Old Reloads

kimbers rule · November 6, 2012, 11:31 PM

I have a question for you guys. My father in law gave my wife his dads .270 and along with it were quite a few rounds that her grandad loaded in the 70s and 80s. The reloads are of high quality components and all labeled well,but about 1 in 5 the case mouths split when shot. Should I just blast away with them or pull em, and save the components? Also, if I pull em can I anneal the brass and expect any case life in the future?

45YearsShooting · November 7, 2012, 12:11 AM

Exposure to ammonia can weaken the brass. Bore cleaning solvents often contain ammonia because the ammonia helps dissolve copper fouling. Brass is 70-percent copper. Still, some people shine up brass by using ammonia. Bad idea.

Personally, I would not shoot them. I'd pull the bullets and look for any corrosion on the bullets too, or funny smelling powder. Perhaps the powder has gone bad and released some chemicals that attacked the brass. I've used 30-year powder with no problems, but that does not mean that some powder can't go bad. However, I'd vote for ammonia exposure as the culprit.

Exibar · November 7, 2012, 02:22 AM

I agree, I'd be careful with that ammo. Even though I would have done the same thing you did and tried a few rounds... the cases splitting like that throw up a red flag for sure....

pull the bullets, toss the powder and throw the old brass in the salvage yard bucket. Better to be safe than to be sorry, you've already seen a bunch of them malfunction...

Mike B

NWPilgrim · November 7, 2012, 02:40 AM

I have a policy of not shooting anybody else's reload ammo unless I have seen them reloading, talked with them and know some history of their quality control. the several cracked cases is another indicator something is wrong. Either he did not inspect his cases and they were already split when loaded, or they were exposed to chemical such as ammonia. either way that was not very careful handling of cases.

I would definitely disassemble the cartridges, all of them. Bullets for sure can be saved. For .270 I would try pulling them with the hammer type inertia puller to avoid damage to the jacket and core.

Even though he kept notes, I would not take the chance of knowing for sure the powder is what the label says, and would toss it out onto the lawn as fertilizer.

If it was poor inspection and a percentage of cases just wore out and cracked then the others may be fine but bare close inspection. If the cracks are so bad it is obvious they were not cracked during reloading and failed at a later date then it is likely chemical exposure and all of the cases are suspect. Recycle them as junk brass after depriming them.

It is not so bad to toss out unknown powder, but it does hurt to toss out a bunch of brass. But no cost savings are worth a safety risk. At least the bullets are inert and reusable!

rebs · November 7, 2012, 05:22 AM

That ammo has shown to be questionable, so I would not shoot any more of it. Why take the chance of a disaster happening. Pull the bullets and save them but get rid of the powder and cases.

4runnerman · November 7, 2012, 06:54 AM

I have a policy of not shooting anybody else's reload ammo unless I have seen them reloading Ditto to that. ONly have one set of eyes and hands.

That ammo has shown to be questionable, so I would not shoot any more of it. Why take the chance of a disaster happening. Pull the bullets and save them but get rid of the powder and cases

Rebs hit it on that one. +1

kimbers rule · November 7, 2012, 09:22 AM

Thanks for the info. Ive read that age can harden brass and cause case mouths to split. Im sure the ammo wasn't faulty when it was made. Ill pull them all anyways.

William T. Watts · November 7, 2012, 09:34 AM

I have had ammunition that exhibited cracked necks in as little as 8-9 years, these were loaded in once fired R-P or W-W cases. As I am typing this I am reminded I have several hundred rounds I will be pulling down because of this problem. I will pull the bullets and recycle the cases, still the question remains what happened? As I recall the powder (W760 & H4831) were recent purchases in there original containers and no more than 2-3 years old at the time of loading. To the best of my recollection this has never happened when virgin cases were used. I don't think I will load anything that involves long term storage again, I still have a little of the H4831 left that passes the visual and smell test.. William

dickttx · November 7, 2012, 07:59 PM

I had a half box of Winchester nickel 357 Mag that I had reloaded about forty years ago. When I started reloading again a couple of years ago I fired all my old ammo. More than half of these had split necks after firing. The 45 ACP, 45 Colt, and 41 Mag in brass cases fired OK and no split cases.

Slamfire · November 9, 2012, 12:01 PM

Section from the Propellant Management Guide:

Stabilizers are chemical ingredients added to propellant at time of manufacture to
decrease the rate of propellant degradation and reduce the probability of auto ignition during its expected useful life.

As nitrocellulose-based propellants decompose, they release nitrogen oxides. If the nitrogen oxides are left free to react in the propellant, they can react with the nitrate ester, causing further decomposition and additional release of nitrogen oxides. The reaction between the nitrate ester and the nitrogen oxides is exothermic (i.e., the reaction produces heat). Heat increases the rate of propellant decomposition. More importantly, the exothermic nature of the reaction creates a problem if sufficient heat is generated to initiate combustion. Chemical additives, referred to as stabilizers, are added to propellant formulations to react with free nitrogen oxides to prevent their attack on the nitrate esters in the propellant. The stabilizers are scavengers that act rather like sponges, and once they become “saturated” they are no longer able to remove nitrogen oxides from the propellant. Self-heating of the propellant can occur unabated at the “saturation” point without the ameliorating effect of the stabilizer. Once begun, the self-heating may become sufficient to cause auto ignition.

If you have enough NOx outgassing it will crack case necks.

kimbers rule · November 10, 2012, 12:06 AM

So, does that mean that the problem is in the powder and not the brass? Id like to save the brass if possible.

November 6, 2012, 11:31 PM	#1
kimbers rule Member Join Date: November 3, 2012 Location: State of Jefferson Posts: 95	Old Reloads I have a question for you guys. My father in law gave my wife his dads .270 and along with it were quite a few rounds that her grandad loaded in the 70s and 80s. The reloads are of high quality components and all labeled well,but about 1 in 5 the case mouths split when shot. Should I just blast away with them or pull em, and save the components? Also, if I pull em can I anneal the brass and expect any case life in the future?

November 7, 2012, 02:40 AM	#4
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	I have a policy of not shooting anybody else's reload ammo unless I have seen them reloading, talked with them and know some history of their quality control. the several cracked cases is another indicator something is wrong. Either he did not inspect his cases and they were already split when loaded, or they were exposed to chemical such as ammonia. either way that was not very careful handling of cases. I would definitely disassemble the cartridges, all of them. Bullets for sure can be saved. For .270 I would try pulling them with the hammer type inertia puller to avoid damage to the jacket and core. Even though he kept notes, I would not take the chance of knowing for sure the powder is what the label says, and would toss it out onto the lawn as fertilizer. If it was poor inspection and a percentage of cases just wore out and cracked then the others may be fine but bare close inspection. If the cracks are so bad it is obvious they were not cracked during reloading and failed at a later date then it is likely chemical exposure and all of the cases are suspect. Recycle them as junk brass after depriming them. It is not so bad to toss out unknown powder, but it does hurt to toss out a bunch of brass. But no cost savings are worth a safety risk. At least the bullets are inert and reusable! __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

November 7, 2012, 06:54 AM	#6
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	I have a policy of not shooting anybody else's reload ammo unless I have seen them reloading Ditto to that. ONly have one set of eyes and hands. That ammo has shown to be questionable, so I would not shoot any more of it. Why take the chance of a disaster happening. Pull the bullets and save them but get rid of the powder and cases Rebs hit it on that one. +1 __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

November 7, 2012, 09:34 AM	#8
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	H4831 packaged in 1993 I have had ammunition that exhibited cracked necks in as little as 8-9 years, these were loaded in once fired R-P or W-W cases. As I am typing this I am reminded I have several hundred rounds I will be pulling down because of this problem. I will pull the bullets and recycle the cases, still the question remains what happened? As I recall the powder (W760 & H4831) were recent purchases in there original containers and no more than 2-3 years old at the time of loading. To the best of my recollection this has never happened when virgin cases were used. I don't think I will load anything that involves long term storage again, I still have a little of the H4831 left that passes the visual and smell test.. William Last edited by William T. Watts; November 7, 2012 at 11:08 AM.

November 7, 2012, 07:59 PM	#9
dickttx Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 500	I had a half box of Winchester nickel 357 Mag that I had reloaded about forty years ago. When I started reloading again a couple of years ago I fired all my old ammo. More than half of these had split necks after firing. The 45 ACP, 45 Colt, and 41 Mag in brass cases fired OK and no split cases. __________________ Education teaches you the rules, experience teaches you the exceptions (Plagiarized from Claude Clay)

November 7, 2012, 12:11 AM	#2
45YearsShooting Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 105	Exposure to ammonia can weaken the brass. Bore cleaning solvents often contain ammonia because the ammonia helps dissolve copper fouling. Brass is 70-percent copper. Still, some people shine up brass by using ammonia. Bad idea. Personally, I would not shoot them. I'd pull the bullets and look for any corrosion on the bullets too, or funny smelling powder. Perhaps the powder has gone bad and released some chemicals that attacked the brass. I've used 30-year powder with no problems, but that does not mean that some powder can't go bad. However, I'd vote for ammonia exposure as the culprit.

November 7, 2012, 02:22 AM	#3
Exibar Member Join Date: November 4, 2012 Posts: 26	I agree, I'd be careful with that ammo. Even though I would have done the same thing you did and tried a few rounds... the cases splitting like that throw up a red flag for sure.... pull the bullets, toss the powder and throw the old brass in the salvage yard bucket. Better to be safe than to be sorry, you've already seen a bunch of them malfunction... Mike B

November 7, 2012, 05:22 AM	#5
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	That ammo has shown to be questionable, so I would not shoot any more of it. Why take the chance of a disaster happening. Pull the bullets and save them but get rid of the powder and cases.

November 7, 2012, 09:22 AM	#7
kimbers rule Member Join Date: November 3, 2012 Location: State of Jefferson Posts: 95	Thanks for the info. Ive read that age can harden brass and cause case mouths to split. Im sure the ammo wasn't faulty when it was made. Ill pull them all anyways.

November 9, 2012, 12:01 PM	#10
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	Section from the Propellant Management Guide: Stabilizers are chemical ingredients added to propellant at time of manufacture to decrease the rate of propellant degradation and reduce the probability of auto ignition during its expected useful life. As nitrocellulose-based propellants decompose, they release nitrogen oxides. If the nitrogen oxides are left free to react in the propellant, they can react with the nitrate ester, causing further decomposition and additional release of nitrogen oxides. The reaction between the nitrate ester and the nitrogen oxides is exothermic (i.e., the reaction produces heat). Heat increases the rate of propellant decomposition. More importantly, the exothermic nature of the reaction creates a problem if sufficient heat is generated to initiate combustion. Chemical additives, referred to as stabilizers, are added to propellant formulations to react with free nitrogen oxides to prevent their attack on the nitrate esters in the propellant. The stabilizers are scavengers that act rather like sponges, and once they become “saturated” they are no longer able to remove nitrogen oxides from the propellant. Self-heating of the propellant can occur unabated at the “saturation” point without the ameliorating effect of the stabilizer. Once begun, the self-heating may become sufficient to cause auto ignition. If you have enough NOx outgassing it will crack case necks. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

November 10, 2012, 12:06 AM	#11
kimbers rule Member Join Date: November 3, 2012 Location: State of Jefferson Posts: 95	So, does that mean that the problem is in the powder and not the brass? Id like to save the brass if possible.