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Old March 28, 2000, 10:16 AM   #1
Battler
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This 649 J-frame's trigger is too nasty, I am taking it to a Smith (great reputation, I've met IPSC shooters that brag that their guns were worked on by him).

He gave the option of lightening the trigger, and I have a decision to make. This piece is to be used with a barami hip-grip (no holster needed).

I figure in smoothing the trigger it will become lighter in some places. Given its purpose however, is it safe to get the trigger lightened across the board? If so, how far?

thanks,
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Old March 28, 2000, 11:18 AM   #2
4V50 Gary
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Lightening the trigger may compromise ignition. Be sure to test the gun with your carry ammo before you use it for self defense.

I avoid lightening the trigger and would prefer to have work done on smoothening the trigger. The distinction is that the former concerns the poundage required before the hammer drops and the latter the gradual and smooth build up of pressure (no sudden peak pressure) before the hammer drops.
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Old March 28, 2000, 11:48 AM   #3
Battler
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Thanks - I think I'll just go with lightening.

I don't mind the weight of trigger, so much as the 3 times through the cycle it changes!!

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Old March 29, 2000, 07:29 AM   #4
Dave McC
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Smaller revolvers like the J-frames have difficulty with the geometry. Basically, the leverage advantage of longer parts isn't there, and lightening more than a skosh affects ignition. Even a load that goes bang with a light hit will lose velocity and accuracy.

For those who are even moderately handy with tools, disassemble after shooting a few hundred rounds, polish with a Dremel, felt tip and jeweler's rouge all the wear marks, lube with moly grease. Wipe off excess grease and reassemble. The pull will be no lighter( and less reliable) but smoother and more conducive to good shooting, especially fast DA shooting.
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Old March 29, 2000, 08:33 AM   #5
Jim V
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Way back when, Yeah, I can hear you all groan "The old fart's telling stories again", I used to slick up my own S&W's. I'd detail strip them and clean all the bits and pieces that they seemed to leave in side the frame and then v-e-r-r-r-ry carefully and lightly smooth up the various parts with a fine hone, making sure the flats remained flat etc. Did not change springs or work on sear notches at all.

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Old March 29, 2000, 10:25 AM   #6
David Blinder
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A "smith" once removed a few coils from a spring on a j-frame and trigger was lightened up enough that it didn't go bang. Ever since, I just have it smoothed but leave springs alone. Jack Weigand does a good job on them with his "tame the beast" package. www.jackweigand.com
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Old March 29, 2000, 10:37 AM   #7
Gunslinger
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Although it is a different matter on single actions than DA while I was still building custom guns for CAS I did several "asction jobs". Invariably every customer requested a "lighter" trigger". I do not like the thought of a light trigger on a single actions (revolver) of any kind but definately not those to be used in CAS. (Kneeecaps are such a pain to replace.) After much encouragment from me each agreed to allow me to smooth the action only rather than lighten it. The job came with the promise that if any decided later they wanted the action lightened I would do the job for free.
I never got one back to be lightened.

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Old March 29, 2000, 10:39 AM   #8
David Blinder
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A "smith" once removed a few coils from a spring on a j-frame and trigger was lightened up enough that it didn't go bang. Ever since, I just have it smoothed but leave springs alone. Jack Weigand does a good job on them with his "tame the beast" package. www.jackweigand.com
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Old March 29, 2000, 11:31 PM   #9
Battler
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I showed it to the gunsmith (Art Tillman of Austin) who suggested, alongside smoothing, that the "trigger return" spring actually be lightened a tad. (I think) he said this wouldn't affect strike, and he wouldn't mess with hammer spring.

Now I'm on the waiting list (behind a month's worth of IPSC guns).

Battler.

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Old March 30, 2000, 12:58 PM   #10
jimmy
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FWIW, I had a Model 49 (carbon steel version of the 649) with a heavy trigger. I sent it to S&W's service department, which actually did lighten it. But the factory service department is the only one I'd trust to do this.
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Old March 30, 2000, 10:04 PM   #11
beemerb
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Just finished my J frame.Did things I was told do not work.It was a hammer gun so bobbed that ,inside polish(removed all burrs and machine marks and high polish),lighter trigger return spring and hammer spring.I haven't had a missfire with it in about 200 rounds so I guess its ok.
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Old March 30, 2000, 11:50 PM   #12
4V50 Gary
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The rebound slide spring (some folks call it the trigger return spring) serves not only to return the trigger, but push the rebound slide forward to intercept the seat of the hammer should the hammer slip off the sear (and the trigger isn't depressed). It's a safety feature. While you can cut up to two coils off, I generally leave this alone (personal perference for safety).

Remember, there is a distinction between lightening and smoothening the trigger. The latter does not necessarily mean cutting springs or trimming them (as in the case of the hammer spring). It entails honing the sear, trigger, SA notch on the hammer, smoothing the cylinder stop, polishing the hand, removing burrs in the frame and a few other measures.

Check out my thread on Lassen College. Design & Function of S&W Revolvers is tuaght on July 31 to Aug 4 by Dick Clark (gunsmith for CHP). Dick knows his stuff and I took him for advanced S&W revolvers. He'll teach you how to tune these puppys up without compromising safety.
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Old April 8, 2000, 08:56 PM   #13
Rusty S
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30 years ago I had a beautiful nickeled 6" Model 19 with target grips, hammer, and trigger I got used, but in outwardly perfect condition. Back then I was less knowlegeable than now, and when shooting double action I'd occassionally skip past a chamber. It hurt, but I got rid of the beauty for a gun I could trust. Later, I found that my small hands combined with a lightened return/rebound spring and the humongously wide and sharp target trigger had let the trigger fail to fully return forward, thus the skipping past the next chamber. Back then I was mad because replacing a spring would have solved the problem that scared me into selling the gun*. But that has been documented happening in emergency conditions too. Do you really want to have a five shot revolver that jumps past a chamber leaving you with four shots and a fifth a couple or three more trigger pulls away?

*OK, I'm still mad I didn't know better at the time, even if it's place was taken by an even more beautiful nickeled 8" Python Target.
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