9mm VS .40

waynedm · February 19, 2007, 10:46 AM

I want to get into some practical shooting. I know there is some shooting where you chrono the rounds for actual power and that's [a] deciding factor in the matches. I've always heard that .40 was a pretty popular round because of this say versus .45acp. Thing is, I want a CZ Champion, they are available in 9mm and .40sw. I prefer 9mm for cost and capacity. Should I really just say to hell with cost of ammo and get the .40sw?

HSMITH · February 19, 2007, 12:31 PM

That gun isn't really the one for anything. It will be put in Open class, yet has no optical sight. It is also well down on magazine capacity compared to the competition. My Open gun holds 22 in regular mags and 29 in the big stick. While I think it is a neat gun I don't think it is a good choice for USPSA shooting. BTW, shooting Open class is a handload only proposition if you weren't aware of that......

waynedm · February 19, 2007, 12:42 PM

I was going to try and find higher capacity mags for it.

What kind of gun are you running, Hsmith?

I didn't know it was a handloading deal only.

ryucasta · February 19, 2007, 02:31 PM

If you plan on competing in Open with 9x19 cartridges then it is a reloading proposition. If you were to compete in 40 S&W you should not need to reload.

Since you seem to like CZ Firearms I would suhggest that you go with either CZ 75B or CZ 75 SP-01 depending on how deep your pocket book is. With either firearm you should be able to compete in the SSP and ESP divisions of IDPA and in the Production and Limited/L10 divisions of USPSA (Note B model can compete in USPSA Limited/L10 Major if configured in 40 S&W).

rhgunguy · February 19, 2007, 05:40 PM

Big mags are available for the Champion, but as they said, you would have to reload for 9mm major. Some people run minor in open, but it realy defeats the purpose of the comp. You can also have a dot mounted.

HSMITH · February 19, 2007, 09:08 PM

wayne, I am running a couple STI's in a couple classes, Glocks and others in Production.

Clarification: If you want the compensator to work effectively you will need to handload, if you don't mind having the comp only work at part of its ability you can shoot factory ammo. This goes for basically all calibers.

Start out in an iron sight class, Production is a great way to get started and odds are pretty good you have a gun already that is legal for that class and will perform well.

waynedm · February 19, 2007, 10:06 PM

There is a never-fired .40 Champion at my work I can get for less than $900, I'm going to do some more research on mags and other rules and if it makes sense I'll get the Champion at my work since it's a good deal.

I'm sure I'll be in this part of the forum more and more as I try to figure out all of this practical stuff and possibly reloading down the road.

rhgunguy · February 19, 2007, 10:19 PM

You will be a bit behind the curve until you get a red-dot sight. It is hard to compete in open without one. I think that ghostholster.com has mag extensions, but I could be wrong. At any rate, they would be the people to ask even if they did not have them.

waynedm · February 19, 2007, 10:46 PM

Is a red dot mandatory? I've never shot with one, always with opens.

Joe D · February 20, 2007, 06:48 AM

It is difficult to get the comp working correctly with a .40. You will also be mag capacity challenged with the .40. Another option is the Witness Open gun. They both cost a good bit less than a 2011.
I like the CZ Tactical Sport gun in .40. I think with a little tinkering it can be a very good Limited or Lim 10 gun. It is a little heavy for some, but I like the weight. The Witness Limited is a pretty good gun also.
OTOH I am a Glock lover. I can shoot my G35 in Limited, Lim 10, Production, ESP and SSP. A Glock will not be the limiting factor in your march to Master. You can buy 3 Glocks for the price of a 2011.
Not knocking anyone's 2011 - I have one also, but IMO they are one of the most overpriced guns one can buy for competition. I can buy a brand new Glock 17 or 22 for the cost of a 2011 bare frame. What is wrong with this picture? An Edge or Eagle for $1700 - $1800 is hard to justify. Money is not an issue with me. I can buy 10 of them and not blink. I just think they are way overpriced.

HSMITH · February 20, 2007, 07:15 AM

The red dot allows you to maintain a target focus, your eyes never have to come back to the sights. The are also a lot easier to make long or tight shots with at high speed.

waynedm · February 20, 2007, 10:00 AM

I just read most of the rules for IPSC which is what I want to get into. I think I'm going to get the Champion and use it for Modified and Open and use my P89 for Production and Standard. I doubt I'll ever put any sort of optical on the Champion though unless I really need it for low light conditions.

Thanks, guys.

HSMITH · February 20, 2007, 12:25 PM

Unless you cross over into Canada you are going to have a hard time shooting IPSC. In the States you will be shooting USPSA, which is the US version of IPSC (it is a little more complicated than that, but that is the general idea). USPSA rules differ a little from IPSC, you can find them at www.uspsa.org

eerw · February 20, 2007, 12:39 PM

Champion is a nice gun..$900 is a good price..
the 9mm versions are all but impossible to find..why..don't know..

for open it is a little behind..highest capacity mags for the .40 are 12rnd mags..
unless you build some 170mm sticks..
if you were lucky enough to find one in 9mm..the 25rnd mag can be modified to hold 28-29rounds.

other than that..shoot what you want and don't worry about what's competitive until you shoot some..
open is a big $$ game..production and limited is great place for CZs to play..

waynedm · February 20, 2007, 01:26 PM

The place I was going to be shooting at does IPSC shooting and rules, not USPCA. Maybe they're weird?

I couldn't find any 9mm ones through work and I'm certainly not going to order one and pay the retail $1400 for one. Some people have mentioned places to go to get higher capacity magazines. I have a feeling National Magazines may make them, I just need to get hold of them. I know they make 35 round ones for the 9mm. CZUSA.com has 17 rounders for the .40 for $45.

February 19, 2007, 10:46 AM	#1
waynedm Junior member Join Date: January 31, 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 458	9mm VS .40 I want to get into some practical shooting. I know there is some shooting where you chrono the rounds for actual power and that's [a] deciding factor in the matches. I've always heard that .40 was a pretty popular round because of this say versus .45acp. Thing is, I want a CZ Champion, they are available in 9mm and .40sw. I prefer 9mm for cost and capacity. Should I really just say to hell with cost of ammo and get the .40sw?

February 19, 2007, 02:31 PM	#4
ryucasta Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 431	If you plan on competing in Open with 9x19 cartridges then it is a reloading proposition. If you were to compete in 40 S&W you should not need to reload. Since you seem to like CZ Firearms I would suhggest that you go with either CZ 75B or CZ 75 SP-01 depending on how deep your pocket book is. With either firearm you should be able to compete in the SSP and ESP divisions of IDPA and in the Production and Limited/L10 divisions of USPSA (Note B model can compete in USPSA Limited/L10 Major if configured in 40 S&W). __________________ Cheers, Raul Scarface/Tony Montana Says: Send me here. Send me there. This. That. Nothing you can do to me Harry, Castro didn’t do --- nothing...

February 20, 2007, 06:48 AM	#10
Joe D Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 1999 Location: Alabama Posts: 455	It is difficult to get the comp working correctly with a .40. You will also be mag capacity challenged with the .40. Another option is the Witness Open gun. They both cost a good bit less than a 2011. I like the CZ Tactical Sport gun in .40. I think with a little tinkering it can be a very good Limited or Lim 10 gun. It is a little heavy for some, but I like the weight. The Witness Limited is a pretty good gun also. OTOH I am a Glock lover. I can shoot my G35 in Limited, Lim 10, Production, ESP and SSP. A Glock will not be the limiting factor in your march to Master. You can buy 3 Glocks for the price of a 2011. Not knocking anyone's 2011 - I have one also, but IMO they are one of the most overpriced guns one can buy for competition. I can buy a brand new Glock 17 or 22 for the cost of a 2011 bare frame. What is wrong with this picture? An Edge or Eagle for $1700 - $1800 is hard to justify. Money is not an issue with me. I can buy 10 of them and not blink. I just think they are way overpriced. __________________ Miss? That can't be a miss. Looks like a perfect double to me.

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February 19, 2007, 12:31 PM	#2
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	That gun isn't really the one for anything. It will be put in Open class, yet has no optical sight. It is also well down on magazine capacity compared to the competition. My Open gun holds 22 in regular mags and 29 in the big stick. While I think it is a neat gun I don't think it is a good choice for USPSA shooting. BTW, shooting Open class is a handload only proposition if you weren't aware of that......

February 19, 2007, 12:42 PM	#3
waynedm Junior member Join Date: January 31, 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 458	I was going to try and find higher capacity mags for it. What kind of gun are you running, Hsmith? I didn't know it was a handloading deal only.

February 19, 2007, 05:40 PM	#5
rhgunguy Junior member Join Date: March 7, 2006 Posts: 1,057	Big mags are available for the Champion, but as they said, you would have to reload for 9mm major. Some people run minor in open, but it realy defeats the purpose of the comp. You can also have a dot mounted.

February 19, 2007, 09:08 PM	#6
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	wayne, I am running a couple STI's in a couple classes, Glocks and others in Production. Clarification: If you want the compensator to work effectively you will need to handload, if you don't mind having the comp only work at part of its ability you can shoot factory ammo. This goes for basically all calibers. Start out in an iron sight class, Production is a great way to get started and odds are pretty good you have a gun already that is legal for that class and will perform well.

February 19, 2007, 10:06 PM	#7
waynedm Junior member Join Date: January 31, 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 458	There is a never-fired .40 Champion at my work I can get for less than $900, I'm going to do some more research on mags and other rules and if it makes sense I'll get the Champion at my work since it's a good deal. I'm sure I'll be in this part of the forum more and more as I try to figure out all of this practical stuff and possibly reloading down the road.

February 19, 2007, 10:19 PM	#8
rhgunguy Junior member Join Date: March 7, 2006 Posts: 1,057	You will be a bit behind the curve until you get a red-dot sight. It is hard to compete in open without one. I think that ghostholster.com has mag extensions, but I could be wrong. At any rate, they would be the people to ask even if they did not have them.

February 19, 2007, 10:46 PM	#9
waynedm Junior member Join Date: January 31, 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 458	Is a red dot mandatory? I've never shot with one, always with opens.

February 20, 2007, 07:15 AM	#11
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	The red dot allows you to maintain a target focus, your eyes never have to come back to the sights. The are also a lot easier to make long or tight shots with at high speed.

February 20, 2007, 10:00 AM	#12
waynedm Junior member Join Date: January 31, 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 458	I just read most of the rules for IPSC which is what I want to get into. I think I'm going to get the Champion and use it for Modified and Open and use my P89 for Production and Standard. I doubt I'll ever put any sort of optical on the Champion though unless I really need it for low light conditions. Thanks, guys.

February 20, 2007, 12:25 PM	#13
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Unless you cross over into Canada you are going to have a hard time shooting IPSC. In the States you will be shooting USPSA, which is the US version of IPSC (it is a little more complicated than that, but that is the general idea). USPSA rules differ a little from IPSC, you can find them at www.uspsa.org

February 20, 2007, 12:39 PM	#14
eerw Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2001 Posts: 395	Champion is a nice gun..$900 is a good price.. the 9mm versions are all but impossible to find..why..don't know.. for open it is a little behind..highest capacity mags for the .40 are 12rnd mags.. unless you build some 170mm sticks.. if you were lucky enough to find one in 9mm..the 25rnd mag can be modified to hold 28-29rounds. other than that..shoot what you want and don't worry about what's competitive until you shoot some.. open is a big $$ game..production and limited is great place for CZs to play..

February 20, 2007, 01:26 PM	#15
waynedm Junior member Join Date: January 31, 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 458	The place I was going to be shooting at does IPSC shooting and rules, not USPCA. Maybe they're weird? I couldn't find any 9mm ones through work and I'm certainly not going to order one and pay the retail $1400 for one. Some people have mentioned places to go to get higher capacity magazines. I have a feeling National Magazines may make them, I just need to get hold of them. I know they make 35 round ones for the 9mm. CZUSA.com has 17 rounders for the .40 for $45.