell my wife too so she can hate hers....

I like my XDs.

justplainpossum · March 6, 2013, 08:53 PM

I am very happy I got the XDM, and I really like the safety grip.

BerdanSS · March 6, 2013, 10:53 PM

I don't hate the grip safety.......I hate the entire pistol

BuckRub · March 6, 2013, 10:58 PM

The XDM - A wanna be Glock!

BGutzman · March 6, 2013, 11:13 PM

Quote:

The XDM - A wanna be Glock!

Yes, everyone wants to emulate the most vanilla guns in the industry...

jr24 · March 7, 2013, 01:52 AM

Wasn't the grip safety that made me get rid of my XD9. I liked that feature. What I didn't like was the trigger (seemed to break really far back in the pull) and the "felt" recoil in my hands was much higher than my other 9mms. So it funded a SR9c.

dayman · March 7, 2013, 06:17 AM

I kind of like it. I don't mind striker guns without a grip safety, but having it there is one more layer of passive safety.
And, like other people have already said, I don;t actually notice it when I shoot.

57K · March 7, 2013, 05:28 PM

Quote:

The XDM - A wanna be Glock!

If you knew anything about the XDm I don't think you'd be saying that. About the only similarity between them is that both have a polymer frame, but even then there's a difference. The XDm uses the John Browning grip angle and Glock uses the Georg Luger grip angle. The XDm's locking system is copied from SIG and much stronger than the Glocks. When the pistol's in battery the chamber is surrounded by steel in an XDm. One reason they weigh more. The XDm doesn't use a polygonal bore so there are no issues shooting lead bullets and the barrel is match grade. And of course, all XD/XDm/XDs pistols have a relieved ejection port. My brass ejects in perfect condition rather than brass ejected from a Glock striking the ejection port and leaving a triangular scar at the casemouth that can lead to premature splits at the casemouth. Glock doesn't want you to shoot handloads and they assist with making it less practical. Then there's that chamber support issue where all XD/XDm chambers fully support the casehead, where Glock chambers are sloppy by comparison and still questionable in .40 S&W as far as safety. And more Ka-Booms have happened with .40 caliber Glocks than any pistol in history. Totally different firing mechanisms and who really likes the factory sights on a Glock? As far as the grip safety, anyone ever hear the term, "XD Leg"?

It's really pretty easy to see that the designers at HS Produkt who make the XD/XDm family of pistols, took a look at everything that was wrong with the Glock and corrected it. And like Glock, HS Produkt borrowed the SIG developed barrel design where the chamber locks up into the window in the slide. What Glock has failed to do is to improve on their original design and HS Produkt pistols have vastly improved over the original Glock design. There's is no way that the XD/XDm is a copy of the Glock.

Gaerek · March 7, 2013, 05:40 PM

Hey guys, guess what I just learned! Chevy pick-ups are better than Ford!!!

Oh, and Pepsi is far better than Coke!

Anyone who uses an AK instead of an AR definitely has some screws loose!

We can all spout off reasons why we prefer one gun or brand over the other. But last I checked, the topic was about the grip safety on the XD line. Not whether Glock has a MIM ejector, unsupported chamber (very few handguns have 100% fully supported chamber, XD is the exception, not the rule, see http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...rSupport-1.jpg for an example), or the XDs feel like you're trying to shoot a brick.

So, about that grip safety again?

57K · March 7, 2013, 07:22 PM

Go back further than the last few posts and you'll see why the XD/XDm has a grip safety. My last post was addressed specifically to the statement that the XDm is a Glock wannabe. But even then I asked if anyone's heard of the term, XD Leg? The term "Glock Leg" has been around for 20 years and the grip safety on the XDm also prevents the slide going going out of battery when you holster it. More than a few LE officers have drawn a Glock only to find it would not fire because the slide was out of battery. HS Product/Springfield Armory addressed that with the addition of the grip safety. Do try and keep up!

Gaerek · March 7, 2013, 07:36 PM

Is that why both your posts are about why the Glock sucks compared to the mighty XD?

Seriously, maybe you need to re-read what you wrote.

About that grip safety again?

EDIT: Decided it just wasn't worth it for a gun brand war. Shoot what you like folks!

Nathan · March 7, 2013, 08:04 PM

Quote:

When I was old and did know better, my local gun store convinced me to get an XDs. I think it was posessed by the ghost of the old 1911, since it had more FTFs and double feeds than any other gun I've owned.

I'm sorry you were convinced to buy something you didn't want. I personally take a little more responsibility for my gun buying decisions, but to each his own.

I have to laugh about the FTF's and double feeds. I've never seen one, never had any kind of issue with mine and have never even seen Internet lore about this. I'll bet Springfield would like that gun back to see how it could be made to FTF or double feed.

So I ask everyone else....is there another XD with issues like this?

BTW, still like the grip safety.

thedudeabides · March 7, 2013, 09:30 PM

Quote:

I'm sorry you were convinced to buy something you didn't want. I personally take a little more responsibility for my gun buying decisions, but to each his own.

I have to laugh about the FTF's and double feeds. I've never seen one, never had any kind of issue with mine and have never even seen Internet lore about this. I'll bet Springfield would like that gun back to see how it could be made to FTF or double feed.

There's a whole thread on XDs failures and SA customer service on the XD talk forums, that details similar problems to what I had. SA said that I needed to try new magazines and (to their credit) sent me a new one, which fixed the double feeds, but not the FTFs. And these were double feeds, not FTEs with new rounds loaded on top of them. Two trips to SA fixed the FTF problem, eventually, but with no explanation as to what caused it. At that point I had no desire to carry the gun and sold it at a loss.

As for the comment about gun decisions, I tend to trust the opinions of people who have years more experience with firearms than I do. The XDs came recommended as a cheap, polymer single stack that was a lightweight alternative to my P229 (which is a heavy and thick brick), G30 (which is a thick brick), and G36 (which didn't have a reputation for reliability at the time). 450 sale price was also tempting.

Needless to say, if I want to carry a single stack 45 with a grip safety, I just get a sturdy belt and wear my 1991 Colt Commander.

Tactical Jackalope · March 7, 2013, 10:54 PM

Oh God...57k. Please...seek and you shall find at its finest. I bet if Gaerek (hope I spelled it right. I'm on my phone) stooped to that negative level you're on, he can (or anyone with access to google or that matter) find just as bad of things wrong with the XD.

Chill out.

BGutzman · March 7, 2013, 11:13 PM

Constantine called it...

57K · March 7, 2013, 11:31 PM

Hey, I've owned Glocks and there is nothing I said that isn't fact. I've been shooting handguns for over 35 years and happen to know a thing or two about design because it's what I do for a living. I have pointed out the merits of the XDs grip safety and part of it was to prevent "Glock Leg". If that offends your Glock sensibilities, why are you reading this thread in the first place?

And, I'm a member at XD Talk where Springfield Armory maintains one of the best reps in the industry for customer service. Every manufacturer lets a bad pistol slip out the door on occasion, but if it's a SA, you can bet they'll make it right. I suggest y'all visit the forum and you might want to peruse Glock Talk and see for yourself how many issues there have been with late gen 3 and gen 4 pistols. It's fairly common knowledge that after Gaston retired, Glock hasn't been what they used to be.

March 6, 2013, 05:04 PM	#107
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	The brass to the face issue with Glocks has become all too common theses days. After Gaston retired, the kids decided to let the engineers play with cost cutting "improvements" like the ejector and MIM extractors. But there was always a basic flaw because Glock doesn't relieve the ejection port on any of their pistols and never have. It's about the only combat pistol in the world that doesn't have a relieved ejection port. If the ejector doesn't do its job properly, the ejecting case hits the lower part of the slide window harder than normal it bounces and gets struck by the front vertical part of the slide window, knocking the case straight back. And when I say harder than normal it's because brass being ejected from Glocks have always struck the lower slide window when ejecting and that is evidenced by the triangular scar you see at the casemouth on ejected Glock brass. A relieved ejection port would almost certainly help prevent that. Watch an AGI gunsmithing video on Glock pistols and you'll see that one of the recommendations they make is to have the ejection port relieved. This, polygonal rifling, loose chambers, poor sights and the incorrect grip angle are just some of the reasons I feel the XD/XDm is a superior pistol. No MIM in my pistol that I'm aware of either. Then look at the forward slide rails in the XD/XDm and they appear massive compared to Glocks and other polymer framed pistols. And those rails are integral to the locking block as a single and replaceable unit if ever necessary. I always liked the size of the grip on the G21, just not the Luger grip angle. But it made me realize that a .45 ACP polymer pistol would be a better fit for my large hands. So I considered the G21, FN FNP-USG, H&K USP and HK45 and the M&P. I ruled out the HK45 simply because $1000 is too much to pay for a polymer frame pistol and it is little more than a revision of the USP. The closest runner up was the M&P, but in a similar sized pistol, magazine capacity is 10 rounds vs 13 rounds for the XDm, and the XDm is still constructed better in terms of the chamberblock/rail issue I mentioned and the trigger on the M&P is more akin to the Glocks where the XDm is single action with a trigger that's very tuneable like the one in my pistol. Plus there's that "Match Grade" barrel in the XDm that's conventionally rifled. My XDm sees nothing but handloads with a lot of them being cast lead SWCs. Yeah, there are guys that shoot cast lead bullets in their pistols that have polygonal bores, but I don't want to be among them. I get superior accuracy with my XDm using jacketed or cast lead bullets. And to me, the positives of the grip safety far outweigh the negatives. Combined with the other issues I pointed out, the XDm is the best polymer framed pistol for ME. Last edited by 57K; March 6, 2013 at 05:12 PM.

March 6, 2013, 08:46 PM	#110
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	I didn't know I was suppose to hate it... I will have to tell my wife too so she can hate hers.... I like my XDs. __________________ Molon Labe

March 7, 2013, 06:17 AM	#116
dayman Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Location: The Woods Posts: 1,197	I kind of like it. I don't mind striker guns without a grip safety, but having it there is one more layer of passive safety. And, like other people have already said, I don;t actually notice it when I shoot. __________________ si vis pacem para bellum

March 7, 2013, 07:36 PM	#120
Gaerek Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Arizona Posts: 939	Is that why both your posts are about why the Glock sucks compared to the mighty XD? Seriously, maybe you need to re-read what you wrote. About that grip safety again? EDIT: Decided it just wasn't worth it for a gun brand war. Shoot what you like folks! Last edited by Gaerek; March 7, 2013 at 07:40 PM. Reason: Wanted to get out of the brand war.

March 7, 2013, 10:54 PM	#123
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	Why does every one hate the XD grip safety Oh God...57k. Please...seek and you shall find at its finest. I bet if Gaerek (hope I spelled it right. I'm on my phone) stooped to that negative level you're on, he can (or anyone with access to google or that matter) find just as bad of things wrong with the XD. Chill out.

March 6, 2013, 12:58 PM	#102
Lemmon Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2009 Location: Rural South Carolina Posts: 445	I Like the fact that it is one more method of keeping me from shooting my self. I love the 1911's and I now have the XDs 45 which is very small and a real pleasure to shoot. And it has a grip safety that I like..... Lemmon from Rural South Carolina

March 6, 2013, 03:04 PM	#106
Nakanokalronin Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2006 Posts: 1,066	I guess some brands aren't for everyone. 7 XD, 1 XDM, 1 XDS and two SA 1911s and none of them have ever had a single jam or malfunction with any ammo. I'm sure you had problems , just putting forth my experience with SA products.

March 6, 2013, 08:53 PM	#111
justplainpossum Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Location: duh, Texas! : ) Posts: 222	I am very happy I got the XDM, and I really like the safety grip.

March 6, 2013, 10:53 PM	#112
BerdanSS Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Location: to close to other houses Posts: 1,176	I don't hate the grip safety.......I hate the entire pistol

March 6, 2013, 10:58 PM	#113
BuckRub Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,046	The XDM - A wanna be Glock!

March 7, 2013, 01:52 AM	#115
jr24 Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2011 Posts: 870	Wasn't the grip safety that made me get rid of my XD9. I liked that feature. What I didn't like was the trigger (seemed to break really far back in the pull) and the "felt" recoil in my hands was much higher than my other 9mms. So it funded a SR9c.

March 7, 2013, 05:40 PM	#118
Gaerek Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Arizona Posts: 939	Hey guys, guess what I just learned! Chevy pick-ups are better than Ford!!! Oh, and Pepsi is far better than Coke! Anyone who uses an AK instead of an AR definitely has some screws loose! We can all spout off reasons why we prefer one gun or brand over the other. But last I checked, the topic was about the grip safety on the XD line. Not whether Glock has a MIM ejector, unsupported chamber (very few handguns have 100% fully supported chamber, XD is the exception, not the rule, see http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...rSupport-1.jpg for an example), or the XDs feel like you're trying to shoot a brick. So, about that grip safety again?

March 7, 2013, 07:22 PM	#119
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	Go back further than the last few posts and you'll see why the XD/XDm has a grip safety. My last post was addressed specifically to the statement that the XDm is a Glock wannabe. But even then I asked if anyone's heard of the term, XD Leg? The term "Glock Leg" has been around for 20 years and the grip safety on the XDm also prevents the slide going going out of battery when you holster it. More than a few LE officers have drawn a Glock only to find it would not fire because the slide was out of battery. HS Product/Springfield Armory addressed that with the addition of the grip safety. Do try and keep up!

March 7, 2013, 11:13 PM	#124
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	Constantine called it... __________________ Molon Labe

March 7, 2013, 11:31 PM	#125
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	Hey, I've owned Glocks and there is nothing I said that isn't fact. I've been shooting handguns for over 35 years and happen to know a thing or two about design because it's what I do for a living. I have pointed out the merits of the XDs grip safety and part of it was to prevent "Glock Leg". If that offends your Glock sensibilities, why are you reading this thread in the first place? And, I'm a member at XD Talk where Springfield Armory maintains one of the best reps in the industry for customer service. Every manufacturer lets a bad pistol slip out the door on occasion, but if it's a SA, you can bet they'll make it right. I suggest y'all visit the forum and you might want to peruse Glock Talk and see for yourself how many issues there have been with late gen 3 and gen 4 pistols. It's fairly common knowledge that after Gaston retired, Glock hasn't been what they used to be.