Here is another scenario :-)

model 25 · November 30, 2005, 01:46 AM

Well he is your local Meth head and needs more money to supply his habit. His mind is bent but still devious enough to have cut up some steel belted radials to make into a poor mans bullet proof vest. See he knows that there are more armed citizens out there and if the shooting starts he has a suprise for them. He has his stolen 22 LR pistol with him.

See he is a three time loser and won't let any witnesses survive and he is determined to get his meth today with you the intended target. You are on the street with no family and no backup and the light is poor at best.

Now tell us what you are carrying and how you will handle this situation with what YOU CARRY not what you would carry.

Have fun

25
edited to add firearm

gfen · November 30, 2005, 01:52 AM

I'd start my car and drive away. I might even beep merrily at him as I motored past at a safe 35mph.

Sir William · November 30, 2005, 01:54 AM

Bhp 60+1.

yorec · November 30, 2005, 02:11 AM

Uh... Assuming he can corner me and posses a threat great enough that I feel I must employ deadly force... I'd do the same thing as if in a similar situation the local serial murderer, wearing concealed ceramic plate armor capable of deflecting AP 30-06, decided my head would look good over his mantle --- I'd fire several (3-6) .45 acp rounds from my 1911 to his center of mass and when I realized he was not stopping his threat immediately, I'd move the POA to his head - or pelvis, depending on circumstances.

Once a leathal force level defensive reaction is forced, there isn't much change to be made wether the threat is a smelly hobo or AK waiving terrorist. There are some that would provoke a thoughtful reaction, but this one isn't it.

Next.

omegapd · November 30, 2005, 03:29 AM

Boy, I hate scenarios...

I carry a 4 inch K frame .38 everyday with a couple of speedloaders. My best bet in this scenario is to empty the gun and try to reload.

I seriously doubt I'll get into this predicament, but I don't think there's any other option at this point.

If it's your time...it's your time...

blume357 · November 30, 2005, 06:54 AM

tracer round would probably light up the steel belted radial... latern fuel or what ever they use in processing meth would probably help with this... then you would be able to see your target better.

Glenn E. Meyer · November 30, 2005, 11:57 AM

Not enough info about the confrontation.

However, about the vest - that's a yawn - quality training teaches quick failure to stop drills. Deal with it.

XavierBreath · November 30, 2005, 12:22 PM

Well...........
My carry gun would likely be a Model 38 with 5 rounds of Federal HydraShoks in my right pants pocket. I seem to be carrying that more and more these days.

If I let a junkie with a bunch of tires hanging off him get that close, as in contact/robbery distance, then I screwed up. At any rate, I will get one hand on his gun to deflect it and close in tight while drawing my own gun from my pocket. The first two rounds will likely not penetrate his makeshift vest, although I will be putting them into his torso from under his arm. The third shot will likely penetrate his skull through his lips, teeth and upper palette, or at least knock him senseless if he has a gorilla skull or I have no muzzle velocity. If it just knocks him senseless, then I escape.

After that, it's time to check for his buddies, and call 911.

azredhawk44 · November 30, 2005, 12:55 PM

I would be carrying .380 or 9mm most likely with 7x.380 or 9x9mm.

Two to the torso, no effect changes my target to the face. Two shots, no effect or no hit changes my target to pelvis. Fire dry and reload while trying to retreat to cover.

If I need to / am able to shoot with the second mag, I am going to try for gun-hand shoulder while attempting to close to hand combat distance. Fire dry, drop the gun and break both arms of the subject.

281 Quad Cam · November 30, 2005, 01:38 PM

Steel radials are no match for a pointy stick!

No really... I drove over one and needless to say spent 20 minutes with a scissor jack and a tire iron.

PS. Oh uh... Give him my meth, and talk about the new Dr Dre CD.

PSS. I suppose 15 x 9mm untill something happens.

PzGren · November 30, 2005, 02:16 PM

Wonder if a looser like that is using retreads.

For his improvised vest to be bullet resistant he'd be weighed down some. If I'd see some weird bulk advancing me, I'd just go the other way.

Reminds me of the old Michelin man. Dream another one up, that's really funny!

High Planes Drifter · November 30, 2005, 02:49 PM

Are we talking skinny "crack head" sized junky or bulked up " just got out of the pen" type dope head? If the former, I'd probably bum rush him and knock the gun out of his hands knowing that his ass probably didnt even bother to load the dam thing; then open up a can of Extra Strength Beat Down on him. If the later, I would compliment him on his handmade deffensive atire, attempt to get in my vehicle and drive off while dialing 911. If cornered, aim for the head.

1inthechamber · November 30, 2005, 03:21 PM

"See he is a three time loser "

I wouldn't do anything since he's a 3 time loser, which means he would be in prison.

stratus · November 30, 2005, 04:10 PM

After carefully considering the type of threat and weighing the consequences, I have come to the conclusion that I would uh, shoot the guy. I carry a USP .45 compact, since that was part of the question.

springmom · November 30, 2005, 05:25 PM

+1 Stratus, although it would probably be my Bersa Thunder .380.

And for the record, I wouldn't let myself BE on the street in that situation in the first place. Not real strategic thinking at the front end....

Springmom

IronBalls · November 30, 2005, 06:21 PM

this exact scenario is why im thinking of upgrading my .25 Beretta Jetfire for a Desert Eagle in .50ae

delta58 · November 30, 2005, 06:25 PM

I agree with XavierBreath, if I let a guy wearing goodyear body armor that close I need to pay more attention to what's going on. However if he is that close I'm going 2 or 3 rounds(165 gr. cor-bon .45 acp) center mass and if that doesn't work everything else to the head.

craigntx · November 30, 2005, 06:36 PM

keep your pistol in hand pocket of jacket
(in ya hand, of course)

youll get the first shot
small auto or even better, hammer shrouded revolver

winter is the safest time

almost wish i could wear a big jacket 24/7

NGP58 · November 30, 2005, 07:03 PM

Homemade body armor won't have any effect on a good Head shot!!!

....Norm.

spacemanspiff · November 30, 2005, 07:20 PM

are you saying he has tires strapped around his torso, like the michelin man? and he has a .22lr pistol?

i think i'd put on my Boots of Escapement and scurry away.

axslingerW · November 30, 2005, 07:37 PM

I live in the meth capitol. Mo had to be good at something.

I see a lot of meth heads. Most of them haven't got steady enough nerves to aim. Since I carry 14 rounds of .40 every day, I feel pretty comfortable in the knowledge that I will make it back to my car alive. However, I make it a point to never let myself get into this position to start with. In St Louis we have these people on the street 24/7. Most of us just stay away from them. This is why puplic transportation is never an option for me or my family. I don't fear them, but I do my best to avoid them.

November 30, 2005, 01:46 AM	#1
model 25 Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: out west Posts: 892	Here is another scenario :-) Well he is your local Meth head and needs more money to supply his habit. His mind is bent but still devious enough to have cut up some steel belted radials to make into a poor mans bullet proof vest. See he knows that there are more armed citizens out there and if the shooting starts he has a suprise for them. He has his stolen 22 LR pistol with him. See he is a three time loser and won't let any witnesses survive and he is determined to get his meth today with you the intended target. You are on the street with no family and no backup and the light is poor at best. Now tell us what you are carrying and how you will handle this situation with what YOU CARRY not what you would carry. Have fun 25 edited to add firearm

November 30, 2005, 02:11 AM	#4
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,328	Uh... Assuming he can corner me and posses a threat great enough that I feel I must employ deadly force... I'd do the same thing as if in a similar situation the local serial murderer, wearing concealed ceramic plate armor capable of deflecting AP 30-06, decided my head would look good over his mantle --- I'd fire several (3-6) .45 acp rounds from my 1911 to his center of mass and when I realized he was not stopping his threat immediately, I'd move the POA to his head - or pelvis, depending on circumstances. Once a leathal force level defensive reaction is forced, there isn't much change to be made wether the threat is a smelly hobo or AK waiving terrorist. There are some that would provoke a thoughtful reaction, but this one isn't it. Next. __________________ What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

November 30, 2005, 03:29 AM	#5
omegapd Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2004 Location: GA Posts: 670	Boy, I hate scenarios... I carry a 4 inch K frame .38 everyday with a couple of speedloaders. My best bet in this scenario is to empty the gun and try to reload. I seriously doubt I'll get into this predicament, but I don't think there's any other option at this point. If it's your time...it's your time... __________________ John 15:12-13 This is my command: love another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, that someone would lay down his life for his friends.

November 30, 2005, 06:54 AM	#6
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	A good tracer round would probably light up the steel belted radial... latern fuel or what ever they use in processing meth would probably help with this... then you would be able to see your target better.

November 30, 2005, 11:57 AM	#7
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Not enough info about the confrontation. However, about the vest - that's a yawn - quality training teaches quick failure to stop drills. Deal with it. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

November 30, 2005, 01:52 AM	#2
gfen Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2005 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 817	I'd start my car and drive away. I might even beep merrily at him as I motored past at a safe 35mph.

November 30, 2005, 01:54 AM	#3
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	Bhp 60+1.

November 30, 2005, 12:22 PM	#8
XavierBreath Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2002 Location: North Louisiana Posts: 2,800	Well........... My carry gun would likely be a Model 38 with 5 rounds of Federal HydraShoks in my right pants pocket. I seem to be carrying that more and more these days. If I let a junkie with a bunch of tires hanging off him get that close, as in contact/robbery distance, then I screwed up. At any rate, I will get one hand on his gun to deflect it and close in tight while drawing my own gun from my pocket. The first two rounds will likely not penetrate his makeshift vest, although I will be putting them into his torso from under his arm. The third shot will likely penetrate his skull through his lips, teeth and upper palette, or at least knock him senseless if he has a gorilla skull or I have no muzzle velocity. If it just knocks him senseless, then I escape. After that, it's time to check for his buddies, and call 911. __________________ Xavier's Blog

November 30, 2005, 12:55 PM	#9
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	I would be carrying .380 or 9mm most likely with 7x.380 or 9x9mm. Two to the torso, no effect changes my target to the face. Two shots, no effect or no hit changes my target to pelvis. Fire dry and reload while trying to retreat to cover. If I need to / am able to shoot with the second mag, I am going to try for gun-hand shoulder while attempting to close to hand combat distance. Fire dry, drop the gun and break both arms of the subject.

November 30, 2005, 01:38 PM	#10
281 Quad Cam Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 937	Steel radials are no match for a pointy stick! No really... I drove over one and needless to say spent 20 minutes with a scissor jack and a tire iron. PS. Oh uh... Give him my meth, and talk about the new Dr Dre CD. PSS. I suppose 15 x 9mm untill something happens. __________________ "Whats the first aid procedure for consumption of coolant?"

November 30, 2005, 02:16 PM	#11
PzGren Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2001 Posts: 1,260	Wonder if a looser like that is using retreads. For his improvised vest to be bullet resistant he'd be weighed down some. If I'd see some weird bulk advancing me, I'd just go the other way. Reminds me of the old Michelin man. Dream another one up, that's really funny!

November 30, 2005, 02:49 PM	#12
High Planes Drifter Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2005 Posts: 558	Are we talking skinny "crack head" sized junky or bulked up " just got out of the pen" type dope head? If the former, I'd probably bum rush him and knock the gun out of his hands knowing that his ass probably didnt even bother to load the dam thing; then open up a can of Extra Strength Beat Down on him. If the later, I would compliment him on his handmade deffensive atire, attempt to get in my vehicle and drive off while dialing 911. If cornered, aim for the head.

November 30, 2005, 03:21 PM	#13
1inthechamber Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Posts: 299	"See he is a three time loser " I wouldn't do anything since he's a 3 time loser, which means he would be in prison.

November 30, 2005, 04:10 PM	#14
stratus Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 881	After carefully considering the type of threat and weighing the consequences, I have come to the conclusion that I would uh, shoot the guy. I carry a USP .45 compact, since that was part of the question.

November 30, 2005, 05:25 PM	#15
springmom Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2005 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,823	exactly +1 Stratus, although it would probably be my Bersa Thunder .380. And for the record, I wouldn't let myself BE on the street in that situation in the first place. Not real strategic thinking at the front end.... Springmom __________________ I will not be a victim home on the web: www.panagia-icons.net (my webpage) www.nousfromspring.blogspot.com (Orthodoxy) "I couldn't hear you. Stop firing the gun while you're talking!" Frank Drebin, The Naked Gun

November 30, 2005, 06:21 PM	#16
IronBalls Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: Henderson NV Posts: 312	this exact scenario is why im thinking of upgrading my .25 Beretta Jetfire for a Desert Eagle in .50ae

November 30, 2005, 06:25 PM	#17
delta58 Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2005 Location: Florida panhandle Posts: 128	I agree with XavierBreath, if I let a guy wearing goodyear body armor that close I need to pay more attention to what's going on. However if he is that close I'm going 2 or 3 rounds(165 gr. cor-bon .45 acp) center mass and if that doesn't work everything else to the head. __________________ Doug Helms <>< "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." Ben Franklin.

November 30, 2005, 06:36 PM	#18
craigntx Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Location: galveston tx Posts: 249	keep your pistol in hand pocket of jacket (in ya hand, of course) youll get the first shot small auto or even better, hammer shrouded revolver winter is the safest time almost wish i could wear a big jacket 24/7

November 30, 2005, 07:03 PM	#19
NGP58 Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Oxford, Ma. Posts: 129	Homemade body armor won't have any effect on a good Head shot!!! ....Norm. __________________ NRA Endowment Life member, GOAL Member

November 30, 2005, 07:20 PM	#20
spacemanspiff Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2002 Location: alaska Posts: 3,498	are you saying he has tires strapped around his torso, like the michelin man? and he has a .22lr pistol? i think i'd put on my Boots of Escapement and scurry away. __________________ "Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard

November 30, 2005, 07:37 PM	#21
axslingerW Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2005 Location: St. louis Posts: 249	I live in the meth capitol. Mo had to be good at something. I see a lot of meth heads. Most of them haven't got steady enough nerves to aim. Since I carry 14 rounds of .40 every day, I feel pretty comfortable in the knowledge that I will make it back to my car alive. However, I make it a point to never let myself get into this position to start with. In St Louis we have these people on the street 24/7. Most of us just stay away from them. This is why puplic transportation is never an option for me or my family. I don't fear them, but I do my best to avoid them.