Colt 1911 Sight Picture

Roland Thunder · December 20, 2016, 11:24 PM

I have a Colt XSE Government model 1911. Does anyone know if the sight picture is 6 O'clock hold or center mass. I don't have the manual handy or I would look it up

**Aguila Blanca** · December 20, 2016, 11:51 PM

Center hold

HiBC · December 21, 2016, 12:14 AM

I'm not trying to be a smart alec,but the way to KNOW the answer to that is shoot it.Shoot about three magazines at the same precise point.Then see what you get.That point CAN be 6 oclock on a round bull.The 6 is your point of aim to reference.
My eyes see the sight alignment more precisely against the contrasting light color of the target.

Realize a change of grip squeeze or bullet weight,etc can change your results.

RickB · December 21, 2016, 01:20 PM

A 6:00 hold requires a known target size and known target distance, so there's no way a gun can come from the factory sighted for a 6:00 hold without those specifics (6" bull at 25 yards, etc.).
Firing a few groups at 25 yards will give you the POA/POI relationship.

reddog81 · December 21, 2016, 08:04 PM

I'd second what HiBC said. It all depends on how you hold the gun and the ammo you're shooting.

pete2 · December 22, 2016, 10:12 AM

Shoot the gun and see where it hits. I've had several that shot about 6" low at 25 yards. For a s/d gun to shoot about an inch above the sights at 25 Yards, if it shoots low you can't see a small target to hit it. You need adjustable sights if you want to shoot bulls eye.

ammo.crafter · December 22, 2016, 10:34 AM

Some shooters like a center aim and others a 6:00 hold.

A 6:00 hold allows the shooter to see the entire center of the target as you are shooting at while a center hold does not.

Depends on what you are comfortable with. Shoot both ways and make a determination.

I use 6:00 for iron sights and center hold for red dots.

Have fun.

**Aguila Blanca** · December 22, 2016, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ammo.crafter

A 6:00 hold allows the shooter to see the entire center of the target as you are shooting at while a center hold d

But if the intent is to hit the center of the bullseye, as RickB pointed out you can only have the sights regulated for one size bullseye at one pre-established distance. At any other distance or different size bullseye, parallax will result in a POI that's not in the center of the bullseye. On the other hand, the center is always the center.

Pretty much all current makers of handguns have the sights set up (as much as possible, considering variations in both visual perception and shooting technique) for center hold.

tipoc · December 27, 2016, 12:06 PM

A fixed sight 1911 is traditionally (for over a century) sighted in for a 230 gr. bullet and a 6 o'clock hold at 25 yards. With a traditionally sized 6" bull that places impact in the center, about 3" impact above point of aim. Bullet impact will be lower on the target with a lighter bullet. So in a piece sighted in for 230 gr. bullet at 25 yards impact with a 185 gr. pill can be "point of aim, point of impact" or close to it.

In manufacturing there is a formula for this that varies only with the length of the slide on fixed sight guns and presumes a standard bullet weight. That is a relationship between the height of the front and rear sights that will differ with the length of the slide.

In practice this only makes a difference in bullseye shooting and hunting. In defensive shooting it makes little to no practical difference.

As others have said go out and shoot the gun and learn for yourself. The gun in your hands will tell you.

tipoc

December 20, 2016, 11:24 PM	#1
Roland Thunder Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Gwinnett County Georgia Posts: 1,136	Colt 1911 Sight Picture I have a Colt XSE Government model 1911. Does anyone know if the sight picture is 6 O'clock hold or center mass. I don't have the manual handy or I would look it up __________________ Do not follow where the path may lead, go, instead where there is no path and leave a trail - Ralph Waldo Emerson

December 21, 2016, 01:20 PM	#4
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	A 6:00 hold requires a known target size and known target distance, so there's no way a gun can come from the factory sighted for a 6:00 hold without those specifics (6" bull at 25 yards, etc.). Firing a few groups at 25 yards will give you the POA/POI relationship. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

December 22, 2016, 10:34 AM	#7
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	1911 Some shooters like a center aim and others a 6:00 hold. A 6:00 hold allows the shooter to see the entire center of the target as you are shooting at while a center hold does not. Depends on what you are comfortable with. Shoot both ways and make a determination. I use 6:00 for iron sights and center hold for red dots. Have fun. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

December 27, 2016, 12:06 PM	#9
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	A fixed sight 1911 is traditionally (for over a century) sighted in for a 230 gr. bullet and a 6 o'clock hold at 25 yards. With a traditionally sized 6" bull that places impact in the center, about 3" impact above point of aim. Bullet impact will be lower on the target with a lighter bullet. So in a piece sighted in for 230 gr. bullet at 25 yards impact with a 185 gr. pill can be "point of aim, point of impact" or close to it. In manufacturing there is a formula for this that varies only with the length of the slide on fixed sight guns and presumes a standard bullet weight. That is a relationship between the height of the front and rear sights that will differ with the length of the slide. In practice this only makes a difference in bullseye shooting and hunting. In defensive shooting it makes little to no practical difference. As others have said go out and shoot the gun and learn for yourself. The gun in your hands will tell you. tipoc Last edited by tipoc; December 27, 2016 at 12:35 PM.

December 20, 2016, 11:51 PM	#2
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	Center hold

December 21, 2016, 12:14 AM	#3
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	I'm not trying to be a smart alec,but the way to KNOW the answer to that is shoot it.Shoot about three magazines at the same precise point.Then see what you get.That point CAN be 6 oclock on a round bull.The 6 is your point of aim to reference. My eyes see the sight alignment more precisely against the contrasting light color of the target. Realize a change of grip squeeze or bullet weight,etc can change your results.

December 21, 2016, 08:04 PM	#5
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	I'd second what HiBC said. It all depends on how you hold the gun and the ammo you're shooting.

December 22, 2016, 10:12 AM	#6
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	Shoot the gun and see where it hits. I've had several that shot about 6" low at 25 yards. For a s/d gun to shoot about an inch above the sights at 25 Yards, if it shoots low you can't see a small target to hit it. You need adjustable sights if you want to shoot bulls eye.