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Old October 22, 2001, 03:35 PM   #1
300winguy
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357 bullets/powder for deer?

I only have a S&W 686 357 mag with a four inche barrel.(no I can't buy a 44mag etc) I would like to hunt deer with it (out to 25 yards)Yes, this is legal in my state. What powder bullet combination would be best overall? I currently have 158 and 170 grain Sierra jacketed hollow points to load up. Would either of these be reliable?
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Old October 22, 2001, 04:54 PM   #2
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There's probably only about 3 powders that can give you deer hunting speed and energy-WW296,H110 or Alliant 2400. Probably the 170gr JHP would be your best bet.
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Old October 22, 2001, 07:38 PM   #3
Keith J
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158 JHP driven by IMR 4227 @ maximum loads. Its safe and clean. Choose your shot carefully, its marginal.
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Old October 23, 2001, 01:05 AM   #4
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I would suggest LBT's design 180gr WLN-GC cast bullet with enough H110 to get it to 1,000fps.
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Old October 23, 2001, 05:55 AM   #5
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LIMITED BY CYLINDER LENGTH

Suggest 158g XTP-HP over W296, H110, N110, AA9, 2400.

A well-aimed shot will work; a poorly placed shot will not.
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Old October 23, 2001, 08:05 AM   #6
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THe short tube is going to limit you, but I would use the 170 grain bullet. I use the 180 grain Hornady XTP-JHP over 12.0 grains of A2400. I shot this load last weekend and it did very well. I shoot these out of a 6 inch S&W 586. I also limit myself to a 25 yard shot. It is all that I am capable of accurately shooting because I don't get to practice enough. I hunt down in southern Indiana near the small town of Dubois. Where are you going to be hunting?

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Old October 23, 2001, 09:02 AM   #7
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I suggest Speer's 160 grain semi-jackted semiwadcutter (sometimes called "short jacket soft point") over a max load of Win 296 and a magnum pistol primer. This design has proven to be a very deep and reliable penetrator in game.
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Old October 23, 2001, 10:03 AM   #8
Johnny Guest
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Whitetail with a Short .357

300winguy - - -

Practice kit for handgun hunting deer---

- -Cheap package of paper plates, about ten-inch diameter
- -cheapest can of gray or tan spray paint
- -Stapler or masking tape.
- - Safe place to shoot
- -Couple of boxes of hunting ammo

Spray plates a color similar to deer in your hunting area--Just not something in high contrast colors..

Hang plates at varying distances. Practice shooting them FROM FIELD POSITIONS.. It does no good to practice from bench with formal rest. Sitting, standing, over a tree limb-- positions like these. The distance at which you can reliably put five out of six into the plate is max range for that position. Then go back and do it with some sort of artificial time constraint. The deer will not stand around all day, waiting on you.

I used to think that because I could make good hits at 75 yards from a bench, this was my range. WRONG-O! A bit of field experience and realistic practice showed me that the true distance was more like 30 yards, and, with any kind of fudge factor, nearer to 20 yards. Be brutally honest with yourself about the limitations of your gear and your skill.

I have limited experience hunting deer with an iron-sighted, four-inch .357. With the best loads available (consider the 170 or 180 bullets, as fast as you can safely and controllably push ‘em,) home brewed or over the counter, this is still a marginal proposition without short range and perfect placement. Sure, it can be done. Heck, it CAN be done with a .22 rimfire. But we--most of us, anyway--are sports hunters. We owe it to ourselves and to the animals we hunt to make clean kills. The fact that you seek input on this forum indicates that you want to do it right.

I envy you the prospect of your hunt. Very best of luck to you.
Johnny
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Old October 23, 2001, 12:42 PM   #9
300winguy
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I will be hunting on the hoosier national forest. I'm not much of a shot beyond 25 yards either.
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Old October 23, 2001, 01:37 PM   #10
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I am a big believer in the 170 and 180 grain bullets for the .357 for deer. THAT SAID, I'm a bigger believer in practice, practice, practice. Typically, you'll practice more with the 158g loads. Why? Because they recoil less (muzzle flip with the 4" will be sumpin' fierce), and they're generally a little cheaper. (158 being far more standardized than 180 or 170, and they're, well, lighter.)

Johnny's got a good point on the practice kit. Practice bunches from a variety of field positions, and keep moving back (or up) to find the point where you can reliably keep 'em on that plate.

Me, I think I'd probably load a bunch of 2400 behind a 158g XTP, and practice, practice, practice. (Note: you can practice with a cheaper jacketed 158 loaded to the same velocity, for the same effect!)
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Old October 23, 2001, 05:33 PM   #11
300winguy
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Thanks for all the info, I have a much clearer view of were the 357 fits into deer hunting. Two questions, I haven't been reloading 357 ammo for very long. I have been mostly using the middle of the road powders, not the slow burners like H110, 2400, and W296. Do I need a heavy crimp with these slow burners and 170-180gr. bullets? Second, from everything I have heard at gunshops etc, I have been lead to believe that twenty five yards is max range. What would you all see as the maximum range of this caliber, assuming the shooter is accurate at which ever range?max
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Old October 23, 2001, 09:04 PM   #12
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357 out of pistol barrel: I would not take a shot at deer past 50 yards on a normal hunt, over 25 only with a piture-perfect target. (Survival situation obviously very different)
As far as actual loads, I agree with WESHOOT2, leaning toward the N110 powder out of his list.
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Old October 23, 2001, 09:28 PM   #13
Johnny Guest
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Max max range or Really MAAXXX range?

I tend to agree with the 25 yard max for sporting deer hunting situation with the .357, especially in a four-inch barrel with iron sights.

Energy is largely a funciton of velocity, even when using a bullet of goodly weight. There's only so much velocity you can get out of a four-inch bbl. The farther the bullet gets from the muzzle, the slower it gets.

This is not to say one cannot hit a deer in the vitals beyond 25 yards; only that the strike will be vary noticibly weaker at 50 yards than at 25. Will it get into the deer and do some damage? Surely. Will the deer die? Almost certainly. But if he's MY deer, I want him to stop right NOW, or within a few steps, and not two or three hundred yards away, through (invariably) the thickest brush in four counties. Also, the longer range show is less apt to exit the deer, leaving far less chance of a good blood trail. With practice, you can hit a deer at 100 yards with your revolver. Just not hard enough.

As to the handloading technique: Yes, you need to invest in a pound of 2400 or H110 or similar, slower burning powder, to extract maximum performance from the round. And yes, you need a heavy crimp on the bullet, to allow proper pressure to develop. You need all the pep you can get from your four-inch.

Given a longish barrel, for higher velocity and energy, plus a scope to ensure pinpoint placement, okay, fifty yards maybe. But this is not the situation under discussion.

Twenty-five yards, really.

Best,
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Old October 24, 2001, 01:29 AM   #14
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It's been done at longer.

And you'll read about it.

And you'll think one of two things:
  • [1]"That dude in the gunzine's a stunt-pullin' yahoo!"

    [2]"Those guys at TFL are a bunch of old ladies who clearly don't understand what a .357 mag is capable of!"

I read one gunzine writer who wrote of taking a deer with his .357 at 110 yds. Of course, he had an 8 5/8" barrel, a 4 power scope, and a custom action, pushing a 125g hp out at around 1700 fps, and he was a professional shooter who shot this stuff all the time, but, still and all, it was a stunt, plain and simple.

If you can put the shots 6 out of 6 on a paper plate at the range, I'll up the range to 35 yards, but you had better hit exactly what you're aiming at!

Good luck!

L.P.
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Old October 24, 2001, 07:13 AM   #15
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MORE

Heavy crimp using REDDING Profile Crimp die, 357 range limited by how far you can ALWAYS hit a paper plate, the cartridge when loaded correctly and fired through a Freedom Arms or Redhawk is a 150 yd deer cartridge.

My 4" GP hunting was limited to 100 yds (180g load).


Your results may vary.
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Old October 28, 2001, 09:23 PM   #16
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Since folks are shooting deer all day long over 100 yards with 357 mag rifles, 50 yards is fine. Use Winchester 296 and magnum primers with those Sierra bullets. I personally use Hornady XTP's. A heavy bullet crimp is required with magnum powders. Here's the web site for Winchester's reloader manual 15. Down load it and look up the 357 data. Pay attention to the *. 296 powder charges should not be reduced.
http://www.winchester.com/ammunition...components.eye
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