Questions about .45 ACP brass

HappySig · April 26, 2010, 10:10 PM

I was given quite a quantity of 45 ACP brass and while some of the head stamps are S & B, Winchester, Federal, ETC... a couple of the head stamps I do not recognize. I'm wondering if they are military brass and I'm wondering if they are Beardan primed. I have no idea how to tell the difference between Beardan and boxer primed. Which of course asked the question, can I reload these? What happens if I reload these and they are Beardan primed?

The head stamps are as follows:

TZZ 85
WCC 80 MATCH
WCC 84

any help will be greatly appreciated.

That'll Do · April 26, 2010, 10:29 PM

To tell the difference between Boxer and Berdan primed brass, look inside the case. A Berdan-primed case will have two small flash holes, instead of one large flash hole with the Boxer-primed brass.

I know the WCC headstamp is military brass for sure. The number is the year the brass was produced, if I recall correctly.

Loader9 · April 26, 2010, 10:39 PM

WCC 80 Match= Winchester Cartridge Co 1980 match grade ammo
WCC 84 Winchester Cartridge Co 1984 ball ammo

TZZ 85 Israeli Mfr, ball ammo.

I'd check for a single flash hole in the TZZ stuff. Otherwise, it should be good brass. The WCC is great brass and will last you many reloadings.

kraigwy · April 26, 2010, 10:58 PM

TZZ is boxer primed, but its crimped. You're gonna have to swedge or otherwise remove the crimp before you reload it.

Other then that its good brass.

HappySig · April 27, 2010, 12:05 PM

thanks everyone for your replies, The TZZ brass has only 1 flash hole, so I'm good to go there. I will remove the crimp after resizing, using the decaping die, when I bell the mouth open.

again, thanks for your help and this is extremely good news to me because I was given this quantity of brass, so that means that these reloads will be literally pennies a shell.

Coffeeshop123 · April 27, 2010, 04:47 PM

Yep...Berdan primed cases actually can be reloaded, but you need a special tool to remove the primers (or jsut fill 'em with water) and the primers themselves are different. Too much trouble in my opinion. I love getting those big "odd lots" of brass; if accuracy is an issue I separate them by manufacturer but for just plinking or messing around, no need to do even that.

I've even seen brass by Wolf and other Russian manufacture that is Boxer primed, about the only time I've seen Berdan-primed brass is on foreign rifle cases.

hoistfixer · April 29, 2010, 11:46 AM

"I was given quite a quantity of 45 ACP brass"

"The OAL is 1.272 to 1.274 before resizing."

The nature of your question suggests these are just 45 ACP brass not loaded rounds. If this is correct the OAL length of 45 ACP brass is supposed to be between .888" and .898".

That being said, are you sure these are 45 ACP?

Let me know if I misread/misunderstood your description.

HappySig · April 29, 2010, 12:01 PM

yes you are correct. I removed that from the original post. and yes they are all .45 ACP brass.

Nate1778 · April 29, 2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

WCC 80 Match= Winchester Cartridge Co 1980 match grade ammo
WCC 84 Winchester Cartridge Co 1984 ball ammo

Western Cartridge Company, but I do believe they own Winchester. "WIN" is Winchesters mark.

vranasaurus · April 29, 2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

I will remove the crimp after resizing, using the decaping die, when I bell the mouth open.

The primer is crimped which requires you to swage or otehrwise remove the crimp from the primer pocket or you won't be able to seat a new primer.

rdmallory · April 29, 2010, 07:39 PM

Be sure to check and make sure they all have the large primers. You can have issues trying to to put a large primer in a small hole.

Doug

Red_Eagle · April 29, 2010, 10:06 PM

Make sure you swag the Sellier & Ballet too. They're crimped in and the primer pocket is slightly under sized. Once it's preped, it's great.

chris in va · April 30, 2010, 12:37 AM

And...and...not sure on 45, but some of the S&B 9mm are steel. They look exactly like brass, but run a strong magnet through the pile and SURPRISE!

11B-101ABN · April 30, 2010, 09:13 AM

Most "MATCH" brass does Not have a primer crimp because it was not made for automatic weapons. Whatever method you use to get the crimp out will only make the primer pocket loose if there is no crimp there to begin with.

MR 8x57js · May 2, 2010, 08:42 AM

The brass cases marked TZZ is made by IMI for there Military
The brass caes marked WCC is made by Winchester made for the US Military

freakshow10mm · May 2, 2010, 09:14 AM

Yes, WCC is the military arm of Winchester Ammunition Company, owned and operated by Olin. Last count I think there are 7 or 8 separate companies associated with Olin/Winchester.

I've been loading my commercial reloads in WCC 86 .45 brass for a couple months. Good stuff. TJ Conevera had a buttload of brass in stock last fall and I jumped on a bunch of it. Down to the last few thousand cases now.

coptersteve · May 2, 2010, 10:47 AM

I had the same question a couple of months ago. One forum member sent me to this web site http:// cartridgecollectors.org. then go to the headstamps code section. More information on every headstamp out there than you need.
I to received a bunch of 45 brass and had to weed through all of it.

April 26, 2010, 10:10 PM	#1
HappySig Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 51	Questions about .45 ACP brass I was given quite a quantity of 45 ACP brass and while some of the head stamps are S & B, Winchester, Federal, ETC... a couple of the head stamps I do not recognize. I'm wondering if they are military brass and I'm wondering if they are Beardan primed. I have no idea how to tell the difference between Beardan and boxer primed. Which of course asked the question, can I reload these? What happens if I reload these and they are Beardan primed? The head stamps are as follows: TZZ 85 WCC 80 MATCH WCC 84 any help will be greatly appreciated. Last edited by HappySig; April 29, 2010 at 11:57 AM.

April 26, 2010, 10:58 PM	#4
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	TZZ is boxer primed, but its crimped. You're gonna have to swedge or otherwise remove the crimp before you reload it. Other then that its good brass. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

April 27, 2010, 12:05 PM	#5
HappySig Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 51	many thanks thanks everyone for your replies, The TZZ brass has only 1 flash hole, so I'm good to go there. I will remove the crimp after resizing, using the decaping die, when I bell the mouth open. again, thanks for your help and this is extremely good news to me because I was given this quantity of brass, so that means that these reloads will be literally pennies a shell.

April 27, 2010, 04:47 PM	#6
Coffeeshop123 Member Join Date: April 27, 2010 Posts: 20	Berdan/Boxer Yep...Berdan primed cases actually can be reloaded, but you need a special tool to remove the primers (or jsut fill 'em with water) and the primers themselves are different. Too much trouble in my opinion. I love getting those big "odd lots" of brass; if accuracy is an issue I separate them by manufacturer but for just plinking or messing around, no need to do even that. I've even seen brass by Wolf and other Russian manufacture that is Boxer primed, about the only time I've seen Berdan-primed brass is on foreign rifle cases.

April 29, 2010, 11:46 AM	#7
hoistfixer Member Join Date: December 31, 2008 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 30	Question of OAL "I was given quite a quantity of 45 ACP brass" "The OAL is 1.272 to 1.274 before resizing." The nature of your question suggests these are just 45 ACP brass not loaded rounds. If this is correct the OAL length of 45 ACP brass is supposed to be between .888" and .898". That being said, are you sure these are 45 ACP? Let me know if I misread/misunderstood your description.

April 26, 2010, 10:29 PM	#2
That'll Do Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 546	To tell the difference between Boxer and Berdan primed brass, look inside the case. A Berdan-primed case will have two small flash holes, instead of one large flash hole with the Boxer-primed brass. I know the WCC headstamp is military brass for sure. The number is the year the brass was produced, if I recall correctly.

April 26, 2010, 10:39 PM	#3
Loader9 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2008 Posts: 949	WCC 80 Match= Winchester Cartridge Co 1980 match grade ammo WCC 84 Winchester Cartridge Co 1984 ball ammo TZZ 85 Israeli Mfr, ball ammo. I'd check for a single flash hole in the TZZ stuff. Otherwise, it should be good brass. The WCC is great brass and will last you many reloadings.

April 29, 2010, 12:01 PM	#8
HappySig Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 51	wrong info, my fault yes you are correct. I removed that from the original post. and yes they are all .45 ACP brass.

April 29, 2010, 07:39 PM	#11
rdmallory Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2009 Location: Deltona FL Posts: 953	Be sure to check and make sure they all have the large primers. You can have issues trying to to put a large primer in a small hole. Doug

April 29, 2010, 10:06 PM	#12
Red_Eagle Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2007 Location: Western NY Posts: 598	Make sure you swag the Sellier & Ballet too. They're crimped in and the primer pocket is slightly under sized. Once it's preped, it's great. __________________ My Calibers: 22 Hornet, 223 Rem, 22-250, 243 Win, 270 Win, 280 Remington Ackley Improved, 30-30, 308 Win, 30-06, 300 Winchester magnum, 7.62x39mm, 380 Auto, 9mm Parabellum, 38 Special, 357 magnum, 40 S&W, 10mm Auto, 45 GAP, 45 Auto, 12 & 20 Guage

April 30, 2010, 12:37 AM	#13
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	And...and...not sure on 45, but some of the S&B 9mm are steel. They look exactly like brass, but run a strong magnet through the pile and SURPRISE!

April 30, 2010, 09:13 AM	#14
11B-101ABN Member Join Date: March 29, 2010 Location: Eastern Iowa USA Posts: 47	Most "MATCH" brass does Not have a primer crimp because it was not made for automatic weapons. Whatever method you use to get the crimp out will only make the primer pocket loose if there is no crimp there to begin with.

May 2, 2010, 08:42 AM	#15
MR 8x57js Member Join Date: February 7, 2010 Posts: 36	The brass cases marked TZZ is made by IMI for there Military The brass caes marked WCC is made by Winchester made for the US Military

May 2, 2010, 09:14 AM	#16
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	Yes, WCC is the military arm of Winchester Ammunition Company, owned and operated by Olin. Last count I think there are 7 or 8 separate companies associated with Olin/Winchester. I've been loading my commercial reloads in WCC 86 .45 brass for a couple months. Good stuff. TJ Conevera had a buttload of brass in stock last fall and I jumped on a bunch of it. Down to the last few thousand cases now.

May 2, 2010, 10:47 AM	#17
coptersteve Member Join Date: January 30, 2010 Location: Eagle Point Oregon Posts: 27	.45 acp brass I had the same question a couple of months ago. One forum member sent me to this web site http:// cartridgecollectors.org. then go to the headstamps code section. More information on every headstamp out there than you need. I to received a bunch of 45 brass and had to weed through all of it.