School: Americans Don’t Have Right to Bear Arms

[Punisher_1]

This was on Fox News Website where they are teaching their students that individuals don't have a Second Amendment Right. It sure seems like all this rhetoric has been sped up lately. They have to get things changed within 4 years or they may lose out I guess.

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...bear-arms.html

[Spats McGee]

My first question would be how long the particular textbook in use has been around. Not a year ago, I was teaching from a textbook that said that the 2A had not been incorporated, too. Needless to say, that's not what I taught. However, at the time when the textbook that I was using was written, that information had been accurate.

Regardless of that point, this does bring up the issue that you have to keep an eye on school cirricula. On the "Pinnochio Scale," I've seen some whoppers in textbooks.

[sigcurious]

The worrisome part is not that it happened at an individual school, but that the materials come from a publisher of educational materials. Who knows how many schools use their materials and what other liberal(in the sense of loose not political) interpretations that are outright incorrect are contained within these books.

[WillyKern69]

Some one needs to start a group of lawyers to sue these schools. Just like others(ACLU) do when they want a cross/ or Jesus pictured removed. They threaten a lawsuit to remove the teacher. This school should be sued for damages. This will set a precedent that if you teach lies it will cost your school big bucks.

WK

[Evan Thomas]

My first question would be how long the particular textbook in use has been around.

This. Schools in general are woefully underfunded, to the point that some can't provide textbooks at all, much less up-to-date ones.

[Come and take it.]

It is well known that the first section of the second amendment is a preamble. That first section is not the main body. The first section merely intends to show a comparison between how armed citizens who have an unrestricted right to keep and bear arms can fulfil the same purpose as a well regulated militia.

Under the latest supreme court ruling this is shown to be clear. That the first section is a preamble.

The reason for this statement is to demolish the obsolete argument that the 2nd amendment referred to the right of a state militia to exists.

The curriculum appears to promote the same conclusion on the 2nd amendment that the ACLU backs.

[Evan Thomas]

If one looks at spending on education as a percentage of GDP,the US ranks 37th in the world, behind countries such as Tunisia (23) and Barbados (14). Looking just at the industrialized Western countries on that list, the top 5 are Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Israel, and Belgium. The US is #11 among those countries. Hardly outstanding. (SOURCE)

[Tom Servo]

Schools in general are woefully underfunded, to the point that some can't provide textbooks at all, much less up-to-date ones.

My neighbor's kid has a textbook that still shows Pluto as being a planet. I'm sure if I dug around, I could find plenty of pre-Heller American Gov't textbooks still in use.

At the end of the day, it is a matter of funding, not politics. Textbooks are very expensive (ask any college student), and they have to be purchased in massive quantities. There's a whole review process, and it takes a while. Even in a well-funded school district, expecting them to make those kinds of changes because one aspect of the law changes is a bit unrealistic.

[sigcurious]

My neighbor's kid has a textbook that still shows Pluto as being a planet

In my heart Pluto will always be a planet!

I think that while it's true it takes time for materials to get updated or cycled out of use, even in pre-Heller contexts that worksheet seems a bit biased. IIRC some of the early scotus 2A cases, while decided in favor upholding local/state level issues, were in fact people claiming that the states had infringed on the 2A. Of course people have the right to complain about whatever they wish to, however, in the formal sense, the fact that the scotus of those times even heard the cases, indicates something more substantial than "no right to complain" at all.

And I may be a bit fuzzy, but was there ever a case which defined the NG as the militia pertaining to the 2A?

[bigkrackers]

Here is more accurate info: http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/f.../pdf/pa662.pdf

It's not about GDP. That stat is used as a straw man argument. It's about dollars per student spent. The US could be spending double the percentage in GDP and the only thing that would change would be the unions getting richer. Our educational system is as corrupt as the people in DC who run it.

You fix it by letting parents decide what school is best for their kids. Do that, and bad public schools would vanish. Which is why teachers unions fight and lobby so hard against any kind of voucher system. They know what would happen if parents were allowed to choose.

It's not about the kids, its about the money.

As for text books, there are only a handful of major textbook companies. There is no incentive for them to be accurate. They will get their orders regardless. And there is no reason text books should be so expensive. They are because the textbook industry is monopolistic.

It's also not an apples to apples comparison to other countries. Most other countries are smaller, not a world power, cradle to grave socialists and not a constitutional republic made up a 50 individual states. Our government tries to be everything to everybody and we end up with a system that caters to the lowest common denominator.

[FrankenMauser]

At the end of the day, it is a matter of funding, not politics. Textbooks are very expensive (ask any college student), and they have to be purchased in massive quantities. There's a whole review process, and it takes a while. Even in a well-funded school district, expecting them to make those kinds of changes because one aspect of the law changes is a bit unrealistic.

Absolutely.

Having been "educated" in a state perennially ranked 47th or lower for education spending (Utah), I spent my childhood dealing with massively outdated textbooks and a curriculum that matched those books. Some of my textbooks were printed when my father was in high school. We had a massive injection of funds when I was in high school, that helped update a lot of programs, but we were still far behind the curve.

In 1999, I discovered that the local school district was still using an "American History" textbook printed in 1981. Most of them were in such rough shape, that they had been drilled and put into archival-type three-ring binders, to hold them together and allow insertion of missing (ripped out or doodled-on) pages or entire chapters. And, the curriculum wasn't much better. The teachers were stuck teaching the curriculum that had been approved for that book. Since changes to the curriculum can take a while to be approved, even discussing things like the fall of the Berlin Wall (1989 - 10 years prior) were limited to simply stating that that part of the book was wrong about the current state of the world.

Our education system is messed up - and it's worse in some parts of the country, than others. That's all there is to it.

[dakota.potts]

I finished out my high school years last year in Florida, ranked 51st in the nation for spending. We were cutting every thing, yet a couple English classes got new iPads, enough for every student

I wish I had cared about this sort of thing back when I was in my government class.

[Punisher_1]

In a perfect world the iPads are a cheaper alternative to text books. Plus you could get updates to books instead of buying new books when they get outdated. Guess who's not real keen on that. The text book companies.

[Skadoosh]

Didnt the SCOTUS incorporate the 2A to all 50 states when they ruled on McDonald v. City of Chicago, 561 US ___ (2010) on March 2, 2010?

My understanding of McDonald is that the Court held self-protection is a fundamental right, and incorporated the Second Amendment to the States via the Fourteenth Amendment Due Process Clause. True?

[Brit]

My Wife worked as the Accountant in the top Girls School in Ontario, Canada.

They went to Lap Tops for all Students the year she retired, 2003.

Click, updated, every subject. The 25lb back pack became 5lb, or so.

My Wife is fast asleep at this time, waking her up for clarification? Not such a good idea!

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Skadoosh

My understanding of McDonald is that the Court held self-protection is a fundamental right, and incorporated the Second Amendment to the States via the Fourteenth Amendment Due Process Clause. True?

Holding that the 2A protects a "fundamental" or "core" right to self-defense was Heller and was just repeated in McDonald. But Heller applied only to Washington, DC. It was indeed McDonald that brought us incorporation.

[Tom Servo]

In my heart Pluto will always be a planet!

Don't stop believing, brother!

One of the problems I see locally is that we don't have civics classes in schools any more. For high-schoolers, there's American Gov't, which is often dry and academic. I briefly worked with one high school in Florida in which American Gov't was an elective.

So yeah, you could graduate high-school and go out into the world without having read the Constitution. Isn't that convenient?

(I also know of one school in which the library staff was redacting books like Catcher in the Rye with magic markers as recently as 1998.)

Of course, it's easy to read conspiracy into a situation that's really more about funding and priorities. At the end of the day, those of us who are parents find that the totality of their childrens' education can't be left to government institutions of varying competence and commitment.

[Dr Big Bird PhD]

I am afraid this is a losing battle. The people cannot stop these incidents from happening with a public school system. Political correctness, bureaucracy, and state intervention will whittle down the quality of our education system until nothing is left.

It's a shame more people don't realize public education is the first vehicle the state uses to begin indoctrination.

[Tom Servo]

It's a shame more people don't realize public education is the first vehicle the state uses to begin indoctrination.

But I'm wary of calling it an intentional act when it's more likely to be the result of funding and negligence.

[dajowi]

Didn't the AG state somewhere along the line that the way to change kids thinking about guns was to "brainwash" them?

[Evan Thomas]

Just a reminder that we don't do left/right politics. I've deleted a post or two.

Didn't the AG state somewhere along the line that the way to change kids thinking about guns was to "brainwash" them?

Dajowi, can you find a source for that? It's a pretty strong assertion to make without some evidence that Mr. Holder (if he's the AG you're talking about, and not someone at the state level) actually said it.

[Spats McGee]

It's a 1995 clip from Eric Holder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nM0asnCXD0

[Evan Thomas]

Good... grief. I know he was the US Attorney for D.C. at the time, and presumably was speaking as the person responsible for enforcing the ban on handguns that was in effect, but -- that's bad.

I knew I didn't like him.

Thanks, Spats.

[Spats McGee]

Welcome to The Rabbithole, Vanya. It's deeper than you thought.

[Tom Servo]

Welcome to The Rabbithole, Vanya. It's deeper than you thought.

Guess who also oversaw the implementation of the NICS system?