My beef with the AR 'know-it-all'

[tahunua001]

how did we get on the topic of youtube? I haven't seen one reference to the site in this thread. I think it's more about people starting threads asking for reviews and getting a slew of tactical-ninja-seal-ranger-operator-swat-trainer-range officers telling them to drop the idea of whatever they are considering and to get the stuff that they like instead with no justification given for their comments.

[zach_]

Sounds like a gun shop/gun range groupie. You know, the guy that never buys anything, never has a gun with him to shoot, and asks if you are keeping your brass.

[madmo44mag]

My AR's are pretty bare because that's the way I like them.
But I live by your gun your money and spend all ya want because that is what keeps this sport alive.

[stagpanther]

It just baffles me that people seem they have the right to tell someone what they should or shouldnt do with their own stuff.

How else would there be firearms forums?

[chris in va]

I think this work both ways.I have a bare bones SW Sport with a mid priced red dot.Its function has been flawless and I am happy with it. At the range or if I mention it on the web, I get "well its OK for an entry level rifle. Or I would never trust my life to that range toy. That could never be home defense weapon without the latest laser powered mega light with integral bi pod."

Same here. I've put on and taken off more scopes and dots than I can remember, and I keep coming back to the basics. As a matter of fact, I'm looking to sell my Sport and get a newer Mini. Never cared for tactical fluff.

[Sevens]

how did we get on the topic of youtube? I haven't seen one reference to the site in this thread.[/QUOTE]
Sixth word of the original post in this thread.

[marine6680]

Some people only have movies and games as a reference for what to put on a fighting rifle, and they fall for the flashiness. For the most part, its harmless fun to put all the junk on there.

Some people load up their rifle with a ton of crap... And then claim its for "home defense" or "SHTF"...

Well ok...

Can they add all the crap if they want to? Sure... but if they are serious about using the rifle in a realistic way, should it ever be needed... Then a little advice on KISS isn't a bad thing... especially if they come looking for that advise.


Here is my take on all that crap for a serious fighting rifle... most of it is useless and a waste of space and added heft. A rifle that is focused, is better able to do its intended job. There are some reasonable middle ground setups, but you loose something, as they will not be great at any one thing.

Home defense, or a basic setup for close to medium range... A red dot, and some backup irons. You don't even need free float, a set of magpul hand-guards will allow adding a flashlight if you want one for home defense.

[Taco-XL]

Sixth word of the original post in this thread.

Nice to see some people actually read before they post

I really wasnt referring to the guy that gives advice when asked, thats why we ask to begin with and i too will give my honest opinion to whatever question someone has. I aimed my post to those range jerks, weekend commandos, and the Leonard Lawrence types (Full Metal Jacket). The Gung-ho for war radicals and those who act like Hitler when talking about what is best for an AR.

[tahunua001]

hmmm... apparently I was a bit scatter brained when I read the OP. sorry guys.

[Taco-XL]

I just watched Nutnfacy's 2 part video on youtube about this topic. It falls in line with what im talking about. He talks about shaving 2-3 ounces because it will be better, faster for running around in the desert against some fictional enemy. Again, not all ARs are intended for SHTF. Also he contradicts himself by giving the idea you dont need all that crap for every given scenario, yet he has a gazillion ARs for 'every scenario' i could imagine. So even if we only limit this debate to SHTF builds, you arent going to take 6 different ARs with you either so his points contradict themselves. He doesnt have 20 attatchments but instead has 20 guns? I like his channel a lot and agree with most of the stuff he talks about, but i disagree with his 'blanket' approach on this topic.

Oh and not to change the subject but does anyone know if there is anyone who has actually done tests/drills to see if just a few more ounces actually makes any difference of quickness/accuracy/mobility etc.? Im not talking 2-3 lbs, but i wonder if a few ounces are actually even noticeable. Something to ponder on.

[Ibmikey]

I have replied to questions on outfitting an AR and almost always I suggest they consider those things they hang off their rifle as it all adds weight. Maybe I can save them money by not buying items that will spend time in a drawer but ultimately one will build the way one wishes. If the weapon is used for night hunting weight becomes a real issue, especially for us old guys, but night vision is bulky and heavy so it is necessary to just buck up and deal with it. It is very convenient to hang a light or laser (I am not a laser fan) along with the night vision but on my night forays I tend to keep the rifle as light as possible and stick a couple of flashlights in my kit. Bottom line hang what ever on the rifle but do not remind me that it is not the light easy handling jungle fighting weapon it was designed to be. Another point, anything you bolt on can be taken off----I know just look in my junk drawer!

[tirod]

What I'm hearing is that professionals keep their gear lean and clean, using skill and expertise to accomplish the mission.

And those who have a lot of money spend it on décor to impress others at the range, and they don't like being called out for it.

I don't think this is anything new. It's been going on since Man stood upright.

[buckhorn_cortez]

And those who have a lot of money spend it on décor to impress others at the range, and they don't like being called out for it.

Pure speculation and conjecture on your part...

[marine6680]

He talks about shaving 2-3 ounces because it will be better

I think its more along the lines of... Save a couple ounces on your stock, a few on the scope, a couple on the mount... etc.

All that savings may make the difference between a rifle that weights 9lb vs 8lb or something along that line.

Serious backpackers do this... buy the lightest gear they can, as it makes for a lighter pack, or that they can carry more food/water for the same overall weight.

So there is merit in the idea. The question is if it will matter to you.


He can also afford to have many ARs, and have them set up in different ways to fit the type of shooting he wants to do that day... I don't think he is advocating carrying a bunch of rifles.

If you can't afford more rifles, QD mounts can allow easy changes between setups.


If you really were faced with SHTF, and were limited to yourself and maybe a friend to trek a couple hundred miles to a safe zone, and there was possibility to need to defend yourself... a couple basic carbines would be the best way to go. An SPR would put you at a disadvantage when you are limited in support, and trying to make a jack of all trades (RECCE type in my thinking) kind of rifle is also a disadvantage when you have little support... If you have group with you, then it might be nice to throw in an SPR or RECCE type rifle or two in the mix to expand capabilities.

Thats all hypothetical... as home defense is the more likely thing, and a basic setup is best there.


But... people can do what they want with their rifles, and for the most likely use of range toy, it matters not one bit.

[Brotherbadger]

It just baffles me that people seem they have the right to tell someone what they should or shouldnt do with their own stuff. You wouldnt walk up to someone on the street and call them stupid because you didnt like the shirt or shoes they had on. Or because it wasnt just like yours. I just wish people would show more respect for others and keep their nose in their own business.

I think I know the YouTube channel you are talking about(he recently started a series specifically on having too much stuff on your AR). In his defense, his entire channel is about giving his opinion(many of his opinions I disagree with). He also isn't saying what you have on is stupid, but under his philosophy of use, it's unnecessary.

He talks about shaving 2-3 ounces because it will be better, faster for running around in the desert against some fictional enemy. Again, not all ARs are intended for SHTF.

Once again, it's about his philosophy of use. All of his reviews are based on his POU. His setups are for SHTF, WROL, ect. For short travel hunting or plinking ounces really don't matter.

It's like hiking. If I'm going out for a 4 mile day hike, I don't really worry about the weight. If I'm doing a multi day trip, I'm counting every ounce.

[Skans]

When it comes down to it, what does anyone need an AR-15 for anyway? It's basically a semi-auto, 55-60 grain mid-power .22. In full-auto, or tri-burst, I suppose that makes it perhaps the equivalent of a 165 grain cartridge, and sort of useful for killing things bigger than Coyotes.

So, my take is that anyone who even has an AR15 already has one foot in his mall-ninja uniform. Putting more stuff on an AR15....well, if you already have a mall-ninja gun, is it really possible to make it more mall-ninja?


Having said all that - I have 3 AR15's; a Colt SP1 Carbine - as it was when it left the factory; One that I assembled and put a rail system and a couple of neat doo-dads on; and a Carbon-15 Pistol. Yes, I'm a mall-ninja too!

[BlueTrain]

I don't mind anyone modifying their gun, any gun. There is a fashion side to what people do, of course, and I'm guilty of that, too. I'd probably find someone's pet rifle to be very interesting.

What I do find curious is the sometimes expressed idea that gun and ammo manufacturers don't really know what they're doing and their products are really only worthwhile after certain essential modifications and enhancements, either internal or external, are made. Some model guns are more susceptible to this idea than others and I don't think AR variations are the worst. But people were doing things like that to their Model 70 Winchesters when we were in grade school. You see them at gun shows today.

[highpower3006]

Man I know what you mean, I got my AR fixed up just the way I wanted. When I took it to the range, people were pointing at it and making comments.

I think they really liked it.......

[rickyrick]

I go a different way with my rifles......

[rickyrick]

I've become a bit of a hippie as I get older.... I used to get all wound up over people getting tacticool stuff amongst other things....
Now I've got the attitude if it makes you happy and it ain't hurting no one, go for it

[Skadoosh]

I know enough to listen to those who have a lot more down-range experience with the platform than I do...wisdom is often collective experience.

[Skans]

Has anyone successfully added an underfolder to an AR-15? Now, that would be cool!

[44 AMP]

It just baffles me that people seem to think they have the right to tell someone what they should or shouldn't do with their own stuff.

I would be happy to let the rest of the world tell me what I should or shouldn't do with my own stuff, I don't listen to them, anyway.

Now, if there was only some way to stop POLITICIANS from doing that, I'd be really happy!

[BlueTrain]

Elect a different politician. Or don't have a government.

[rickyrick]

Give me more than one vote ... Lol...

Elections are bought by the highest bidder...

Since I've moved to the PNW it's become more clear to me than ever...

A good moral to this thread would be this;
The funny thing about freedom is the fact that sometimes you have to let others do things that you don't like.... Some people like stuff on their rifles, some don't