USPSTF recommends depression screening for all adults.... - Page 3

wogpotter · February 6, 2016, 10:39 AM

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In other words, "perfect", or nearly so.

& we have a winner.
The only acceptable standard is perfection.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 6, 2016, 11:04 AM

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Originally Posted by SailingOnBy

However, the implications here that this study is some clandestine attempt by Obama to take our guns is absurd.

Perhaps this study is not a direct attempt to further gun control (but it may be), but that doesn't mean Obama isn't using every trick he can dredge up to do just that.

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Getting a gauge on how many Americans really do suffer some level of depression is a good thing. It's not a secret plan to disarm Americans. Having said that, if someone is judged to be a legitimate threat to himself or others then of course them having a firearm is a bad idea.

As always, the devil is in the details. As a senior citizen who receives Social Security and a Vietnam veteran who uses the VA health "care" system, I am twice in the crosshairs. It is a documented fact that both the VA and the Social Security Administration now report benefit recipients who have appointed fiduciaries to NICS, thereby making those people into prohibited persons. This is not done with any sort of hearing or "adjudication," as prescribed by law. It is being done by administrative fiat.

As a recipient of VA health "care," I know that they are actively seeking to classify people as having PTSD. You may argue that this is legitimate, in view of the increasing numbers of soldiers and veterans who have served in the middle east and who return home only to commit murder and/or suicide. Is there a problem? Yes, there is. But IMHO using a moronically basic questionnaire such as discussed early in this thread to "diagnose" someone as being "depressed" or as having PTSD (which is likely what many VA providers will do if the test indicates depression) is not the answer.

If you follow veterans news from reliable sources, such as the VFW, you'll find that the VA is actively seeking to classify veterans as suffering from PTSD. Sure, they want to identify those who need help. But ... they don't have the staffing, facilities, or funding to help all those who need help. So their answer is to classify MORE veterans who [allegedly] need help, so they can justify getting more money from the .gov. The fact that many of these veterans who are "identified" as having PTSD either don't have it, or have it to a mild degree and will never be a threat to anyone doesn't matter. The diagnosis is one-size-fits-all. Get tagged with PTSD and you get reported to NICS. PRESTO! You are now a prohibited person -- FOR LIFE -- unless you can afford an attorney and a battery of private shrinks to reverse the diagnosis and the NICS report.

If you think this is not something intentional on the part of the Obama adminsitration, let me introduce you to my pretty pink unicorn.

hikingman · February 6, 2016, 11:38 AM

If they start by checking those (in the U.S.) that have consumed a prescribed medication for depression in the last say-40 years-that should keep the checkers busy for about the next 25 years. And, those of us that neither have depression, nor have been prescribed medication of any kind might be 'free' to move around and continue to enjoy life in our usual, boring way.

kilimanjaro · February 7, 2016, 08:17 PM

I've read that a not-insubstantial segment of the mental health industry feels that anyone with the desire to own a gun is unbalanced. A Catch 22 kind of thing.

**44 AMP** · February 8, 2016, 11:25 AM

Several pre-internet decades ago I read a short sci-fi story, nearly all of which I have forgotten, except for a couple of the plot devices.

A future world, where any interest in weapons was considered a mental illness, and the main character was waiting to be sent to a "treatment camp" because he had been found in possession of "illegal pornography", some old gun magazines that had belonged to his (grand?) father, which he had kept.

Today, the idea seems to be less of an impossible fantasy than it did then.....

To the people (and gun) control people, everyone fits into one of two categories. Those who have been diagnosed as "depressed" (and not safe to possess weapons), and those who have not been diagnosed, YET.

PTSD isn't just something that happens to combat veterans. Depending on who is doing the evaluation, EVERYONE is a potential PTSD case. All they need do is "adjust" what constitutes "traumatic stress". Anyone who has ever lost a loved one, including the natural passing of a grandparent or parent can be fitted into that group with a simple change of the parameters by a "doctor".

For some, not being chosen Prom Queen might be "traumatic stress". It all depends on who is making the rules, and what their ultimate agenda really is.

wogpotter · February 8, 2016, 12:41 PM

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To the people (and gun) control people, everyone fits into one of two categories. Those who have been diagnosed as "depressed" (and not safe to possess weapons), and those who have not been diagnosed, YET.

Agreed, but its now being expanded to include "Clinical Depression" along with PTSD, & so the net is widened in tiny increments as we go along. The flaw is they're turning the heat under the pan up a bit too fast & the frog is beginning to notice!

AlabamaFamilyMan · February 8, 2016, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:
In other words, "perfect", or nearly so.

& we have a winner.
The only acceptable standard is perfection.

-wogpotter

Ahhhh, delusions of grandeur...

aarondhgraham · February 8, 2016, 02:19 PM

Now I want all the people who laughed at me for reading science fiction to apologize.

This is the government control by drugs we were warned about in the 60's.

I feel so vindicated.

Aarond

.

wogpotter · February 8, 2016, 04:35 PM

More like "The Machine Stops" by E. M. Forster.

Skans · February 8, 2016, 06:38 PM

Does this mean that the 2017 "revised" 4473 will include an extra page for gun owners to undergo this evaluation too?

I have to wonder how much of our tax dollars went into this "study" to come up with these stupid questions!

The bottom line: I will never seek evaluation, treatment or even conversation with a psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker, psych teacher, or even a psych-student ever. Long gone are the days when this kind of information was confidential and could not be used against you to prevent you from exercising your God given freedoms.

Clock · February 8, 2016, 08:05 PM

I've been watching the election on CNN & there have been a lot of the candidates doing or saying things that if not irrational, don't seem to be very helpful in getting the nomination. A couple of them seem to be in need of medication or counseling. If our best & brightest may be a bit off, then what about the rest of us?

turkeestalker · February 8, 2016, 09:15 PM

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If our best & brightest may be a bit off

Not sure about anyone else, but I'll not be claiming any to be my best and brightest!

kilimanjaro · February 8, 2016, 09:41 PM

The whole world is crazy except for you and I, but sometimes I wonder about you.

February 6, 2016, 11:38 AM	#53
hikingman Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2004 Location: Alabama Posts: 301	If they start by checking those (in the U.S.) that have consumed a prescribed medication for depression in the last say-40 years-that should keep the checkers busy for about the next 25 years. And, those of us that neither have depression, nor have been prescribed medication of any kind might be 'free' to move around and continue to enjoy life in our usual, boring way. __________________ NRA Life Member

February 8, 2016, 11:25 AM	#55
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,818	Several pre-internet decades ago I read a short sci-fi story, nearly all of which I have forgotten, except for a couple of the plot devices. A future world, where any interest in weapons was considered a mental illness, and the main character was waiting to be sent to a "treatment camp" because he had been found in possession of "illegal pornography", some old gun magazines that had belonged to his (grand?) father, which he had kept. Today, the idea seems to be less of an impossible fantasy than it did then..... To the people (and gun) control people, everyone fits into one of two categories. Those who have been diagnosed as "depressed" (and not safe to possess weapons), and those who have not been diagnosed, YET. PTSD isn't just something that happens to combat veterans. Depending on who is doing the evaluation, EVERYONE is a potential PTSD case. All they need do is "adjust" what constitutes "traumatic stress". Anyone who has ever lost a loved one, including the natural passing of a grandparent or parent can be fitted into that group with a simple change of the parameters by a "doctor". For some, not being chosen Prom Queen might be "traumatic stress". It all depends on who is making the rules, and what their ultimate agenda really is. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 8, 2016, 02:19 PM	#58
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Shades of THX1113,,, Now I want all the people who laughed at me for reading science fiction to apologize. This is the government control by drugs we were warned about in the 60's. I feel so vindicated. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

February 8, 2016, 04:35 PM	#59
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	More like "The Machine Stops" by E. M. Forster. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

February 8, 2016, 08:05 PM	#61
Clock Member Join Date: November 29, 2015 Posts: 77	Group of people who may need help I've been watching the election on CNN & there have been a lot of the candidates doing or saying things that if not irrational, don't seem to be very helpful in getting the nomination. A couple of them seem to be in need of medication or counseling. If our best & brightest may be a bit off, then what about the rest of us?

February 7, 2016, 08:17 PM	#54
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	I've read that a not-insubstantial segment of the mental health industry feels that anyone with the desire to own a gun is unbalanced. A Catch 22 kind of thing.

February 8, 2016, 06:38 PM	#60
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Does this mean that the 2017 "revised" 4473 will include an extra page for gun owners to undergo this evaluation too? I have to wonder how much of our tax dollars went into this "study" to come up with these stupid questions! The bottom line: I will never seek evaluation, treatment or even conversation with a psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker, psych teacher, or even a psych-student ever. Long gone are the days when this kind of information was confidential and could not be used against you to prevent you from exercising your God given freedoms.

February 8, 2016, 09:41 PM	#63
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	The whole world is crazy except for you and I, but sometimes I wonder about you.