Mauser problem

jmtbiggin · December 12, 2009, 10:21 PM

Hey guys. Just bought a rifle 2 days ago. It is a mauser(93) action fitted to a 243 barrel. This thing is sweet tight shooter. 3/4 inch group at 75 yards about 3 inches left. A few taps solved that problem.Problem is it seems to be pure luck getting a round to feed. Tried slow and smooth as well as quick and forceful. sometimes the nose of the bullet snags the chamber if I try it slow. If I go fast it still may snag,although the brass will bear the brunt. If I go fast and the brass snags, the scrapes on the brass are at he bottom part facing the ground.If I go slow and bullet snags, scrapes are on the top leading edge of the lead. I did buy it from a very reputable gunsmith in Darlington,SC. I will take it back to him for resolution but am very curious about this problem that occurs 75% of the time. My K98 feeds perfectly,fast or slow. It is a 1936 original 8mm

hickstick_10 · December 12, 2009, 11:23 PM

case head diameters the same so he shouldnt have altered your bolt face.

only thing i can think of is maybe the extractor needs a reshaping?

kraigwy · December 12, 2009, 11:38 PM

Or the mag. is too long and needs modified. The 243 is a bit shorter then the orginal cart.

F. Guffey · December 13, 2009, 12:07 AM

the 243 is a neck down 308W, it is shorter from the head of the case to it's shoulder than the 7mm57 and is larger in diameter, though shorter the 243 is .455 at the shoulder, the 6mm/7mm57 parent case is .431 at the shoulder, an opinion, for the minimum work and worry the best choice for the 7mm57 is the 6mm, feed and chambering should not change.

The bolt face is the same for both cartridges, case head (rim) diameter is listed as .473 as is the 30/06, 7mm57, 8mm57. 270 etc.,etc..case ahead of the rim is listed as .471.

Pressures listed for the 243 is 57,000 psi, the 6mm is higher, up to 62,000psi, most loads for the 7mm57 are listed as 50,000 or less.

F. Guffey

HiBC · December 13, 2009, 01:08 PM

When the rounds are stacked in a mauser type mag box,they should form a tight equilateral triangle both in the rear part,at the case head,and also at the front part,by the shoulder.
Because the .308 derived cases have less taper,the diameter at the shoulder stacks up tight under the rails before the diameter at the rear does.Back there,they are loose.They will often be lower than the rails.As you push the bolt forward,the bolt face does not catch the rear face of the cartridge.
Then,as the lower edge of the bolt slides up the cartridge,it caves in the side of the case enough to get a bite,pushing the case partially forward and tying up the rifle.

It can be made to work,and I think there is a book that gives dimensions (I don't have it)

How it settles out for me?

Beginning with a milsurp mauser action can be OK.I'll do it again,as I have 2 Mex's and a 1909.

But I'll use cartridges like the 6mmRem,.257 Roberts,6.5x55 or 6.5x57,7x57,the 30-06 brass family,and so on as the rifle was made for them.

I would use any commercial short action for a .243 or 308 family,as they were made to work together.

As you have the rifle you have,maybe your smith can fix it.

F. Guffey · December 13, 2009, 03:57 PM

"Just bought a rifle 2 days ago. It is a Mauser(93) action fitted to a 243 barrel"

Too late, the rifle already exist, If asked I would suggest purchasing a Brownells catalog or get a catalog from MidwayUSA then determine what barrels are available for the Model 93 small ring, small shank, flat bottom receiver with out the third lug and no design for escaping gas, the list of available barrels does not include the 308, 6mm Remington, 270 W or the 30/06. The small ring/small shank receiver is limited in choices, the small shank barrel is listed as available for the Model 38 Turk in 308 and 30/06. There is nothing suspect about the 6.5X55 or the 7mm57.

F. Guffey

James K · December 13, 2009, 05:51 PM

When rifles with internal magazines are made for a variety of cartridges, the feed lips are changed to suit the particular cartridge for which that specific rifle is made. When the caliber is changed, the lips often have to be altered accordingly. Usually with cartridges of the same taper and same base to shoulder length, there is no problem, but with cartridges differing in that area, a change might be needed.

Jim

HiBC · December 13, 2009, 07:09 PM

Pardon me,I did not notice at first reading it was a 93 rather than a 98 mauser.That is a whole new can of worms.I am not sure I would want to put my face behind the relatively hgh intensity(for a 93) 243.And,as has been stated,it lacks several safety features,and is made with late 19th century metallurgy .

Generally speaking,used guns are not very returnable.You might ask,since it does not work right.

I would not consider it a platform to invest much in,and I would not hot rod the ammo.

m.p.driver · December 13, 2009, 07:35 PM

What about all of the 96 Sweds that Kimber rebarreled to .308,are they all timebombs waiting to go off?

jmtbiggin · December 14, 2009, 07:08 PM

I went in to the store looking for an iron sighted .243 and this was it. As for the 93 mauser being unsafe, how?Already fired 17 shots thru it, am I lucky?Winchester 100g soft points. I had it side by side with my K98 And other than the stampings ,they appeared Identical. The 243 appears to have small plus signs or crosses within a circle here and the on the action and bolt.I am gonna take it back this week, and most answers here are above my heads.Thanks for the replys. I hate it when something sweet has a gremlin to it.

F. Guffey · December 14, 2009, 10:20 PM

"I had it side by side with my K98 And other than the stampings ,they appeared Identical".

jmtbiggin, the bolt sleeve at the rear of the bolt is longer on the 93, if you remove the bolt the 93 will have two forward locking lugs and no rear safety lug, the 93 bolt will be flat on the bottom (it could have a newer round bolt) The 93 cocks when the bolt closes, the 98 cocks on open.

And the big difference is the diameter of the front receiver ring, and the 93 will not have a notch at the rear of the left rail.

F. Guffey

December 12, 2009, 10:21 PM	#1
jmtbiggin Member Join Date: December 12, 2009 Location: effingham,sc Posts: 70	Mauser problem Hey guys. Just bought a rifle 2 days ago. It is a mauser(93) action fitted to a 243 barrel. This thing is sweet tight shooter. 3/4 inch group at 75 yards about 3 inches left. A few taps solved that problem.Problem is it seems to be pure luck getting a round to feed. Tried slow and smooth as well as quick and forceful. sometimes the nose of the bullet snags the chamber if I try it slow. If I go fast it still may snag,although the brass will bear the brunt. If I go fast and the brass snags, the scrapes on the brass are at he bottom part facing the ground.If I go slow and bullet snags, scrapes are on the top leading edge of the lead. I did buy it from a very reputable gunsmith in Darlington,SC. I will take it back to him for resolution but am very curious about this problem that occurs 75% of the time. My K98 feeds perfectly,fast or slow. It is a 1936 original 8mm

December 12, 2009, 11:38 PM	#3
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Or the mag. is too long and needs modified. The 243 is a bit shorter then the orginal cart. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

December 12, 2009, 11:23 PM	#2
hickstick_10 Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 477	case head diameters the same so he shouldnt have altered your bolt face. only thing i can think of is maybe the extractor needs a reshaping?

December 13, 2009, 12:07 AM	#4
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	the 243 is a neck down 308W, it is shorter from the head of the case to it's shoulder than the 7mm57 and is larger in diameter, though shorter the 243 is .455 at the shoulder, the 6mm/7mm57 parent case is .431 at the shoulder, an opinion, for the minimum work and worry the best choice for the 7mm57 is the 6mm, feed and chambering should not change. The bolt face is the same for both cartridges, case head (rim) diameter is listed as .473 as is the 30/06, 7mm57, 8mm57. 270 etc.,etc..case ahead of the rim is listed as .471. Pressures listed for the 243 is 57,000 psi, the 6mm is higher, up to 62,000psi, most loads for the 7mm57 are listed as 50,000 or less. F. Guffey

December 13, 2009, 01:08 PM	#5
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	When the rounds are stacked in a mauser type mag box,they should form a tight equilateral triangle both in the rear part,at the case head,and also at the front part,by the shoulder. Because the .308 derived cases have less taper,the diameter at the shoulder stacks up tight under the rails before the diameter at the rear does.Back there,they are loose.They will often be lower than the rails.As you push the bolt forward,the bolt face does not catch the rear face of the cartridge. Then,as the lower edge of the bolt slides up the cartridge,it caves in the side of the case enough to get a bite,pushing the case partially forward and tying up the rifle. It can be made to work,and I think there is a book that gives dimensions (I don't have it) How it settles out for me? Beginning with a milsurp mauser action can be OK.I'll do it again,as I have 2 Mex's and a 1909. But I'll use cartridges like the 6mmRem,.257 Roberts,6.5x55 or 6.5x57,7x57,the 30-06 brass family,and so on as the rifle was made for them. I would use any commercial short action for a .243 or 308 family,as they were made to work together. As you have the rifle you have,maybe your smith can fix it.

December 13, 2009, 03:57 PM	#6
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	"Just bought a rifle 2 days ago. It is a Mauser(93) action fitted to a 243 barrel" Too late, the rifle already exist, If asked I would suggest purchasing a Brownells catalog or get a catalog from MidwayUSA then determine what barrels are available for the Model 93 small ring, small shank, flat bottom receiver with out the third lug and no design for escaping gas, the list of available barrels does not include the 308, 6mm Remington, 270 W or the 30/06. The small ring/small shank receiver is limited in choices, the small shank barrel is listed as available for the Model 38 Turk in 308 and 30/06. There is nothing suspect about the 6.5X55 or the 7mm57. F. Guffey

December 13, 2009, 05:51 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	When rifles with internal magazines are made for a variety of cartridges, the feed lips are changed to suit the particular cartridge for which that specific rifle is made. When the caliber is changed, the lips often have to be altered accordingly. Usually with cartridges of the same taper and same base to shoulder length, there is no problem, but with cartridges differing in that area, a change might be needed. Jim

December 13, 2009, 07:09 PM	#8
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	Pardon me,I did not notice at first reading it was a 93 rather than a 98 mauser.That is a whole new can of worms.I am not sure I would want to put my face behind the relatively hgh intensity(for a 93) 243.And,as has been stated,it lacks several safety features,and is made with late 19th century metallurgy . Generally speaking,used guns are not very returnable.You might ask,since it does not work right. I would not consider it a platform to invest much in,and I would not hot rod the ammo.

December 13, 2009, 07:35 PM	#9
m.p.driver Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 552	What about all of the 96 Sweds that Kimber rebarreled to .308,are they all timebombs waiting to go off?

December 14, 2009, 07:08 PM	#10
jmtbiggin Member Join Date: December 12, 2009 Location: effingham,sc Posts: 70	I went in to the store looking for an iron sighted .243 and this was it. As for the 93 mauser being unsafe, how?Already fired 17 shots thru it, am I lucky?Winchester 100g soft points. I had it side by side with my K98 And other than the stampings ,they appeared Identical. The 243 appears to have small plus signs or crosses within a circle here and the on the action and bolt.I am gonna take it back this week, and most answers here are above my heads.Thanks for the replys. I hate it when something sweet has a gremlin to it.

December 14, 2009, 10:20 PM	#11
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	"I had it side by side with my K98 And other than the stampings ,they appeared Identical". jmtbiggin, the bolt sleeve at the rear of the bolt is longer on the 93, if you remove the bolt the 93 will have two forward locking lugs and no rear safety lug, the 93 bolt will be flat on the bottom (it could have a newer round bolt) The 93 cocks when the bolt closes, the 98 cocks on open. And the big difference is the diameter of the front receiver ring, and the 93 will not have a notch at the rear of the left rail. F. Guffey