Briley tube set

lablover · November 2, 2009, 05:09 PM

Briley makes 2 types of companion tube sets: A lightweight and a standard weight.
I'm about to purchase a used, 5 year old Browning XS Special in 12 ga. I will purchase a 20 ga tube set for it.
Having never owned an O/U, let alone one with a tube insert, what shoud I be aware of in buying the tube set?
Is the lighweight tube set as strong as the standard weight? What are the tubes made of, Stainless steel or aluminum?
If you were in my shoes, what would your concerns be?

THANKS!!

1911 Shooter · November 2, 2009, 05:22 PM

a little advice.hit the skeet clubs, they are always plenty of great U$ed one's around with 20,28 & 410 tubes.

zippy13 · November 3, 2009, 03:42 AM

Like other Briley tubes, the Companions have a stainless steel chamber section and an alloy barrel. Typically, the light weight tubes use a lighter alloy for the barrel section and involve more machining. All captured extractor type tubes have a common weak point: the chamber wall is very thin in the 20-ga tubes. I had one well used 20-ga tube split under the extractor (this is not uncommon). Briley promptly replaced it at no cost.

Unless you're a comp shooter, I wouldn't recommend a pair of tubes. If you just want to be able to shoot 12 and 20-ga, look for a gun with two barrels. It's much less demanding than tubes. Remember, with tubes, to switch to 20-ga you must first meticulously clean the 12-ga barrels. It's much easier and faster with a simple barrel change. Also, the general shooting public is more familiar with two barrels on one action than tubed barrels.

The application of full length tube sets started with comp sheet shooters wanting a uniform gun for all four gauge events. You started with a comp 12-ga O/U and sent it off to have three pairs of tubes fitted to the gun. This worked fine -- with the weight of the tubes added, the 12-ga was smooth swinging and the kick reduced. To compensate for the lack of the tube mass when shooting in 12-ga events, a weight is often clamped to the barrel.

Further developments lead to tubes that didn't require custom fitting (Briley Companion) and the carrier barrel concept. With it you start with two matched 12-ga barrels, one is for shooting and the other is significantly lightened and is used with just the tubes, the carrier barrel. It plus the tubes is the same weight as the 12-ga shooting barrel. This is an expensive set-up and is for serious comp shooters who find the standard tube set up a little too heavy and/or don't want to worry about a barrel scrubbing when switching to tubes after a 12-ga event.

BigJimP · November 3, 2009, 10:00 AM

I don't like the "tube" concept either - unless you go to a "carrier barrel" to shoot the tube - and like Zippy says, it adds about 10 oz of weight to the gun with the tubes and changes the swing characteristics a lot ( and to me, makes the gun nose heavy usually).

The only way a "tubed" gun makes sense to me is if you shoot it exclusively with the tubes in the gun - so you shoot a 20ga in 12ga events ( and you can buy a 28ga and .410 tube set as well ) - so you would end up with 3 sets of tubes and a gun you can shoot as a 20, 28ga and .410.

Like Zippy also says, you have to watch your pressures on the very thin 20ga tubes in a 12ga gun / or you will probably develop some cracking.

Personally, I'm not a serious competitive shooter anymore - so it makes more sense to me, to just have 3 or 4 guns vs messing with the tube sets.

zippy13 · November 3, 2009, 11:37 AM

Unlike my friend BigJim, I'm shooting Skeet with a conventionally tubed O/U. For me, the added weight works out perfectly. It should be noted that the Briley tubed P-guns I campaigned with have the old school 28-inch barrels. (My "heavy gun" is Mirage based and my "light gun" is SC3 based with the tubes terminated short to accommodate the Tula choke/port system.) BigJim, on the other hand, prefers to shoot much longer barrels than I do. I can see where these could become awkward to swing if tubed.

BigJim mentioned that, "I'm not a serious competitive shooter anymore - so it makes more sense to me, to just have 3 or 4 guns vs messing with the tube sets." This takes him back to the beginning where some comp shooters went to tubes because they couldn't abide shooting a different gun in each event.

Another obvious problem with a tubed gun is break-down. If BigJim breaks a firing pin, he just uses a different gun until it's fixed. If you have only a tubed gun, you have to fix it on the spot, or you're a DNF in all the subsequent events. Not to start a brand loyalty argument; but, with the P-guns, I can quickly change broken firing pins and hammer springs in the field.

BigJimP · November 3, 2009, 07:00 PM

like Zippy says - I do think the Tube Set idea is superior - if you go to a Carrier Barrel / so everything feels and looks the same.

Even though my "4 guns " are similar / and all Browning XS Skeet models, with 30" barrels - there is a little difference in them. The 20, 28ga and .410 are all built on the 20ga frame ( but they aren't identical / although they're close ) - and the 12ga is almost 1lb heavier. I compensate with lead tape under for-end and in stock / but it isn't as good as a Carrier Barrel with a tube set. It isn't nearly a cheaper option to go with 4 guns ( I have about $10,000 tied up in the 4 XS Skeet models )...

Zippy and I don't really disagree .... I just went one route / he went another - but if I was serious about competing, I would buy a Carrier Barrel and Tubes in 20, 28ga and .410 ...

lablover · November 3, 2009, 07:37 PM

Zippy13 & Big Jimp,

Thank you for the though provoking comments! Somehow I knew there was more to this than meets the eye.

What's a P-gun?

I have little desire to shoot registered targets. All I'm trying to do here is become a better wing shot. I enjoy shooting skeet with the 20 ga semi-auto as its reasonably inexpensive to shoot & reload.

When I got the idea of buying the used XS Special, naturally I thought putting 20 ga tubes in it was the way to go... essentially 2 guns in one so to speak. The XS Special weighs 8 lb 10 oz or so and Briley says the tube set will add about 14 oz to the gun. That's over 9 lbs!

Perhaps the thing to do is forget the whole thing. Or, just buy a XS Skeet 20 ga O/U and shoot with that. Then just shoot my SBE a few times prior to waterfowl season and let it go at that.

Where would I find a 20 ga set of barrels to fit the 12 ga XS Special frame? Any idea of the cost of that?

Thanks for your detailed descriptions and thoughts. I do appreciate your concern to help me do the right thing.

oneounceload · November 3, 2009, 08:05 PM

P-gun is a Perazzi - the gun of Olympic champions

As to tubes, look at Briley, Kolar, Seminole, and Rhino - all make full tubes or a short version that might work for you.

Personally, if it was me, and I was going to shoot skeet with all 4 gauges, the Kolar with a carrier barrel and sub tunes to go with the 12 gauge barrel would be ideal - but that is for serious competition.

If all you want is to become a better wing shot, pick a good bird gun in 20 and practice, practice, practice

mwar410 · November 3, 2009, 09:56 PM

if your wingshooting, you certainly don't need the extra weight. try the shorter drop-ins, they seem to pattern pretty well, and don't add any weight to the gun. I used a set in a model 21 that kicked like a mule, with the 28 ga. tubes it was fun to shoot skeet with.

zippy13 · November 3, 2009, 11:38 PM

When tubing a 12-ga O/U with 20's, be they full length or shorties, a safety issue comes up: DO NOT tube just one barrel. Some folks think it would be great to have a 20-ga first shot and a 12-ga follow-up. The problem arises when the birds get busy and you miss-load in the excitement. A 20-ga shell can get stuck in the 12-ga's forcing cone (28's and .410s pass) and a subsequent 12-ga is loaded over the stuck 20-ga with disastrous results. As a general rule, don't even carry 20-ga shells when shooting a 12-ga O/U.

Lablover, mwar410 suggests a great alternative. Seriously consider a pair of 28-ga shorties for your 12-ga O/U. You'll get a broader range of possible loadings than with the 12/20 combination. Many shooters have little or no experience with 28s, they are sweet shooters -- kick like a .410 and hit like a 20. The 28-ga tubes are stronger and you don't have to worry about any stuck 20s.

BigJimP · November 5, 2009, 03:53 PM

You won't find a set of barrels to fit the XS Special / or an XS Skeet 12ga - in a 20ga.

In theory you could get someone like Briley to fit a set of barrels for you / but cost would be prohibitive.

For casual shooting / I would just pick up a stand alone 20ga in whatever gun you like ( the XS Skeet model is my preference, expecially with an adjustable comb).

November 2, 2009, 05:09 PM	#1
lablover Junior Member Join Date: November 1, 2009 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 4	Briley tube set Briley makes 2 types of companion tube sets: A lightweight and a standard weight. I'm about to purchase a used, 5 year old Browning XS Special in 12 ga. I will purchase a 20 ga tube set for it. Having never owned an O/U, let alone one with a tube insert, what shoud I be aware of in buying the tube set? Is the lighweight tube set as strong as the standard weight? What are the tubes made of, Stainless steel or aluminum? If you were in my shoes, what would your concerns be? THANKS!! __________________ Richard Richmond, VA

November 3, 2009, 07:37 PM	#7
lablover Junior Member Join Date: November 1, 2009 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 4	Zippy13 & Big Jimp, Thank you for the though provoking comments! Somehow I knew there was more to this than meets the eye. What's a P-gun? I have little desire to shoot registered targets. All I'm trying to do here is become a better wing shot. I enjoy shooting skeet with the 20 ga semi-auto as its reasonably inexpensive to shoot & reload. When I got the idea of buying the used XS Special, naturally I thought putting 20 ga tubes in it was the way to go... essentially 2 guns in one so to speak. The XS Special weighs 8 lb 10 oz or so and Briley says the tube set will add about 14 oz to the gun. That's over 9 lbs! Perhaps the thing to do is forget the whole thing. Or, just buy a XS Skeet 20 ga O/U and shoot with that. Then just shoot my SBE a few times prior to waterfowl season and let it go at that. Where would I find a 20 ga set of barrels to fit the 12 ga XS Special frame? Any idea of the cost of that? Thanks for your detailed descriptions and thoughts. I do appreciate your concern to help me do the right thing. __________________ Richard Richmond, VA

November 3, 2009, 11:38 PM	#10
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	SAFETY NOTE When tubing a 12-ga O/U with 20's, be they full length or shorties, a safety issue comes up: DO NOT tube just one barrel. Some folks think it would be great to have a 20-ga first shot and a 12-ga follow-up. The problem arises when the birds get busy and you miss-load in the excitement. A 20-ga shell can get stuck in the 12-ga's forcing cone (28's and .410s pass) and a subsequent 12-ga is loaded over the stuck 20-ga with disastrous results. As a general rule, don't even carry 20-ga shells when shooting a 12-ga O/U. Lablover, mwar410 suggests a great alternative. Seriously consider a pair of 28-ga shorties for your 12-ga O/U. You'll get a broader range of possible loadings than with the 12/20 combination. Many shooters have little or no experience with 28s, they are sweet shooters -- kick like a .410 and hit like a 20. The 28-ga tubes are stronger and you don't have to worry about any stuck 20s.

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November 2, 2009, 05:22 PM	#2
1911 Shooter Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Posts: 124	a little advice.hit the skeet clubs, they are always plenty of great U$ed one's around with 20,28 & 410 tubes.

November 3, 2009, 03:42 AM	#3
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Like other Briley tubes, the Companions have a stainless steel chamber section and an alloy barrel. Typically, the light weight tubes use a lighter alloy for the barrel section and involve more machining. All captured extractor type tubes have a common weak point: the chamber wall is very thin in the 20-ga tubes. I had one well used 20-ga tube split under the extractor (this is not uncommon). Briley promptly replaced it at no cost. Unless you're a comp shooter, I wouldn't recommend a pair of tubes. If you just want to be able to shoot 12 and 20-ga, look for a gun with two barrels. It's much less demanding than tubes. Remember, with tubes, to switch to 20-ga you must first meticulously clean the 12-ga barrels. It's much easier and faster with a simple barrel change. Also, the general shooting public is more familiar with two barrels on one action than tubed barrels. The application of full length tube sets started with comp sheet shooters wanting a uniform gun for all four gauge events. You started with a comp 12-ga O/U and sent it off to have three pairs of tubes fitted to the gun. This worked fine -- with the weight of the tubes added, the 12-ga was smooth swinging and the kick reduced. To compensate for the lack of the tube mass when shooting in 12-ga events, a weight is often clamped to the barrel. Further developments lead to tubes that didn't require custom fitting (Briley Companion) and the carrier barrel concept. With it you start with two matched 12-ga barrels, one is for shooting and the other is significantly lightened and is used with just the tubes, the carrier barrel. It plus the tubes is the same weight as the 12-ga shooting barrel. This is an expensive set-up and is for serious comp shooters who find the standard tube set up a little too heavy and/or don't want to worry about a barrel scrubbing when switching to tubes after a 12-ga event.

November 3, 2009, 10:00 AM	#4
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I don't like the "tube" concept either - unless you go to a "carrier barrel" to shoot the tube - and like Zippy says, it adds about 10 oz of weight to the gun with the tubes and changes the swing characteristics a lot ( and to me, makes the gun nose heavy usually). The only way a "tubed" gun makes sense to me is if you shoot it exclusively with the tubes in the gun - so you shoot a 20ga in 12ga events ( and you can buy a 28ga and .410 tube set as well ) - so you would end up with 3 sets of tubes and a gun you can shoot as a 20, 28ga and .410. Like Zippy also says, you have to watch your pressures on the very thin 20ga tubes in a 12ga gun / or you will probably develop some cracking. Personally, I'm not a serious competitive shooter anymore - so it makes more sense to me, to just have 3 or 4 guns vs messing with the tube sets.

November 3, 2009, 11:37 AM	#5
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Unlike my friend BigJim, I'm shooting Skeet with a conventionally tubed O/U. For me, the added weight works out perfectly. It should be noted that the Briley tubed P-guns I campaigned with have the old school 28-inch barrels. (My "heavy gun" is Mirage based and my "light gun" is SC3 based with the tubes terminated short to accommodate the Tula choke/port system.) BigJim, on the other hand, prefers to shoot much longer barrels than I do. I can see where these could become awkward to swing if tubed. BigJim mentioned that, "I'm not a serious competitive shooter anymore - so it makes more sense to me, to just have 3 or 4 guns vs messing with the tube sets." This takes him back to the beginning where some comp shooters went to tubes because they couldn't abide shooting a different gun in each event. Another obvious problem with a tubed gun is break-down. If BigJim breaks a firing pin, he just uses a different gun until it's fixed. If you have only a tubed gun, you have to fix it on the spot, or you're a DNF in all the subsequent events. Not to start a brand loyalty argument; but, with the P-guns, I can quickly change broken firing pins and hammer springs in the field.

November 3, 2009, 07:00 PM	#6
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	like Zippy says - I do think the Tube Set idea is superior - if you go to a Carrier Barrel / so everything feels and looks the same. Even though my "4 guns " are similar / and all Browning XS Skeet models, with 30" barrels - there is a little difference in them. The 20, 28ga and .410 are all built on the 20ga frame ( but they aren't identical / although they're close ) - and the 12ga is almost 1lb heavier. I compensate with lead tape under for-end and in stock / but it isn't as good as a Carrier Barrel with a tube set. It isn't nearly a cheaper option to go with 4 guns ( I have about $10,000 tied up in the 4 XS Skeet models )... Zippy and I don't really disagree .... I just went one route / he went another - but if I was serious about competing, I would buy a Carrier Barrel and Tubes in 20, 28ga and .410 ...

November 3, 2009, 08:05 PM	#8
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	P-gun is a Perazzi - the gun of Olympic champions As to tubes, look at Briley, Kolar, Seminole, and Rhino - all make full tubes or a short version that might work for you. Personally, if it was me, and I was going to shoot skeet with all 4 gauges, the Kolar with a carrier barrel and sub tunes to go with the 12 gauge barrel would be ideal - but that is for serious competition. If all you want is to become a better wing shot, pick a good bird gun in 20 and practice, practice, practice

November 3, 2009, 09:56 PM	#9
mwar410 Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2008 Location: maine Posts: 234	if your wingshooting, you certainly don't need the extra weight. try the shorter drop-ins, they seem to pattern pretty well, and don't add any weight to the gun. I used a set in a model 21 that kicked like a mule, with the 28 ga. tubes it was fun to shoot skeet with.

November 5, 2009, 03:53 PM	#11
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	You won't find a set of barrels to fit the XS Special / or an XS Skeet 12ga - in a 20ga. In theory you could get someone like Briley to fit a set of barrels for you / but cost would be prohibitive. For casual shooting / I would just pick up a stand alone 20ga in whatever gun you like ( the XS Skeet model is my preference, expecially with an adjustable comb).