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Old July 22, 2009, 10:33 PM   #1
Bubsy
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Crossing NY- NJ- PA state lines

I've been fortunate in having passed NYC's stringent pistol permit laws and have a Premises license in NYC with 4 guns registered on it (soon to be 5)

I work with teenagers from a "tough hood" whose families routinely have guns in their home. Unfortunately, they never get trained in gun safety so I hear about guns "accidentally going off" while cleaning every day.

So, I decided to take some of these teens with me from time to time to a pistol range in Pa for me to teach them gun safety rules and respect for a pistol.

Trouble is... I have a NYC premises permit which allows me to take my guns directly to a pistol range and back. I've read the "fine print" and there doesn't seem to be any restriction as to where the pistol range is to be located so from my reading of the "law", I should be able to take my pistols from NYC through NJ to Pa where they can be legally fired by anyone who accompanies me, is over 18, and doesn't have a felony on their record.

But I'm wondering if I'm missing something. Can I take my licensed guns from NYC through NJ to Pa for target practice at a range in Pa? I know NYC's law and Pa's law, but I'm not sure about NJ.

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Old July 22, 2009, 11:18 PM   #2
NavyLT
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Yes.

New Jersey honors FOPA, which is Federal Law:

18 USC 926a:

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/1...6---A000-.html
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Old July 23, 2009, 09:46 PM   #3
Bubsy
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Thanks NavyLT..

I really appreciate your reference to NJ law regarding my situation.

I do this to educate these young men about gun safety as well as how dangerous guns are in the wrong hands. So far, every one of them has been shocked by the power of even shooting a 38+p and they now respect what a handgun is capable of doing. I admire that and wish other guys "from the hood" could experience the same.

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Old July 23, 2009, 10:26 PM   #4
Hellbilly5000
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busby if worse comes to worse there iare alot of layers in nj that help get the proper permits just call one of them and ask to make sure or call the nj state troopers and have them fax a copy of the law to you with there name and badge # on the fax
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Old July 23, 2009, 10:46 PM   #5
NavyLT
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Bubsy,

That is not NJ law that I posted, it is a federal law. But, if you look at the NJ state police website:
http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_trans.html

you will see that NJ specifically honors 18 USC 926a (not that they have a choice, but New York seems to think they are exempt):

All firearms transported through the State of New Jersey:

Quote:
The following guidelines are provided in order to assist law enforcement officers in applying New Jersey's firearms laws to persons who are transporting firearms through the State of New Jersey.

1. New Jersey laws governing firearms permits, purchaser identification cards, registration and licenses do not apply to a person who is transporting the firearm through this State if that person is transporting the firearm in a manner permitted by federal law, 18 U.S.C.A. 926A.
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Old August 18, 2009, 08:22 PM   #6
ndbbm
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Just as NavyLT posted, there is no problem as long as you are not carrying on your person. NJSP website spells it out pretty clearly.
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Old August 21, 2009, 09:24 AM   #7
bikerbill
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Good grief ... I sympathize with you folks ... God Bless Texas!
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Old August 21, 2009, 10:56 AM   #8
Delaware_Dan
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Quote:
I should be able to take my pistols from NYC through NJ to Pa where they can be legally fired by anyone who accompanies me, is over 18, and doesn't have a felony on their record.
Depends what range. Targetmaster for example, they would have to be your kids. At most (indoor) PA ranges, they would only be able to shoot long guns because they are not 21 and they are not with their parents. I would check with the range that you are planing on going to before you make the trip. Their record doesn't matter either way as they dont do backround checks at the range. What range were you planing on going to?
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Old August 21, 2009, 02:04 PM   #9
NavyLT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerbill
Good grief ... I sympathize with you folks ... God Bless Texas!
Yeah, but in Texas you have to keep your guns hidden away like they are some sort of evil thing...
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Old August 23, 2009, 03:47 PM   #10
Dewhitewolf
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The law that NavyLT posted temporarily exempts you from state laws. You must follow the requirements of the federal law--must be unloaded, inaccessible to the passenger compartment, legal for you to possess in the state of origin (NY), legal for you to possess in the state of destination (PA), and you make no stops in between.

If you are concerned about NJ, if you are pulled over, you are not obligated to inform the officer that you have firearms in the trunk. Also, they cannot search your car due to a traffic stop, nor can they even ask your consent, as per the state supreme court in a 5-0 decision in State v. Carty, 170 N.J. 632, 790 A.2d 903.

Bottom line, once you initiate your intended interstate transport, state laws do not apply until you terminate your travel. You should have no problems in PA. However, as Delaware Dan suggested, contact the range before you go there, to make sure that you can bring kids there to shoot, and what they're allowed to shoot.
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Old August 23, 2009, 04:33 PM   #11
maestro pistolero
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Whatever the legal maze associated with transport, let me just say you are doing a very good thing.

Contained within firearms safety and firearms training are many valuable lessons. There is no richer opportunity to teach the value, preciousness, and fragility of human life, honor, trust, and responsibilty in the judicious use of force. Done properly, it is a character building experience that cannot be easily accomplished in any other way.

I believe the future of gun rights may depend on efforts such as yours. Thank you very much.
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Old August 30, 2009, 08:34 PM   #12
Bubsy
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Thanks for all who replied.

To Maestro.. thanks. I'm confident that when I teach them to respect a handgun and its power, they'll realize that it is not to be treated as a toy or played around with.

ToDelaware Dan... I visited the range that I go to and spoke with the proprietors the other day. They have no problem with an 18 or 19 year old firing my handguns at their range. Either their State ID (including a non-drivers Under 21 ID) or a High School photo ID would be acceptable.

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