Suffolk County NY handgun License holders

[Musketeer]

UNRESTRICTED carry..as far as I know, NYC exception to rule, parts of Albany, parts of Buffalo too....

Note: As much as Albany and Buffalo might want to be able to ban it they can't Your permit is good in ALL of NY state EXCEPT NYC because of the very specific wording in the NYS penal law. Those other cities were not given the ability to exclude permits from the rest of the state.

[hudsonvalley]

That was my point MUSKETEER, a CARRY is a CARRY.....shouldn't the SCPD recognize a statewide law? I have a store in NYC, I've called 1 Police Plaza a few times to ask someone to explain the endorsement of a NY County Permit for NYC carry.....ask me if anyone ever called me back....someone told me that I could easily get a PREMISE business permit. I asked what happens when I need to feed the meter? They said no problem. I said that by the very wording of their regulations, I couldn't leave my premises. It's double speak....when it serves their purpose.....

[ViperJon]

This has been challenged and the NY Appeals court has ruled that restrictions can be applied by the license issuing authority. So the SCPD is allowed to put restrictions on a license. Frankly I can't see that ever changing as there isn't any organization or group actively seeking to address the issue. In fact, the SCPD has tightened up the license, as detailed in the begining of this thread.

[Tomcat017]

+1 on what vip said, unfortunately. Quick question for viper and musketeer, since you guys are really good with NY law. Suffolk can put a restriction on my permit (which they did). I want to take my gun upstate when visiting a friend. I imagine that I can't, even though the restriction is from Suffolk, correct? Now suppose I am upstate hunting--I am allowed to bring the handgun along as well. If we go to the grocery store, is it legal to carry? Since NYS recognizes the permit as a carry, and since the restrictions are from Suffolk, do they care? Or is the restriction enforced state-wide?

[kennybs plbg]

The restrictions usually are inforced in the issuing county, the majority of the counties or even the majority of the state police only are concerned you hold a state license. The city of Buffalo is under Erie county's dept.

I was actually more comfortable carrying in NY than I am here in Arizona, you have less restrictions carrying in NYS.

kenny b

[Musketeer]

In fact, the SCPD has tightened up the license, as detailed in the begining of this thread.

They removed the one about being able to stop to eat on the way to and from the range... How many permit holders were shooting up Applebees?

The best is the head of SAFE, one of the grass roots groups on LI, advised NOT rocking the boat and bringing this one up... They have worked hard for the SC Trap and Skeet range but on the SCPD permit issue and the Huntington range that disappeared over night without a fight I don't know where they are.

[ViperJon]

Pretty much political suicide to be pro-gun on Long Island and New York, no one is going to take up the cause and at least press the SCPD on the issue. They (SAFE) are having dinners and talking amongst themselves. The NRA comes here for a dinner once a year. Nothing ever changes on this issue of relevance to Long Island license holders.

No one, least of all the Total Active Pistol Licenses (29,289!) care.

[threewishes]

Well as you have read from my prior post, I retained a lawyer.

According to him, anyone can obtain a permit as long as your record is clean, not a threat to society, and no violent past.

We will be aiming at the Constitution's Amendment along with Article 78. See below for definition of Article 78:

(An Article 78 is a type of lawsuit. It was created by the New York legislature in 1937. Generally, Article 78 proceedings are used to challenge action (or inaction) by agencies and officers of state and local government. Sometime even the actions of private corporations are subject to Article 78 review. If you feel that an agency has screwed up your administrative case, filing an Article 78 will bring your case into a New York Supreme Court. There, a judge will review your administrative case, scrutinize the agency's actions and decisions, and if necessary reverse an agency's decision. If you are concerned that you will be harmed by the agency's action while you are waiting for the judge to complete his review of the case, the judge can prevent the agency from taking any further action until the Article 78 has been resolved.)

In a nut shell, the SCPD Pistol Department is illegally denying pistol permits. And by not addressing this issue in whole, people are required to obtain a lawyer due to lack of knowledge. If we stood up and addressed this issue, we can stop this from happening.

I will keep everyone posted on the outcome; I'm currently in appeal limbo.

My attorney feels confident that we will win and he has done hundreds of these cases before, being familiar with the political run around. Each and every time, he has won even if it means going to Supreme Court.

Because I retained an attorney, I will be curt with any questions anyone asks; however I am open to all.

One final note, what is happening to Suffolk County taxpayers isn't legal; I myself have to lay out money to have my case heard. We need to do something to stop this from happening. A class action lawsuit would possibly stop this from happening, as well as save taxpayers in the long run (hiring attorneys, etc). We need to come together and have this heard! Get the local newspapers involved, petition the whole thing! People should not be subjected to this type of action becuase of lack of knowledge in the Pistol Permit department. That department needs a complete overhall, with new staff as well as new training on the current laws governing Pistol Permits. Simply denying a permit will cause most applicants to not proceed further, but people like myself going one step further to win my rights is rediculious. There really is no need for this type of action!!


If anyone is having problems/denied, contact Steve Levy! He's getting bashed by the SCPD PAL organization every day on the radio.. He would love to hear comments/complains from the SCPD.

[2edgesword]

I just stumbled over this thread while doing a web search on what has been one of my frustrations since getting my pistol license about 20 years ago.

With 23,000 Suffolk County pistol licenses holders is there just not enough passion on the issue of unresticted concealed carry for personal protection to go forward as a group with a lawsuit to have the high hurtle of "imminent danger" dropped from the requirements for obtaining an unrestricted license?

While State law allows licensing agencies to place restrictions on licenses those restrictions shouldn't render the license functionally ineffective with respect to our fundamental right to self-protection. Have the legal minds at Murtha and other pro-2nd amendment lawyers concluded that this type of legal battle just can't be won or is the issue a lack of coordinated effort and pooling of resources on the part of Suffolk County pistol license holders?

[sandbag]

NY in 1976 and never regretted it.A state where a gun owner is treated like a disease carrier is no place to live.
Rhode Island has its share of problems,but oddly enough,some of our most pro-gun elected officials are Democrats.Except for the Governor(very pro gun)there are virtually no Republicans in state government.
This last election in my state Senate district the Democrat has always received an "A" rating from the NRA-the Republican was anti-gun.Guess who I voted for.
Rhode Island has a 7 day waiting period,but no registration,licensing,or prohibited weapons.They don't allow black tip armor piercing rifle ammo to be sold,but there's no range that will let you shoot it here anyway.
Carry permits are hard to get if you're not retired LE,but it's nothing like NY.Any cab driver can get one.Premises permits aren't needed-loaded guns can be kept in any business or home for self defense solely at the discretion of the gun owner.I don't know of any gun free zones except schools.We have a very vocal and annoying anti-gun crowd,but they aren't that influential.
Our two federal reps and both senators are very anti-gun.Go figure

[jerry40]

Hello all!! First post here and I have a quick question. I currently hold a Nassau County Target/Hunting carry permit. Is this permit considered a full unrestricted carry in upstate NY counties?? (I know in NYC its worth nothing more than a piece of paper with my picture on it lol) I understand Nassau/Suffolk place restrictions on the permit on where you can carry (range/hunting). However, I was told that in Upstate counties your permit is either carry or premise. So if I have a Nassau carry permit with Nassau county restrictions are those restrictions only for nassau/suffolk or all upstate counties as well??

[Nexttime]

Jerry40, Sorry to say but your restrictions are valid in all counties in NY. You can lose your permit if a LEO in any county contacts the issuing judge to report that you are not following the administrative restrictions on your permit. I know that in some counties a permit holder can request an unrestricted permit after a while by writing to the issuing judge and stating your case. In some counties, simply having the permit for a few years without incident and showing additional completed safety courses to the judge will help.

There is a nice thread on the NY hometown forum on ar15.com that lists more information based on counties.

[ViperJon]

I know that in some counties a permit holder can request an unrestricted permit after a while by writing to the issuing judge and stating your case. In some counties, simply having the permit for a few years without incident and showing additional completed safety courses to the judge will help.

Not a snowballs chance in hell that will happen in Nassau or Suffolk County.

[Nexttime]

Here is the thread that discusses various counties in NY. This is not legal advice, just people talking about their experiences.

ar15.com NYS Pistol Permits By County

[ViperJon]

Let me give you the cliff notes.
In New York, the licensing authority whether it be a judge or the police department have total and unlimited discretion as to whom and what type of license they can issue. They can legally add any restriction they want and you have no recourse. The ability to add "reasonable" restrictions to a license has been challenged in court and was lost. If they decide you have to wear pink underwear on your head to go to the range they can do it and have the legal authority to do so. The "sportsmen" restriction on Long Island licenses has even been tightened up of late, with the deletion of some key text in the pistol license handbook issued to all license holders.

To sum up Long Island sucks, has become a left leaning democratic stronghold and will only get worse.
The NCPD and SCPD listens to, and answers to, no one.

[jerry40]

I was told by some just put a shooting bag in your vehicle with targets, muffs, and an extra box of ammo; join one or a few 24 hour ranges on the island and your good to go. You can be in transit carrying almost anywhere on the island and be OK. Any thoughts on this action?? I always thought tho....thats only good when your in transit; don't let em catch u at a restaurant/diner or worse the mall....

Another quick question....would it be illegal to have the pistol loaded in a vehicle and not have it on my side (ie: glovebox/center console) to/from all those trips to the range?? (I'd never leave the weapon in the vehicle unattended)

[2edgesword]

Based on my reading of the section of the penal code dealing with issuing pistol licenses the licensing authority has total discretion with respect to who will be issued a pistol license and technically they don't need a reason to deny a license. That licensing authority gets to decide what constitutes a "good cause exists for the denial of the license."

In addition the penal code states "a license may be revoked and cancelled at any time in the city of New York, and in the counties of Nassau and Suffolk, by the licensing officer, and elsewhere than in the city of New York by any judge or justice of a court of record". Again, nothing is stated with respect to what constitutes proper cause for revoking or cancelling a license.

[Marz9]

Hello all. I'm new to the forum (this is my first post) I came across this thread in searching for ways to obtain a ccw permit in suffolk county, since the pistol permit booklet pretty much states you have to be attacked....on video.....on a monthly basis in order to get one. I have a sportsman permit for about a year now and it is just very inconvenient and not practical. I read about how they once allowed stoping for food or car pooling......if i could do that it would be much better than it is now. when was that taken out?

[Johnc]

I came across this thread in searching for ways to obtain a ccw permit in suffolk county, since the pistol permit booklet pretty much states you have to be attacked....on video.....on a monthly basis in order to get one.

Welcome to TFL. You do not necessarily have to be attacked repeatedly or have the attack recorded. If you life is physically threatened by a named individual and the individual is arrested, you have grounds for what is referred to as a "carry for personal protection" license. Few of the licenses are granted.

[Tomcat017]

Welcome Marz! Essentially, what you said (humorously) is correct - SCPD (which is your licensing authority, unless you live in one of the eastern towns) says that you need to have documented proof of recurrent threats to your life or safety. As Johnc pointed out, very few of these are granted. I've heard rumors of ccws for corporate execs, but have no idea whether or not that is true. I know for sure that politics and "who you know" come into play in both eastern and western suffolk, but especially in eastern. As of right now, the only way to a ccw that I know of is to have the law changed, or appoint some new people at the PD. Consider writting, as we all ought to, your county exec (Steve Levy) and police commissioner (Richard Dormer). I know it seems futile, but it can't hurt. Right now Mr. Levy and the PD are on the outs, so it might be an especially appropriate time to be writting him.

[2edgesword]

In Suffolk County you can get a pistol license for target shooting and hunting (sportsman) by paying the fee, completing the application, fingerprinting, background investigation and a six month wait. But if you're trying to get an unrestriced license you would have to have documentation (which I'm sure would have to include police reports) of a serious threat on your life.

[Marz9]

Tomcat, do you feel a bunch of individual letters is going to help? Im not criticizing your advice, im just trying to be proactive. It seems like we have a decent amount of people just on this thread alone who are all fighting for the same cause. I think we should band together and send one powerful letter (or as many as it takes) signed by as many people as we can get instead of 30, 40, 50, or however many individual ones. I think it is easier for some one to deny 40 individuals one at a time than to stop all of them at once. Has something like this ever been attempted or has anyone tried to organize it?

From what I have seen so far from this forum is that there are a lot well spoken, very knowledgeable people who all are looking to achieve the same goal. I think we need to unite if we want to stand a chance at fighting the system to give us what we rightfully deserve.....our second amendment!!

Anyone with me??

[Ed K]

I just returned from adding guns to my lic. Walked in to office to find heavy glass walls like found in banks years ago. Ireally hope they don't consider us law abideing citizens who chose to exersize our Second Admt. Rights, a threat. I feel this costly expense would have been better spent on improveing service [ speed up app's etc.]
All lic holders should remember this next election day and vote in a gun friendly County Ex.

[ViperJon]

I've had my Suffolk County license for almost 20 years now, and have been down this road many times. Here are the basic problems.

1. The NY State Appeals court has ruled that the licensing authority has wide descretionary authority in issuing handguns licenses, and can legally place what ever restrictions they see "fit". They (SCPD) can issue and revoke a license for any reason they want and have to answer to NO one. This power has been challenged in court and lost. They will not give it up easily. As JohnC mentioned, they flaunt existing law and again, go unchallenged. There is no legislator in Suffolk County with the balls to pursue the matter.

2. See previous posts. There are Total Active Pistol Licenses (29,289!) in Suffolk County and the huge bulk of them don't care, they are happy that they are even allowed to own a handgun. These sheep have accepted the authority of the SCPD as gospel, and obviously have zero interest in pushing for more gun rights such as CCL reform. Not a peep has been made about the handbok revision that was mentioned in my first post here.

3. There is no organization working on putting pressure on the County executive or the SCPD to change the existing system. The NRA in particular has totally given up on New York/Long Island. There are grassroots organizations out there that challenge lawmakers when gun control laws are proposed but none are working towards any reforms on Long Island. This has been the case since I have had my license. Frankly, they are a lot better at sponsoring dinners than challenging the status quo.

[Tomcat017]

Hey Marz - well, Viper hit the nail on the head. The big 2A organizations seem fairly apathetic about LI/NY, as I suppose it's the hardest (and therefore, last) egg to crack. They do sponsor nice dinners. Most pistol license holders in Suffolk, as Vip pointed out, don't really care enough to push for further rights. A few people here squawked about the new revision of the handbook, but that's about it.

As far as writing a big letter, I'm all for it. Do I really think it will accomplish anything? Unfortunately, experience says no. But it's no sweat off my back, and I don't think it can hurt. But if we do it, I'd like to have some of the more knowledgable here (and on other forums) -- like Viper and Musketeer -- that are familiar with the past cases on the issue, and violations of the SCPD, chime in. A lawyer, or someone more law savvy than me, would also be good in deciding exactly who to address it to, and how, and what to include. Because they answer essentially to no-one out here, I think we do need to be careful to not tick them off. If you can find a few people to help with this, I'd be happy to write, collect local names from various firearms forums, and send it off - if you all are on board, and feel it's worth the minimal effort.

EdK - do they now have glass installed in the suffolk pistol license bureau? That's just ridiculous. I haven't been there since December, at which time I don't remember seeing any. But glass or no glass, you definitely feel like a perp when they deal with you. As far as the county exec, electing a pro-gun one has not even been an option, since I believe Levy got the endorsement of both the Repub and Dem parties last election as part of some deal.