.270 vs .30-06

[Clark]

This is a 1956 Win M70 30-06 that I got used in 2005

The previous owner shot:
2 grizzlies
6 moose
10 mountain goats
6 sheep
109 Sitka Black tailed deer
16 black bear
2 caribou

Then he died, and his nephew sold it to me.

I put a different stock, barrel, scope, sling, and bi pod on it that add up to 8.75 pounds.
It is now a 270

I shot 4 mule deer with it in 2008.
I shot 4 mule deer with it in 2009.

[RaySendero]

Striker1 asked:

Anyone here ever tried the .270 out past 400, 500...?

Yes - Clay Pigeons at 500

[RC20]

I would wring them both out for accuracy and see which is the inherent better shooter.

Then go with the best one.

Lead Slead if its too close to call.

Both as good a cartridge as you will find on the planet.

[375NE]

"If I were to go on a trip to Wyoming, to shoot speed goats, I'd pack my .270 win, and plenty of 130 grn Ballistic tips."

Ummm... what's a speed goat?

[TNT]

not knocking the .270 it seems well enough but I like the the .06 for range and versatility. Been around allot longer and can be loaded up or down for a variety of applications. But I look at shooting like racing "no replacement for displacement" .06 gets my vote

[hooligan1]

Ummmmm,,,,,What's a speedgoat??? Pronghorn Antelope.

[Pathfinder45]

Anyone here ever tried the .270 out past 400, 500...?

Certainly. Water filled milk jugs, 450 yards, sitting position, Winchester model 70 Classic Sporter. My rifle shoots best beyond 300 yards with 150 grain Nosler Partitions running near the red-line, 3,000 fps at the muzzle.

[Striker1]

500 is the farthest I have had the opportunity to shoot mine...it got there okay.

[FairWarning]

If all you would ever do again is hunt elk or smaller game in North America, the .270 is hard to beat. Less recoil and a flatter trajectory than the '06.

But for anyone that values versatility and having plentiful surplus rounds available, not to mention interest in bigger game from time to time, the '06 wins.

If you have a big Magnum rifle for bigger game, then I guess you could have your cake and eat it too by using the .270 up to mule deer and the Magnum for everything else. But of course, that's costs more money. The '06 can do both in one package. But we all have choices.

[Striker1]

My decision had more to do with the rifle itself than caliber...but, I did want a common old school caliber that wasn't boutique expensive and could be found most anywhere. Another thing I like is I can go to the range and shoot 40 or so rounds without taking a beating.

As to trajectory, what is the difference between say .270, 30-06 and maybe 7mm Mag?

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by Striker1

As to trajectory, what is the difference between say .270, 30-06 and maybe 7mm Mag?

Unfortunately, this app doesn't list 7mm Mag but here is:

Cartridge 1, 270Win; 130gr, 2, 30-06 180gr, 300win Mag 180gr



270 150gr looks like this:



And versus 270WSM 150gr:

[Striker1]

Thanks Brian,

Doesn't look all that much different to me?

[Art Eatman]

There's not all that much difference in the trajectories. And certainly not in the most common hunting distances of 300 yards or less.

[Striker1]

Makes me wonder what all the debate is sometimes with regard to "flatness"

[Brian Pfleuger]

Personally, I care a lot less about trajectory (in most cases) than I do recoil.

Especially since I use a laser range finder at any distance that matters.

Things I shoot aren't hard to kill and I'd much rather have a gun that's fun to shoot than use one that would kill elephants when I'm only shooting deer.

Most of the time, differences between cartridges are irrelevant. If the shooter is up to the task, they're up to the task, and if they're not, whatever difference there is between a 270 and 30-06, or 243 and 300 WinMag, isn't going to suddenly make up for the shooter's inadequacies.

Skill matters. Power almost never does.

[a7mmnut]

A .270 of most any brand will shoot custom ammo like a varmint rifle, and that's how it should be treated-like a varmint rifle. If you've got plenty of room to run a blood trail, fine. The bigger hole and energy of the .30 cannot be denied. I was extremely proud of one of the first Ruger SS .270's to be sold around here in 1990. I have a long but great horror story of it posted on here somewhere. I got rid of my .270 as fast as I could. Naturally, I traded for one of my 7mm's- never had any regrets.

People will lambaste me for saying this, but I'll bet my short hairs they don't hunt in thick mountain terrain or crowded Eastern bottom woodlands. If you want to stay out of this stupid argument, get a cheaper-to-shoot .308 with nearly identical performance. When they tell you their .270 is much flatter shooting, ask them over to watch a few episodes of "Top Sniper" on Hulu. Let them pick out the rifles that are .270's. Nobody argues with military success.

-7-

[Striker1]

Well, my experience is exactly the opposite. Everything I've shot with my .270 has been drt...no blood trailing required. Did have to track one a friend shot right behind the front leg with his 7 mag though.

Does that mean either is better than the other? I personally don't think so.

[Brian Pfleuger]

A bigger hole (we do realize that it's bigger by .031", right?) and more energy might be undeniable but the affect thereof certainly is not.

A .308 bullet has an area of .0745", a .277 bullet of .06026.

That's a difference of .01424 square inches and only .0155 around the bullet.

That's like adding a period (yes . <- one of those) around the edge.

Energy doesn't make much difference at all. The difference in energy is whether your bullet is 3 inches or only 2 inches buried in the tree on the other side.

Besides, none of that energy difference or diameter is going to make a gut shot more deadly or a double lung less deadly.

[Sodbuster]

that's how it should be treated-like a varmint rifle

OMG Elmer, I thought you were dead!!!

[Para Bellum]

30-06 is more versatile, you can go from 125gr to 220 gr (Squirrel to Buffalo) and it does better in normal barrel lengths (58-60cm) whereas 270 is limited between 130gr to 150gr and needs 65cm barrels to do really well. So if it shall be either one as a one for all, 30-06 makes the race by far for me. I have one.

But the "best" caliber for me is the 308, why? Gas pressure levels at the muzzle. Very very low due to small case and aggressive powders. Relevant? Yes! Less noise for me and my dog. Even with earmuffs a rifle can/will damage your hearing. And when hunting you are likely to only have a thin less effective muff on and no additional plugs. Also very versatile and very accurate.

Hope that helped.
PB

[tobnpr]

Makes me wonder what all the debate is sometimes with regard to "flatness"

"Flatness" matters little on a perfect, no-wind- no external bullet influences- day.

I don't hunt, so energy at the "target" matters little to me, it is everything to the hunter.

Bullet drop is easily, and accurately, compensated for with a ballistics program if the necessary parameters are known, with the elevation turret.

However, the "flat-shooting" aspect becomes increasingly more important on a windy day, when the bullet that gets to the target sooner- and has a higher BC to cheat the wind- has a distinct advantage.

None of this matters much at short ranges. It becomes exponentially more important as range increases, bullet speeds drop and external factors influence bullet trajectory. For those that never shoot beyond a few hundred yards, it's a non-issue.

[jmr40]

30-06 is more versatile, you can go from 125gr to 220 gr (Squirrel to Buffalo) and it does better in normal barrel lengths (58-60cm) whereas 270 is limited between 130gr to 150gr and needs 65cm barrels to do really well. So if it shall be either one as a one for all, 30-06 makes the race by far for me. I have one.

From a hunting perspective this is all outdated, incorrect or irrelevent. For the record I favor the 30-06 simply because it is what I started with back in the 1970's and there is simply not enough difference with modern loadings to matter, certainly not enough to have both and I'm not selling my 30-06's.

There are a lot of the misconceptions today because the original 30-06 hunting loadings were almost exclusively either 180 or 220 gr bullets. The 30-06 was tradionally loaded very conservatively for many reasons. By the time the 270 was introduced gun and ammo makers felt more comfortable loading newer chamberings hotter and up to their true potential. During the 1930's the 270 with 130 gr bullets did offer flatter trajectory and with bullet technology of the 1930's the heavier 30-06 did offer an advantage on the largest game.

But a lot has changed in 80 years and most shooters are still repeating things that haven't been true in years. So what if the 30-06 is available in 200 gr+ bullets. They aren't needed anymore. With modern loadings and bullets a 150 gr bullet from either can be loaded to over 3000 fps, and do it from a 22" barrel. You can get 3100 fps from either from longer barrels. Both have almost exactly the same trajectory and both will kill any animal in North America equally well. In 2012 there is absolutely no reason to load a bullet heavier than 180 gr in a 30-06. There isn't an animal in the world that will tell the difference between .031" in bullet diameter. In fact the slightly longer .277 bullet will likely out penetrate the .308 bullet. A bullet gets penetration from sectional density more than bullet weight. A 160 gr 270 bullet will equal or outpenetrate a 180 gr 30-06 bullet if shot at the same speed. Which they can be.

In 2012 they are equals in every way for hunting. As a long range target rifle the 30-06 gets the nod only because there is more data, more research that has been done with that round and a shooter does not have to do as much R&D to get success. But with the right loads and right bullets I have no doubt a 270 could equal or even beat a 30-06 at extreme distance.

[Art Eatman]

Aw, now, Para Bellum,the best squirrel load for an '06 is a double-ought buck ahead of five grains of pistol powder. An 80-grain pistol bullet at around 4,000 ft/sec is good for ruination of jackrabbits, I long ago discovered. 110-grain Hornadys always worked for coyotes.

Most any 150-grain bullet will do mean things to Bambi to some 500 yards, from family experience over the years...

[COSteve]

I favor the 30-06 although I've owned both because of the wider range of bullets available and generally the cheaper prices for them than the 270. I like the 06's better resistance to wind drift at long range. In addition, I also load for my M1 Garand, M1A, and M1 Carbine so I already have a supply of 110grn, 147grn 150grn, 168grn and 177grn bullets I can use. Other than that, the 06 has an advantage if shooting larger, dangerous game because it can push 180 to 220 grn bullets.

[BruceM]

For me, I the '06 gets the edge if I intend to hunt game where there is a legitimate need for bullets heavier than 140 grains. And it's not because you can't kill an elk or moose with a .270. In my experience, the perfect shot or situation doesn't always present itself in the real world so I like a little room for error. I'm not talking about rump shots either, just a little edge and the .30-06 has it on bigger game. On close in shots, it seems the '06 will render less meat blood shot and damaged on less than perfect hits-a real concern for some hunters east of the Mississippi. On critters the size of a large mule deer and on down, there's little if any difference in killing effectiveness between the two.

Just my thoughts.



Bruce