Michigan open carry incident with Marysville police

nemo2econ · June 21, 2010, 07:50 AM

I just read a pretty balanced news story, Gun advocates claim police violated rights, in thetimesherald.com, published in Port Huron, Michigan.

Two persons, who were carrying handguns that were holstered on their persons yet plainly visible to others, were contacted by police after open carrying on public property at a festival in the city of Marysville, Michigan. They were contacted by police, principally apparently, by the Assistant Chief of Police in Marysville, Ron Buckmaster. They were asked to leave, told their carrying was illegal, threatened with arrest, etc.

The two persons carrying assert they were legally carrying under Michigan state law which allows open carry.

The incident was tense, but no one was arrested. A six-minute audio clip of the "discussion" has been made public, and can be found on the newspaper website with the article. The two open carry Michiganders are asking for an apology from the police.

The Chief of Police in Marysville has indicated that they will increase training for police on Michigan open carry law.

Interesting throughout.

And kudos to the news media for covering it in a balanced way, presenting both sides of the story.

sixgun67 · June 21, 2010, 08:14 AM

My take on this is, the police told them they were illegally carrying, yet didn't arrest them. Sounds to me like the police most likely knew it was legal but wanted nothing more than to make them leave public grounds, possibly to keep down any fear from the public

Also, on the increased training part, just how much effort is needed to explain to your underlings that something is not illegal? I would have expected them to be knowledgable already, first and foremost, about open or concealed carry.

Sefner · June 21, 2010, 08:53 AM

I started a thread on this. It can be found here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412896

A lot of OCers in MI are being stopped under the pretense of "I don't know if you're a felon and it is illegal for a felon to carry a handgun thus I must check to see if you are a felon". This is not true, Terry v. Ohio and and AG opinion (from MI) have stated that openly carrying a handgun is not reasonable suspicion to stop a person. Someone on Michigan Open Carry forums put it best when they stated "Would the police stop a guy walking down the street holding a little girls hand because they don't know if he is a convicted sex offender and it is illegal for convicted sex offenders to have contact with children?" No, they wouldn't. Because they can't. That is also why you see the two carriers in the story refusing to give ID. Because in MI you don't have to give ID. When approached in this manner by this officers these two gentlemen asserted their rights rather than have this guy do whatever he wanted. They broke no laws. Also, no one ran screaming with the children, no babies began crying, and no one was even hurt.

nemo2econ · June 23, 2010, 10:47 PM

Yes, thanks Sefner.

Your link (above) is clearly the definitive TFL thread on this police/openCarrier incident.

But I want you to know that I did search TFL for "Michigan" and "open carry" prior to starting the thread. I guess I just did not look hard enough.

Mawetta · June 23, 2010, 11:45 PM

I hate to be so crude, but here is a reality check for you people. You have no gun rights, socially. We have open carry in Louisiana but there is no way i could actually open carry. It just doesn't work that way. You will be treated as a criminal automatically if you have a gun on your person or car. Let me put this in perspective:

A person can call the police on you, fabricate a story and you could be charged with aggravated assault just for your gun being in a holster. Some old lady can look at you and that is it, the police steal your gun, you have to pay 1,000$ bond or rot in jail for 3 months, just waiting for your case.

This is reality. This happened to me, actually out in the real world, where guns are illegal.

**Mike Irwin** · June 23, 2010, 11:58 PM

Already under discussion.

Closed as a duplicate.

June 21, 2010, 07:50 AM	#1
nemo2econ Member Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 91	Michigan open carry incident with Marysville police I just read a pretty balanced news story, Gun advocates claim police violated rights, in thetimesherald.com, published in Port Huron, Michigan. Two persons, who were carrying handguns that were holstered on their persons yet plainly visible to others, were contacted by police after open carrying on public property at a festival in the city of Marysville, Michigan. They were contacted by police, principally apparently, by the Assistant Chief of Police in Marysville, Ron Buckmaster. They were asked to leave, told their carrying was illegal, threatened with arrest, etc. The two persons carrying assert they were legally carrying under Michigan state law which allows open carry. The incident was tense, but no one was arrested. A six-minute audio clip of the "discussion" has been made public, and can be found on the newspaper website with the article. The two open carry Michiganders are asking for an apology from the police. The Chief of Police in Marysville has indicated that they will increase training for police on Michigan open carry law. Interesting throughout. And kudos to the news media for covering it in a balanced way, presenting both sides of the story.

June 23, 2010, 10:47 PM	#4
nemo2econ Member Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 91	See Sefner's link Yes, thanks Sefner. Your link (above) is clearly the definitive TFL thread on this police/openCarrier incident. But I want you to know that I did search TFL for "Michigan" and "open carry" prior to starting the thread. I guess I just did not look hard enough.

June 23, 2010, 11:58 PM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Already under discussion. Closed as a duplicate. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 21, 2010, 08:14 AM	#2
sixgun67 Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2009 Location: New Philadelphia, Oh Posts: 238	My take on this is, the police told them they were illegally carrying, yet didn't arrest them. Sounds to me like the police most likely knew it was legal but wanted nothing more than to make them leave public grounds, possibly to keep down any fear from the public Also, on the increased training part, just how much effort is needed to explain to your underlings that something is not illegal? I would have expected them to be knowledgable already, first and foremost, about open or concealed carry.

June 21, 2010, 08:53 AM	#3
Sefner Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 769	I started a thread on this. It can be found here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412896 A lot of OCers in MI are being stopped under the pretense of "I don't know if you're a felon and it is illegal for a felon to carry a handgun thus I must check to see if you are a felon". This is not true, Terry v. Ohio and and AG opinion (from MI) have stated that openly carrying a handgun is not reasonable suspicion to stop a person. Someone on Michigan Open Carry forums put it best when they stated "Would the police stop a guy walking down the street holding a little girls hand because they don't know if he is a convicted sex offender and it is illegal for convicted sex offenders to have contact with children?" No, they wouldn't. Because they can't. That is also why you see the two carriers in the story refusing to give ID. Because in MI you don't have to give ID. When approached in this manner by this officers these two gentlemen asserted their rights rather than have this guy do whatever he wanted. They broke no laws. Also, no one ran screaming with the children, no babies began crying, and no one was even hurt.

June 23, 2010, 11:45 PM	#5
Mawetta Junior member Join Date: June 16, 2010 Location: New Orleans Posts: 90	I hate to be so crude, but here is a reality check for you people. You have no gun rights, socially. We have open carry in Louisiana but there is no way i could actually open carry. It just doesn't work that way. You will be treated as a criminal automatically if you have a gun on your person or car. Let me put this in perspective: A person can call the police on you, fabricate a story and you could be charged with aggravated assault just for your gun being in a holster. Some old lady can look at you and that is it, the police steal your gun, you have to pay 1,000$ bond or rot in jail for 3 months, just waiting for your case. This is reality. This happened to me, actually out in the real world, where guns are illegal.