Do/should CCWs call the police after every incident? - Page 2

Jkwas · February 13, 2006, 06:35 PM

40 or 50 times? Do you live in Miami or Riviera Beach?

CraigJS · February 13, 2006, 08:40 PM

Big Fun your right you don't need a plan to call 911.. But try calling a lawyer with out some sort of "plan". Monthly or pay as you go... God forbid if you ever have to shoot some one or discharge your weapon, and can't reach a lawyer!!

riverrat66 · February 13, 2006, 09:51 PM

Quote:

40 or 50 times? Do you live in Miami or Riviera Beach?

Either one I think I'd have to move! You might be safer living in Beirut!

TooTall · February 14, 2006, 10:09 AM

To simplify matters, if you had a valid reason for drawing your firearm, there was PROBABLY a criminal act that prompted you to do so. If you don't report that criminal act, it will go unnoticed and the bad guy(s) might carry out a crime elsewhere.

While reporting that incident, the drawing of your weapon SHOULD be mentioned, to at least give the "appearance" of you having done what a "reasonable" person would have done in the same situation. Your firearm thwarted the criminal act, but you were STILL a "victim".

"Brandishing" laws (generally) consider the drawing of a weapon when there was no necessity or reasonableness to do so as a crime. Most state laws throw in the words "rude and/or threatening", which means that the weapon was drawn purely due to anger or to piss off someone. Add to that, if words are exchanged during the "brandishing" of a firearm, it may lead to charges of being a "hate" crime.

If you ever HAVE to draw your weapon for any valid reason, keep your words short and sweet...even "polite"! Then, when you report the inident, make sure to mention that you were "respectful" of the bad guy(s), and used the terms "Please" and "Sir".
Don't go "Dirty Harry" and recite the "I know what you're thinkin', punk!" line! It'd be better to say, "I know what you're thinkin'.....SIR!"

CyberSEAL · February 14, 2006, 04:56 PM

The exact scenario described by several people in this thread happened to me the other day. I've had my CCW for nearly 5 years and have never drawn on anyone or even come close, until about two weeks ago.

I was heading to work midday on a Sunday, on a 4 lane parkway (2 lanes in each direction). I'm approaching a slower moving van in the left lane, I go to pass her on the right, and some guy that had been maintaining his speed a few car lenghts back in the right lane, speeds up for the sole purpose of disallowing me to pass.

I made the pass anyways, which he interpreted as cutting him off I suppose. We come to a stoplight soonafter, and he hops out and starts walking up to my window. I had no time or patience for this nonsense, and I flashed my piece at him. He jumped back, nearly falling down backwards, and got back in his truck. Luckily the light turned green right after this and I sped off, taking a few backroads to get to work and making sure he made no atttempt to follow me.

---

I pondered calling the Police for all the reasons listed here. However, I know that if he called the Police, in this county, they would've told him he should not have gotten out of his vehicle like that. I opted not to call the Police and I've never heard a word about it. Don't expect to either.

riverrat66 · February 14, 2006, 06:44 PM

TooTall,
+ 1

Quote:

CyberSEAL sez:
I made the pass anyways, which he interpreted as cutting him off I suppose. We come to a stoplight soon after, and he hops out and starts walking up to my window. I had no time or patience for this nonsense, and I flashed my piece at him. He jumped back, nearly falling down backwards, and got back in his truck. Luckily the light turned green right after this and I sped off, taking a few backroads to get to work and making sure he made no attempt to follow me.

So you were able to interpret what this guy was thinking, at least you suppose. And you had no time or patience for that nonsense so you just flashed your piece at him. Did this guy threaten you with physical harm? Did he approach your car in a threating manor? Maybe he was only going to ask you for directions, unlikely but possible. He was already out of his truck so why didn't you just drive away?

How's this for a scenario, you're sitting in your car flashing your gun at this guy because he got out of his truck for whatever reason and approached your car. Now who has the advantage? You're sitting in your car and he's standing outside. All he has to do is quickly take a couple steps aside, as he pulls his gun and put two in your head then tell the cops all he wanted to do was ask for directions and you pulled a gun on him when he approached your car. Does that sound too far fetched? I don't think so especially if you were alone and he had a passenger as a witness. Hypothetically speaking that is.

My point being, was it absolutely necessary to draw your weapon and "flash" it at this guy? Granted he probably should not have gotten out of his truck under the circumstances and he really didn't want to ask for directions but all you had to do was simply was drive away, period. Then if this azzhole continued to follow you or chases you that changes the entire picture. I would then drive to the nearest police station or stop at the nearest police car. Like I said when carrying, I will do anything to avoid a confrontation.

Dust_Devil · February 14, 2006, 08:09 PM

I too was told by my CCW instructor that any time you would have to pull your gun out on somebody, no matter if you pulled the trigger or not, to always make a report to the police as quick as possible after the incident as many criminals will report you to the police for pulling a weapon on them. If you never report the incident yourself, the police may think you were hiding the fact and then believe the bad guy.

Tonyny · February 14, 2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:
CyberSEAL sez:
I made the pass anyways, which he interpreted as cutting him off I suppose. We come to a stoplight soon after, and he hops out and starts walking up to my window. I had no time or patience for this nonsense, and I flashed my piece at him. He jumped back, nearly falling down backwards, and got back in his truck. Luckily the light turned green right after this and I sped off, taking a few backroads to get to work and making sure he made no attempt to follow me.

Quote:

So you were able to interpret what this guy was thinking, at least you suppose. And you had no time or patience for that nonsense so you just flashed your piece at him. Did this guy threaten you with physical harm? Did he approach your car in a threating manor? Maybe he was only going to ask you for directions, unlikely but possible. He was already out of his truck so why didn't you just drive away?

Maybe he was gonna buy him a cup of coffee also, eh.

Maybe he didn't feel like getting broadsided by running the light. Some nutcase comes running up to my car in a case like THIS and I'm gonna let him peek at my piece also. Easier than getting a tire iron upside my head. Not evrything in LIFE is by the book...

riverrat66 · February 14, 2006, 09:40 PM

Quote:

he hops out and starts walking up to my window

"starts walking up to my window"?

Quote:

Some nutcase comes running up to my car. Easier than getting a tire iron upside my head

"running up to my car", "a tire iron upside my head". What thread are you reading? Coulda, shoulda, woulda but he didn't have the time or patience for that nonsense.

Believe me there is no love lost here for anyone with road rage. They should be removed from the road permanently. But I also feel very strongly about people going around, indiscriminately pointing guns at other people because as this gentleman so casually puts it, he didn't have the time or patience for this nonsense.

Carrying a concealed weapon is a huge responsibility but when one begins brandishing their firearm for no apparent reason other then scaring or intimidating someone, especially when the threat of deadly physical harm is non-existent, then we as gun owners are taking a giant step backward and playing into the hands of the anti-gun people.

We could debate this until the cows come home. There are a million different scenarios that we could paint, each with a different outcome. Each state has their own laws and everyone has to live with their decisions and consequences of their actions.

That's my 2 cents worth!

Enough said.

Tonyny · February 14, 2006, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Believe me there is no love lost here for anyone with road rage. They should be removed from the road permanently. But I also feel very strongly about people going around, indiscriminately pointing guns at other people because as this gentleman so casually puts it, he didn't have the time or patience for this nonsense.

Indiscriminately? Last I heard the guy CAME to him at a stop light, maybe needing directions, according to you.

Letting him peek at my gun is different than POINTING it at him. Get it straight.

Quote:

Carrying a concealed weapon is a huge responsibility but when one begins brandishing their firearm for no apparent reason other then scaring or intimidating someone, especially when the threat of deadly physical harm is non-existent, then we as gun owners are taking a giant step backward and playing into the hands of the anti-gun people.

Blah, blah, blah.....hopefully the TEXTBOOK version saves your ass some day. Me I prefer living in the REAL world. If I''m MINDING my own business and some ******* apporaches my car because he has a problem with me crossing over to "his" lane I'll choose my defenses based on his demeanor. Not YOUR take on it.

Quote:

We could debate this until the cows come home. There are a million different scenarios that we could paint, each with a different outcome. Each state has their own laws and everyone has to live with their decisions and consequences of their actions

.

And thankfully I no longer live in NY pal. We don't have to RUN from lowlifes who threaten people down here.

Quote:

Enough said.

Bingo

invention_45 · February 15, 2006, 08:18 AM

There's a really good PRACTICAL reason to not show your weapon or any sign that you have it (like just holding up a holster to scare another driver).

A road-rager is already angry. Show him evidence you have a weapon, especially show the weapon so he can say "it was black", and he'll dial 911.

He can then tell the police all manner of stories about what you did with the gun he can describe, and he can be SURE what when you are stopped, which you now might well be in these circumstances, the gun will be there.

You will then be toast.

If you don't show the gun until needed, any road-rager would be taking his chances to just make that up, risking ending up in jail for the false report.

AirForceShooter · February 15, 2006, 10:09 AM

I'm with TonyNY.
I'm from NY like him and now in Fla with a ccw.
No i'm not calling the LEO's.
If the bad guy took off he's not calling anybody. Get real. He's probably got a record and doesn't want any part of the LEO's.
If he didn't take off he's got my bullet in him anf then I'll call.

Tony; with a name like that you have to be from the Bronx or Brooklyn.

AFS

invention_45 · February 15, 2006, 10:23 AM

AFS:

In Broward County: 954 493 TIPS. It's anonymous and it's broadcast on TV every night.

You pull your gun on a BG. That works and he takes off. You use your reasoning and don't report it. BG calls crimestoppers, reports "what you did", which can be anything, and describes the gun you used to "do it". They look into it, and, sure enough, some witness saw the whole thing happen (from far enough away that all they know is you pointed a gun).

I'd report it.

AirForceShooter · February 15, 2006, 04:49 PM

your choice
But.. do you seriously believe a BG is going to call anybody???

That was my point

AFS

czc3513 · February 15, 2006, 05:19 PM

Quote:

I was heading to work midday on a Sunday, on a 4 lane parkway (2 lanes in each direction). I'm approaching a slower moving van in the left lane, I go to pass her on the right, and some guy that had been maintaining his speed a few car lenghts back in the right lane, speeds up for the sole purpose of disallowing me to pass.

I made the pass anyways, which he interpreted as cutting him off I suppose. We come to a stoplight soonafter, and he hops out and starts walking up to my window. I had no time or patience for this nonsense, and I flashed my piece at him. He jumped back, nearly falling down backwards, and got back in his truck. Luckily the light turned green right after this and I sped off, taking a few backroads to get to work and making sure he made no atttempt to follow me.

"We come to a stoplight soonafter, and he hops out and starts walking up to my window."
So he got out of his car at a stoplight?
You dont get out of your car at a stoplight to ask for directions.
What do you think he wanted to say?
Was he going to tell you that you cut him off?
Probably... But then what?
He probably wanted to argue/fight with you.
And he could have had a gun.
I would have flashed my gun too.

February 13, 2006, 06:35 PM	#26
Jkwas Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Mouth of the Rat, Florida Posts: 1,778	40 or 50 times? Do you live in Miami or Riviera Beach? __________________ I grew up in New Jersey, but later moved to Florida and made a complete recovery. Keltec: The BIC lighter of handguns http://jkwasblog.blogspot.com/

February 13, 2006, 08:40 PM	#27
CraigJS Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2005 Posts: 372	Big Fun your right you don't need a plan to call 911.. But try calling a lawyer with out some sort of "plan". Monthly or pay as you go... God forbid if you ever have to shoot some one or discharge your weapon, and can't reach a lawyer!!

February 14, 2006, 10:09 AM	#29
TooTall Member Join Date: January 22, 2006 Posts: 62	To simplify matters, if you had a valid reason for drawing your firearm, there was PROBABLY a criminal act that prompted you to do so. If you don't report that criminal act, it will go unnoticed and the bad guy(s) might carry out a crime elsewhere. While reporting that incident, the drawing of your weapon SHOULD be mentioned, to at least give the "appearance" of you having done what a "reasonable" person would have done in the same situation. Your firearm thwarted the criminal act, but you were STILL a "victim". "Brandishing" laws (generally) consider the drawing of a weapon when there was no necessity or reasonableness to do so as a crime. Most state laws throw in the words "rude and/or threatening", which means that the weapon was drawn purely due to anger or to piss off someone. Add to that, if words are exchanged during the "brandishing" of a firearm, it may lead to charges of being a "hate" crime. If you ever HAVE to draw your weapon for any valid reason, keep your words short and sweet...even "polite"! Then, when you report the inident, make sure to mention that you were "respectful" of the bad guy(s), and used the terms "Please" and "Sir". Don't go "Dirty Harry" and recite the "I know what you're thinkin', punk!" line! It'd be better to say, "I know what you're thinkin'.....SIR!"

February 14, 2006, 04:56 PM	#30
CyberSEAL Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2005 Posts: 161	The exact scenario described by several people in this thread happened to me the other day. I've had my CCW for nearly 5 years and have never drawn on anyone or even come close, until about two weeks ago. I was heading to work midday on a Sunday, on a 4 lane parkway (2 lanes in each direction). I'm approaching a slower moving van in the left lane, I go to pass her on the right, and some guy that had been maintaining his speed a few car lenghts back in the right lane, speeds up for the sole purpose of disallowing me to pass. I made the pass anyways, which he interpreted as cutting him off I suppose. We come to a stoplight soonafter, and he hops out and starts walking up to my window. I had no time or patience for this nonsense, and I flashed my piece at him. He jumped back, nearly falling down backwards, and got back in his truck. Luckily the light turned green right after this and I sped off, taking a few backroads to get to work and making sure he made no atttempt to follow me. --- I pondered calling the Police for all the reasons listed here. However, I know that if he called the Police, in this county, they would've told him he should not have gotten out of his vehicle like that. I opted not to call the Police and I've never heard a word about it. Don't expect to either.

February 14, 2006, 08:09 PM	#32
Dust_Devil Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 235	I too was told by my CCW instructor that any time you would have to pull your gun out on somebody, no matter if you pulled the trigger or not, to always make a report to the police as quick as possible after the incident as many criminals will report you to the police for pulling a weapon on them. If you never report the incident yourself, the police may think you were hiding the fact and then believe the bad guy.

February 15, 2006, 08:18 AM	#36
invention_45 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Location: Broward County Posts: 972	There's a really good PRACTICAL reason to not show your weapon or any sign that you have it (like just holding up a holster to scare another driver). A road-rager is already angry. Show him evidence you have a weapon, especially show the weapon so he can say "it was black", and he'll dial 911. He can then tell the police all manner of stories about what you did with the gun he can describe, and he can be SURE what when you are stopped, which you now might well be in these circumstances, the gun will be there. You will then be toast. If you don't show the gun until needed, any road-rager would be taking his chances to just make that up, risking ending up in jail for the false report.

February 15, 2006, 10:09 AM	#37
AirForceShooter Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Sarasota (sort of) Florida Posts: 1,296	I'm with TonyNY. I'm from NY like him and now in Fla with a ccw. No i'm not calling the LEO's. If the bad guy took off he's not calling anybody. Get real. He's probably got a record and doesn't want any part of the LEO's. If he didn't take off he's got my bullet in him anf then I'll call. Tony; with a name like that you have to be from the Bronx or Brooklyn. AFS

February 15, 2006, 10:23 AM	#38
invention_45 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Location: Broward County Posts: 972	AFS: In Broward County: 954 493 TIPS. It's anonymous and it's broadcast on TV every night. You pull your gun on a BG. That works and he takes off. You use your reasoning and don't report it. BG calls crimestoppers, reports "what you did", which can be anything, and describes the gun you used to "do it". They look into it, and, sure enough, some witness saw the whole thing happen (from far enough away that all they know is you pointed a gun). I'd report it.

February 15, 2006, 04:49 PM	#39
AirForceShooter Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Sarasota (sort of) Florida Posts: 1,296	your choice But.. do you seriously believe a BG is going to call anybody??? That was my point AFS