German 7.65 pistol

Crij · April 17, 2000, 10:05 PM

Recently I came into possession of a german made 7.65 auto-loading pistol. I am assuming that it is pre-WWI
because it has a symbol stamped into the frame and the slide that looks like the following.

|
-|-
|
/|\
/ | \
/ / \ \
/_/ \_\
\ \ / /
\ \___/ /
\/___\/

|\ |
| \ |
| \|

, Also on the slide it is marked
Deutche Werke Aktiengesellshaft Werke Erfurt
Ortgies? Patent

I am assuming that the first two and last two words of the first line mean that it was produced at a factory in Erfurt
Germany, is the middle word a model, or manufacturer?
Basically the gun is a 8 shot auto loader for 7.65/32 ACP, with a hidden hammer, grip safety, pivoting trigger,
frame mounted barrel, and the sights are part of the slide with a groove between them lower than the rear `V'.

Also on the wood grips there is an badge, approx. 12 mm across, that looks to be a high zinc brass, very yellow, with a stylized `D' that is an animal laying down, the head, neck and chest are the rear upright of the D, the front legs, body and rear legs form the lower part of the D, and the tail arches over the body and curves up and forward forming the rest of the D.

Overall the gun is 6.5 lg., 4.5 tall w/ a 3.5 lg. barrel.

Any information would be greatfully appreciated.

Thank you in advance,
Ritch Cizik

Steven Mace · April 17, 2000, 11:09 PM

Ritch, please look at the responses posted at http://204.235.96.21/NonCGI/Forum1/HTML/006099.html concerning your Ortgies handgun. Hope this helps!

Steve Mace

------------------
After today, its all historical

[This message has been edited by Steven Mace (edited April 18, 2000).]

Strayhorn · April 18, 2000, 09:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crij:
Recently I came into possession of a german made 7.65 auto-loading pistol. Also on the slide it is marked
Deutche Werke Aktiengesellshaft Werke Erfurt Ortgies? Patent
[/quote]

Congrats, you are the proud owner of an Ortgies pocket pistol, which was considered a top-of-the-line item in pre-War Germany. I've been trying to find a working example for several years now.

Ortgies where handmade of best quality materials and were, at the time, considered superior to Walther or Mauser products. Many were sold here in the US, altho I believe most examples came home in the pockets of victorious US servicemen. Their market was wealthy gentlemen who traveled and felt the need for some hidden security - the same market that the "Baby" Colts were aimed at.

You may have heard the story of George S Patton, dressed to the nines and on his way to a charity ball in NYC during the '30s, seeing a woman being rushed into a cab on a street corner by two men. Fearing evil, he leapt from his own cab and accosted the two men with the pistol he had on him. It turned out that the woman was eloping with one of the men, and the other man was a brother. As Patton related this tale at the ball, a woman remarked: "Why, George, do you always go armed?" His famous reply: "I always carry a pistol, even when wearing white tie." The pistol that Patton carried was an Ortiegs. (Source: Carlo D'Este's excellent "Patton: Triumph and Tragedy" which is, alas, out of print, altho his "Patton: A Genius for War" is still available)

The cocking piece is not a continous sear, but two "horns" that hold the striker. These horns tend to break - most examples I've seen at shows and auctions have broken sears, so if yours works, you have a real item on your hands.

Sorry, have no idea of value - don't follow the market that closely.

James K · April 18, 2000, 09:33 AM

The Ortgies pistols are interesting but not high in value, with a top of about $300.

Deutsche Werke A.G. is the company name which translates roughly as "German Factories, Inc." Ortgies was the designer.

Taking the pistol apart is easy. Pull the slide back and up while pushing in on the button on the left slide. The slide will come up and can be removed to the front over the barrel, like the Walthers.

When assembling, you have to look at the underside of the slide. You will see a little notch in the top. To assemble, push the firing pin spring guide forward and lock it into that notch. Then the gun goes together easily. No other way works.

Almost forgot. The mark you have drawn so laboriously is the normal "Crown N" Nitro proof mark used in Germany at that time.

Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim Keenan (edited April 18, 2000).]

James K · April 20, 2000, 12:40 AM

One more point. Don't try to remove the grips by prying them off. If you have to remove them, remove the magazine and look inside the magazine well. You will see a catch at the rear that has to be pushed back to release the grips.

Jim

April 17, 2000, 10:05 PM	#1
Crij Junior Member Join Date: October 9, 1999 Location: Brookfield, Ct, U.S.A. Posts: 8	Recently I came into possession of a german made 7.65 auto-loading pistol. I am assuming that it is pre-WWI because it has a symbol stamped into the frame and the slide that looks like the following. \| -\|- \| /\|\ / \| \ / / \ \ /_/ \_\ \ \ / / \ \___/ / \/___\/ \|\ \| \| \ \| \| \\| , Also on the slide it is marked Deutche Werke Aktiengesellshaft Werke Erfurt Ortgies? Patent I am assuming that the first two and last two words of the first line mean that it was produced at a factory in Erfurt Germany, is the middle word a model, or manufacturer? Basically the gun is a 8 shot auto loader for 7.65/32 ACP, with a hidden hammer, grip safety, pivoting trigger, frame mounted barrel, and the sights are part of the slide with a groove between them lower than the rear `V'. Also on the wood grips there is an badge, approx. 12 mm across, that looks to be a high zinc brass, very yellow, with a stylized `D' that is an animal laying down, the head, neck and chest are the rear upright of the D, the front legs, body and rear legs form the lower part of the D, and the tail arches over the body and curves up and forward forming the rest of the D. Overall the gun is 6.5 lg., 4.5 tall w/ a 3.5 lg. barrel. Any information would be greatfully appreciated. Thank you in advance, Ritch Cizik

April 17, 2000, 11:09 PM	#2
Steven Mace Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 1999 Location: Clifton, Colorado USA Posts: 724	Ritch, please look at the responses posted at http://204.235.96.21/NonCGI/Forum1/HTML/006099.html concerning your Ortgies handgun. Hope this helps! Steve Mace ------------------ After today, its all historical [This message has been edited by Steven Mace (edited April 18, 2000).]

April 18, 2000, 09:12 AM	#3
Strayhorn Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2000 Location: Central NC Posts: 339	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crij: Recently I came into possession of a german made 7.65 auto-loading pistol. Also on the slide it is marked Deutche Werke Aktiengesellshaft Werke Erfurt Ortgies? Patent [/quote] Congrats, you are the proud owner of an Ortgies pocket pistol, which was considered a top-of-the-line item in pre-War Germany. I've been trying to find a working example for several years now. Ortgies where handmade of best quality materials and were, at the time, considered superior to Walther or Mauser products. Many were sold here in the US, altho I believe most examples came home in the pockets of victorious US servicemen. Their market was wealthy gentlemen who traveled and felt the need for some hidden security - the same market that the "Baby" Colts were aimed at. You may have heard the story of George S Patton, dressed to the nines and on his way to a charity ball in NYC during the '30s, seeing a woman being rushed into a cab on a street corner by two men. Fearing evil, he leapt from his own cab and accosted the two men with the pistol he had on him. It turned out that the woman was eloping with one of the men, and the other man was a brother. As Patton related this tale at the ball, a woman remarked: "Why, George, do you always go armed?" His famous reply: "I always carry a pistol, even when wearing white tie." The pistol that Patton carried was an Ortiegs. (Source: Carlo D'Este's excellent "Patton: Triumph and Tragedy" which is, alas, out of print, altho his "Patton: A Genius for War" is still available) The cocking piece is not a continous sear, but two "horns" that hold the striker. These horns tend to break - most examples I've seen at shows and auctions have broken sears, so if yours works, you have a real item on your hands. Sorry, have no idea of value - don't follow the market that closely.

April 18, 2000, 09:33 AM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The Ortgies pistols are interesting but not high in value, with a top of about $300. Deutsche Werke A.G. is the company name which translates roughly as "German Factories, Inc." Ortgies was the designer. Taking the pistol apart is easy. Pull the slide back and up while pushing in on the button on the left slide. The slide will come up and can be removed to the front over the barrel, like the Walthers. When assembling, you have to look at the underside of the slide. You will see a little notch in the top. To assemble, push the firing pin spring guide forward and lock it into that notch. Then the gun goes together easily. No other way works. Almost forgot. The mark you have drawn so laboriously is the normal "Crown N" Nitro proof mark used in Germany at that time. Jim [This message has been edited by Jim Keenan (edited April 18, 2000).]

April 20, 2000, 12:40 AM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	One more point. Don't try to remove the grips by prying them off. If you have to remove them, remove the magazine and look inside the magazine well. You will see a catch at the rear that has to be pushed back to release the grips. Jim