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Old March 25, 2012, 12:30 AM   #1
pspc271
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Tumbling Completed Pistol Ammo

I was watching a youtube video and that guy mentioned that after finishing loading pistol ammo your supposed to tumble it again to remove any remaining lube. I read a few thread around the internet that suggest tumbling loaded ammo could be dangerous and could break down the powder in the cartrige. What is the general opinion on this? Should I be retumbling as the last step or not?
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Old March 25, 2012, 12:55 AM   #2
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IMHO, tumble away. I haven't had a misfire in dunno how many years, actually never. Unless you have a real "tumbler" I am assuming you actually mean a vibrator.

Some of those old milsurp ammo sellers who got some dirty stuff in at times, would actually "tumble" .308 ammo in cement mixers. Never had a 'touch off' from primer geting hit, nor did powder break down.

Someone will come on here and tell you I'm nuts, I am, but have still never had an issue with this style of cleaning after loading, and won't quit the practice.
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Old March 25, 2012, 01:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Should I be retumbling as the last step or not?
Should you? That's up to you. Can you safely? Yes, tumble away. Won't hurt a thing.
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Old March 25, 2012, 02:35 AM   #4
pspc271
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Quote:
Quote:
Should I be retumbling as the last step or not?

Should you? That's up to you. Can you safely? Yes, tumble away. Won't hurt a thing.

I guess maybe the better question would be, am I more likely to encounter malfunctions if I dont tumble as the last step and what are the benifits or risks associated with it if any? Does this apply to rifle cartridges as well?
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Old March 25, 2012, 04:15 AM   #5
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Tumbling won't hurt anything, but why do you have lube on your finished pistol ammo?

Get with the times man, and buy a carbide sizing die.
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Old March 25, 2012, 06:50 AM   #6
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I do not lube any of my straight walled pistol ammo, I use carbide dies.

But I do tumble all of my finished rifle brass. Never had a problem with it blowing off in the tumbler or a misfire.
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Old March 25, 2012, 07:00 AM   #7
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I understand using somethng like One Shot case lube will make re-sizing even pistol cases easier to do. I sometimes do that too. One Shot can easily be removed with an old towel or other rag. You can put it in a vib. type tumbler for a few minutes and it will remove the lube too. I have also just shot my ammo without doing anything if using One Shot. Some of the lubes you can get do need to be removed. I prefer to just re-size then tumble them again before loading them up.

You are going to find there isn't any hard and fast rule on this question. I know I don't need to use lube on straight walled pistol ammo since I use carbide dies. I do use it from time to time. Tumbling in a vib. tumbler won't hurt anything. I did forget once to remove some I put in there for nearly 24 hours. They sure were shinny when they came out and all worked just like they should.

I forgot to mention I use corncob media.

Last edited by Misssissippi Dave; March 25, 2012 at 07:08 AM.
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Old March 25, 2012, 11:09 AM   #8
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Tumbling live ammo will knock off some of the coatings on the powder granules or flakes. And that'll change its burn characteristics. Contact SAAMI and ask them about tumbling live ammo.

There's been reports of handgun ammo carried in ammo cans that got jostled around in pickups often driven over rough terrain that had way too high of pressure when fired.

I don't tumble live ammo. Nor do I ride in a motor vehicle without wearing a seat belt. Others choose to do both. We all get to decide how close to the edge of disaster we do our stuff living our lives. Russian roulette is safe for everyone until it's prooved otherwise.

It's safer to clean the lube off sized cases before priming and charging them. Besides, it prevents getting greasy contaminants into both powder and primer.

From Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester Powder Companies when I asked them about this:
Quote:
No, it is not a good idea to tumble or vibrate your loaded ammo. If you look at powder under a microscope you would see that the normal powder granule has tiny little whiskers on it. These are a good thing as they make the powder easier to ignite. If you tumble powder, you knock these little whiskers off as well as knocking off any externally applied coatings. This can cause the burn speed to increase to a point that is dangerous when ammo is fired. In other words, it is a bad idea to tumble or vibrate ammo.
But then some readers think they know more than the powder companies.

Last edited by Bart B.; March 25, 2012 at 11:22 AM.
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Old March 25, 2012, 11:50 AM   #9
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Concur with Bart B.
Carbine or clean off lube prior. IMHO tumbling ammo is a bad idea.
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Old March 25, 2012, 04:05 PM   #10
Misssissippi Dave
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Tumbling live ammo will knock off some of the coatings on the powder granules or flakes. And that'll change its burn characteristics. Contact SAAMI and ask them about tumbling live ammo.
I'm glad I read this. Unless the rounds are loaded at the factory making the powder and then loaded as a compressed load, you will never have safe ammo. Does this mean you should never transport these type of powders either? The vibration of transporting them might make it separate and then you will either get the powder minus the coating or just the coating in some cases. Sound like very unsafe powder to use for any reason. I sure hope they don't use those types of powders for ammo someone might carry as well.

I normally only use ball powders since flake powders don't work well in my measure. At least I can know I am able to load safe ammo using this type of powder.
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Old March 25, 2012, 04:15 PM   #11
Greg Mercurio
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This has been beat to death more often than a dead horse. Some well designed experiments have been done disproving the myth about "knocking off the coatings" and "changing burn characteristics". Do some research. Don't perpetuate myths.
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Old March 25, 2012, 05:13 PM   #12
Bart B.
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Greg Mercurio, what I posted about the dangers of tumbling live ammo is not a myth. You too, should contact SAAMI and vent your emotions their way. Then repeat your actions to the powder companies. Those places are ones that may benefit from your opinions.

You sound like a life member of the F.E.S.

Mississippi Dave, there's a big difference between powder's normal handling in manufacture, packaging, transport, retailing and handloading compared to tumbling or vibrating it for an hour or two cleaning live ammo. Contact the powder companies and SAAMI to learn the difference.
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Old March 25, 2012, 06:56 PM   #13
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Greg Mercurio, what I posted about the dangers of tumbling live ammo is not a myth. You too, should contact SAAMI and vent your emotions their way. Then repeat your actions to the powder companies. Those places are ones that may benefit from your opinions.
Sorry there have been experiments done with ammo being tumbled for weeks with no adverse effects, remember SAAMI needs to keep their lawyers happy. As mentioned do some research and not perpetuate the myth.

Also, with all the shipping and jostling of ammo that the military does they have no problems.

BTW what is F.E.S.?
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Old March 25, 2012, 07:38 PM   #14
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I've been on online gun forums for about about 12 years. This topic has been around longer that and I have never seen anything definative to prove it's (tumbling live ammo) detrimental in any way. I've read no "official" report from any ammo manufacturer, powder manufacturer, or any firearm manufacturer/importer, on any forum, website, or magazine article. No real info on powder "breakdown", but a lot of good theories (and so-and-so's brother's uncle reports). Until I see something official from Winchester/Olin, Hodgon, Allient, etc., I'll say tumble away...
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Old March 25, 2012, 08:29 PM   #15
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I faintly remember somebody on this forum conducting a test where they took a batch of ammo and set some aside, then tumbled the rest for a long time, then tested it with a chrono to do a comparison. And there was no difference. I might be talking out of my flash hole, but I remember something to this effect.
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Old March 25, 2012, 08:32 PM   #16
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Also, speaking as a former grunt. We carried around ammo for weeks that got the crap beat out of it, then turned back in. Who knows how many times this process is repeated before it is actually fired.
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Old March 25, 2012, 09:16 PM   #17
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As jcwit stated, the bottom line is SAAMI is covering their six.

If so, then tell me why ammo manufacturers tumble their loaded ammo before packaging and can get away with it...

pspc271, tumble away for a few minutes with dry corn cob. I use carbide dies but still use just a touch of lube every 5th case or so. IMO, you're MUCH more prone to cause malfunction due to lube on your cases than tumbling for a short time.
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Old March 25, 2012, 10:10 PM   #18
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Long before I discovered the misinformation highway I tumbled finished ammo, still do on occasion. I did my own research & experiments and drew my own conclusions. Still makes for a lively thread. Amazing.
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Old March 25, 2012, 10:16 PM   #19
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I've been in trucks and helicopters that subject everything inside to much more vibration than my tumbler does. I wonder what Hodgdon and SAAMI have to say about transporting ammo in trucks and helos?

Its been said that helicopters can't fly. They just vibrate so much the earth rejects them.
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Old March 25, 2012, 10:26 PM   #20
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All I can say is WHY???
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Old March 25, 2012, 11:17 PM   #21
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Was waiting on this thread to digress into "why remove the lube," which I find to be a more interesting question than beating the ol dead mule of tumbling loaded ammo.

It does seem a little strange that I've yet to see the factory tests/studies which prove or disprove tumbling effects. Has the ammo industry hidden all their research into this question in hope us reloaders will blow ourselves to kingdom come? Or did they decide the issue is moot?

During taking part in the development of nationwide standards, I observed folks who tried to use information proven by studies and other people who wanted to have their opinion become part of the regulations. I'd much rather form my opinion after I see the science. I wonder if the contacted SAMMI person had science or an opinion?
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Old March 25, 2012, 11:18 PM   #22
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I am certain that cases of ammo on a semi trailer going across the country will get tumbled and vibrated more than our little tumblers will do in a day or two.
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Old March 26, 2012, 12:16 AM   #23
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If tumbling ammo was a problem every aircraft,helicopter, armored vehicle, would have to change it's ammo after each flight,or trip.It's just a myth.
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Old March 26, 2012, 02:39 PM   #24
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jcwit asks:
Quote:
BTW what is F.E.S.?
http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/i...d=48&Itemid=65
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Old March 26, 2012, 05:35 PM   #25
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I've been tumbling my loaded pistol ammo in a cheap Harbor Freight rotary tumbler for years with corn cob and a little polish. It removes the resizing marks and makes them look even brighter than just tumbling in the vibratory tumbler.
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