How much power does the POTUS really have?

Kimio · December 24, 2012, 02:37 PM

I was having this discussion with a friend of mine as I was trying to encourage him not to get discouraged by the media.

His argument that while he will continue to try and fight against what ever new legislation that the POTUS or the other infamous anti' are pushing, he asked me how do we compete against a rabidly anti gun media, a populace that will apparently never hear argument such as the one from Sturmgewhre on youtube and the very well written "essay" by Larry C. let alone a president and current administration, by his own words, doesn't appear to care about our constitution.

He drove his point stating that when Obama care was passed he did so without any representation from the republican party, and he also signed an executive order which would allow him to declare martial law during peace time which according to him would give the POTUS near dictatorship amounts of power.

I need to research and fact check some of this, but I have my doubts that the POTUS has so much power that he could easily circumvent the system as much to pass a new AWB or anything on gun control without at least some blessing from the US citizenry.

Can someone please help clarify wth my friend is actually talking about or at least point me in the right direction.

How much power does the POTUS really have in regards to creating, passing and actually enforcing new legislation especially those that pertain to civil rights and liberties?

JimDandy · December 24, 2012, 02:42 PM

As much as the people, congress, and SCOTUS allow him to have.

pax · December 24, 2012, 02:45 PM

Not enough when he's your guy. Patriot Act, anyone?

Too much when he's the other side's guy.

pax

Alabama Shooter · December 24, 2012, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Not enough when he's your guy. Patriot Act, anyone?

Too much when he's the other side's guy.

I never liked a side enough to pick one. They seem awfully much the same.

Quote:

How much power does the POTUS really have in regards to creating, passing and actually enforcing new legislation especially those that pertain to civil rights and liberties?

The Executive can write and recommend legislation but can propose nothing. The president signs, invokes veto or ignores (pocket veto) all bills that come to his desk to be signed into laws.

The executive has near crazy levels of autonomy when it comes to federal interpretation of existing laws. Overstepping becomes problematic at times.

The executive also is responsible for making sure that the laws are enforced. At one time (back when we had few laws) this was a near vacant power. In the last 150 years or so with so many laws on the books choosing which ones they will enforce and prosecute has become a Chicagoian nightmare of politics and at times corruption.

Kimio · December 24, 2012, 04:01 PM

So if I'm gathering this correctly, the POTUS really does have the power to enact some form of legislation via the executive branch (Executive orders) so long as they are based upon the enforcement of a pre-existing law? However, if the SCOTUS and so on deems that the POTUS' EO is overstepping his authority can challenge and possibly strike it down.

My friend further went on to say that the anti's apparently hold the Senate which can further push the POTUS' agenda especially in regards to something like this. He also said that the House apparently seems to be giving out a lot in terms of what Congress wants, how accurate that is I don't know yet, thus he believes they won't stand their ground in the event that a new AWB gets pushed forward or some kind of legislation that pertains to gun control.

I've repeatedly told him that both sides have their re-elections to consider in 2014, so ticking off half of America is not exactly the best way to secure another term in office. He also argued that the American populace may want change and preach about stopping any new legislation, but when it comes down to it, they won't actually do anything about it.

I would call it pessimism, but I simply don't know how to argue some of these. My basic response was that it's up to us who are passionate about this and advocates of the 2A to try and encourage folks to do something that would otherwise sit on the sidelines and doom us with inaction.

"Evil succeeds when good does nothing to stop it"

I guess his ultimate question is in his words "how do we stop an administration that doesn't appear to play by the rules and has the support of a nation, media and political parties that are ignorant or willfully ignorant of such facts?"

I honestly have no answer to this one unfortunately.

Alabama Shooter · December 24, 2012, 04:40 PM

Quote:

I guess his ultimate question is in his words "how do we stop an administration that doesn't appear to play by the rules and has the support of a nation, media and political parties that are ignorant or willfully ignorant of such facts?"

This was the same question that Democrats were asking themselves in 2005.

**Tom Servo** · December 24, 2012, 05:33 PM

Getting a bit too political, and we've got other threads on Executive Orders running

December 24, 2012, 02:37 PM	#1
Kimio Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,171	How much power does the POTUS really have? I was having this discussion with a friend of mine as I was trying to encourage him not to get discouraged by the media. His argument that while he will continue to try and fight against what ever new legislation that the POTUS or the other infamous anti' are pushing, he asked me how do we compete against a rabidly anti gun media, a populace that will apparently never hear argument such as the one from Sturmgewhre on youtube and the very well written "essay" by Larry C. let alone a president and current administration, by his own words, doesn't appear to care about our constitution. He drove his point stating that when Obama care was passed he did so without any representation from the republican party, and he also signed an executive order which would allow him to declare martial law during peace time which according to him would give the POTUS near dictatorship amounts of power. I need to research and fact check some of this, but I have my doubts that the POTUS has so much power that he could easily circumvent the system as much to pass a new AWB or anything on gun control without at least some blessing from the US citizenry. Can someone please help clarify wth my friend is actually talking about or at least point me in the right direction. How much power does the POTUS really have in regards to creating, passing and actually enforcing new legislation especially those that pertain to civil rights and liberties?

December 24, 2012, 02:45 PM	#3
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	Not enough when he's your guy. Patriot Act, anyone? Too much when he's the other side's guy. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

December 24, 2012, 05:33 PM	#7
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	Getting a bit too political, and we've got other threads on Executive Orders running __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

December 24, 2012, 02:42 PM	#2
JimDandy Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2012 Posts: 2,556	As much as the people, congress, and SCOTUS allow him to have.

December 24, 2012, 04:01 PM	#5
Kimio Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,171	So if I'm gathering this correctly, the POTUS really does have the power to enact some form of legislation via the executive branch (Executive orders) so long as they are based upon the enforcement of a pre-existing law? However, if the SCOTUS and so on deems that the POTUS' EO is overstepping his authority can challenge and possibly strike it down. My friend further went on to say that the anti's apparently hold the Senate which can further push the POTUS' agenda especially in regards to something like this. He also said that the House apparently seems to be giving out a lot in terms of what Congress wants, how accurate that is I don't know yet, thus he believes they won't stand their ground in the event that a new AWB gets pushed forward or some kind of legislation that pertains to gun control. I've repeatedly told him that both sides have their re-elections to consider in 2014, so ticking off half of America is not exactly the best way to secure another term in office. He also argued that the American populace may want change and preach about stopping any new legislation, but when it comes down to it, they won't actually do anything about it. I would call it pessimism, but I simply don't know how to argue some of these. My basic response was that it's up to us who are passionate about this and advocates of the 2A to try and encourage folks to do something that would otherwise sit on the sidelines and doom us with inaction. "Evil succeeds when good does nothing to stop it" I guess his ultimate question is in his words "how do we stop an administration that doesn't appear to play by the rules and has the support of a nation, media and political parties that are ignorant or willfully ignorant of such facts?" I honestly have no answer to this one unfortunately.