Words have meanings... - Page 2

KenpoTex · October 31, 2010, 12:55 AM

Pax,

Great post.

I too have been in classes that incorporated "downrange" drills. I personally found them to be very helpful in the development and confirmation of my mindset and a boost to my confidence level. The caveat to this is that the instructors running the classes were very competent. I have no doubt that had any of the students in the classes not been capable, they would not have been allowed to participate (and the drills were voluntary, no one was required to participate).

As to the "big boy rules" thing. I agree with those who said that the phrase should be interpreted as "you are being treated like a professional...conduct yourself accordingly."
Using the phrase as an excuse for poor and/or unsafe gunhandling is inexcusable.

Hook686 · October 31, 2010, 11:40 AM

... People mean. - S.I. Hayakawa

No matter how you try to skin this, the meaning of any and all words are relative to the observer.

igor · November 28, 2010, 06:59 AM

This is the first that I hear about stuff like this outside, like, Russia or such.

In military training 20 years ago it was heavily relied on that there was no ammunition available outside very separate and very seldom live fire excercises. The habits developed were godawful. The four rules hadn't landed on these shores by that time at all - the only rule I ever saw said "never point a weapon at any person but the enemy" but even that was interpreted such that any buddy posing as enemy during excercise was open season. Even shooting blanks, with the blank firing muzzle device in place - some of which could be loose and fly off the muzzle any time too.

Nowadays it's all IPSC style and very strict, no problem there. For military purposes I've been to some more "dynamic" training which were conducted without personal RO'ing - individual range practice considerably exceeding the usual 180 degrees sectors, everyone responsible for clearing their own weapon, team drills conducted in dry firing mode, doing full 360 drills in e.g. room clearing that way and observing not a single violation of the four rules.

Still it wouldn't even occur to even these instructors with 20+ years of training and missions behind them to be sending anyone in front of anyone else's muzzle for "confidence building", for heaven's sake.

October 31, 2010, 12:55 AM	#26
KenpoTex Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2009 Location: SW Missouri Posts: 215	Pax, Great post. I too have been in classes that incorporated "downrange" drills. I personally found them to be very helpful in the development and confirmation of my mindset and a boost to my confidence level. The caveat to this is that the instructors running the classes were very competent. I have no doubt that had any of the students in the classes not been capable, they would not have been allowed to participate (and the drills were voluntary, no one was required to participate). As to the "big boy rules" thing. I agree with those who said that the phrase should be interpreted as "you are being treated like a professional...conduct yourself accordingly." Using the phrase as an excuse for poor and/or unsafe gunhandling is inexcusable. __________________ "Either you are the weapon and your gun is a tool, or your gun is the weapon and you are a tool." Matt K.

October 31, 2010, 11:40 AM	#27
Hook686 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2005 Location: USA The Great State of California Posts: 2,090	Words do not mean, ... ... People mean. - S.I. Hayakawa No matter how you try to skin this, the meaning of any and all words are relative to the observer. __________________ Hook686 When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides.

November 28, 2010, 06:59 AM	#28
igor Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2002 Location: Kalifornistan Posts: 155	This is the first that I hear about stuff like this outside, like, Russia or such. In military training 20 years ago it was heavily relied on that there was no ammunition available outside very separate and very seldom live fire excercises. The habits developed were godawful. The four rules hadn't landed on these shores by that time at all - the only rule I ever saw said "never point a weapon at any person but the enemy" but even that was interpreted such that any buddy posing as enemy during excercise was open season. Even shooting blanks, with the blank firing muzzle device in place - some of which could be loose and fly off the muzzle any time too. Nowadays it's all IPSC style and very strict, no problem there. For military purposes I've been to some more "dynamic" training which were conducted without personal RO'ing - individual range practice considerably exceeding the usual 180 degrees sectors, everyone responsible for clearing their own weapon, team drills conducted in dry firing mode, doing full 360 drills in e.g. room clearing that way and observing not a single violation of the four rules. Still it wouldn't even occur to even these instructors with 20+ years of training and missions behind them to be sending anyone in front of anyone else's muzzle for "confidence building", for heaven's sake. __________________ Good karateka I have known were intelligent, original, capable, unpredictable, aggressive, brave, and dangerous. Most had a dark side. Daily practice for decades at hurting other people does not make liberals. John Farnam quoting a friend, Feb. 2004