Follow Up...Crimp or No Crimp on .45 Auto

[Tony C]

Before I get started let me apologize for the lengthy question, I wanted to be very specific in my attempt to elicit your help. This follows up my first thread of questions which is here...

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=326510

I loaded my first 25 .45 Auto rounds and when I fired them this weekend about half of them didn't load from the magazine. My assumption was that I had too much "belling" of the case mouth, but everything I have read about loading .45's is that you should not crimp the mouth.

One of the posts in answer to my original thread recommended loading a dummy and testing OAL, then running them through my .45 and testing the OAL again. So, here are the results.

I loaded two dummy rounds. I used new MagTech brass and topped them off with 185 Plated SWC (Berry's). I set them at an OAL of 1.221" (my previous rounds were at 1.154")

This time I ran the crimping die down to the case mouth and backed it off only 1/2 turn, different from the last time following the instructions and backing it off 1 full turn. Both rounds loaded from the magazine fine in Springfield XD that I had troubles with on Friday, as well as my Kimber 1911. But I seemed to have developed a new problem. After running both rounds through the 1911 twice, the OAL changed, and then changed again after putting them through the XD. Here is what happened...

1911, Started at OAL of 1.221"
Round #1 = Finished 1.202"
Round #2 = Finished 1.2185"

Two more times through the XD
Round #1 = Finished 1.1935"
Round #2 = Finished 1.2105

So both bullets were seated further in the case after four times through the slides of the pistols.

Round #1 shrunk by 0.0275"
Round #2 shrunk by 0.0105"

Should I put more crimp on the round to tighten them into the case or am I doing something else wrong. I don't know where to go from here as all four of my reloading books say not to put any roll-crimp on a semi-auto round.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Tony C.
Willamette Valley, Oregon

“As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives,
And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
Even after my skin is destroyed,
Yet from my flesh I shall see God” Job 19:25-26 NASU

[shepherddogs]

45 ACP uses a taper crimp. Don't try a heavy crimp it as it will swell the OD too large to chamber.

[LHB1]

Tony,
Your question is about crimping but most of your post is about OAL. Two different items. The OAL depends on bullet length. Proper OAL is whatever feeds well and shoots well in your gun with that bullet. Crimping in .45 ACP is meant to remove belling after seating bullet. Bullet retention is accomplished by sizing the brass case in step 1 of reloading cycle. Ammo for .45 ACP in 1911's is best crimped with a taper crimp die either in combo with seating or in separate die. I have always used a combo seater/taper crimp die and have no problems with my reloads in several 1911's. My reloads are typical of those used by a number of other reloaders: 200 gr H&G #68 style LSWC bullet over 5.1 gr Win 231 with OAL of 1.240" and taper crimped to .470". This type semi-wadcutter bullet is best seated so that about 1/32" of the shoulder protrudes in front of the case mouth, which yields an OAL of about 1.240"-1.250". Optimum taper crimp is .469"-.471". Even .472" will work OK in many guns; more than that may cause problems.

[Ozzieman]

I never crimp any ACP, like shepherddogs I have taper crimps for every auto that I load, from .380 to 45 ACP.
It takes all the guess work out of reloading for autos and makes those rounds flawless. It does add another time that the rounds end up going through the press but it makes them identical and very symmetrical. The other great thing about taper crimp dies is that you can get a very tight fit between the bullet and the case which will also give you better burn of the powder since it will hold the bullet in the case that little bit longer. I don’t know if this is true or not but it could be.
Taper crimp dies are not that expensive and they are easy to use.
I have never used combo seater/taper crimp die only because they weren’t available when I purchased the set of dies that I now own (25 years ago).
I use a lead 230 GR bullet that I purchase from PENN bullets and it’s very close to the shape of the classic jacketed hard ball. I just put a loaded commercial round in the press and with the seating die, just screw the seater down until it makes contact with the top of the bullet.
This works extremely well for me and in the last 3 years that I have been using PENN bullets I have never had a single failure of any kind with over 3000 fired.
I shoot them in 3 different guns, A Kimber Royal carry, Colt light Commander and a Gold Cup.

[Ozzieman]

One other quick note, many people that I have helped over the years have one problem, they over bell the cases. I had one friend that belled the case so much that the bullet would fall half way into the case with out any pressure. When I bell the case I do just enough to allow the bullet to be started into the case with out cutting off any lead. For ACP this will extend the life of the case and make an over all tighter fit of the bullet.

[MADISON]

YES!
Several years ago I went to a gun shop and asked for a TAPER CRIMP die for my .45 ACP. He didn't have any in stock so he sold me a steel sizing die, WITHOUT THE DECAPPING ASSEMBLY. I adjusted it for crimping and it worked fine.
Get a taper crimp die.

[Cloudpeak]

Bullet setback in reloads is a function of the sizing die and/or the diameter of the expander plug. In semi autos, bullets are held in place by case tension on the bullet. In revolvers, bullets are retained by case tension and a "roll crimp" into the bullet. In semi autos, the "crimping" operation is used to remove the case mouth bell to allow reliable chambering.

I always test for setback on a new pistol. I load dummy rounds after measuring the OAL and then chamber them several times from slide lock, each time measuring the OAL. When I had a setback problem and I knew my sizing die was sizing down enough, I reduced the diameter of the expander plug. I no longer get setback in any of my pistols after 6-8 chamberings. (I'm mainly loading .452" sized 45 cal 200gr SWC's and .357" sized 9mm 105gr SWC & 124gr RN homecast lead bullets.)

Cloudpeak

[Tony C]

Thanks for your input, that info on bullet setback was what I was looking for. You mention that you "Reduced the diameter of the expander plug". How did you do that? My expander die has two plugs, one for round nose bullets and one for flat nose. I am expanding the mouth just barely enough to sit the bullet in the case before seating as it is.

Thanks again for the help,
Tony

[Cloudpeak]

Thanks for your input, that info on bullet setback was what I was looking for. You mention that you "Reduced the diameter of the expander plug". How did you do that? My expander die has two plugs, one for round nose bullets and one for flat nose. I am expanding the mouth just barely enough to sit the bullet in the case before seating as it is.

Thanks again for the help,
Tony

Tony,

I think you are referring to your bullet seating stems.

The expander plug bells the case mouth so you won't shave lead when you seat the bullet (or damage the bullet jacket). I took a measurement of the expander diameter for reference, chucked the stem of the expander in a drill press and used a "Scotchbrite" pad to reduce diameter and polish the plug. Using the S.B. (red) takes awhile, btw, but it's easier to take more material off than add it back I do a bit of polishing, take a measurement and load up a couple of dummy rounds and check for setback. If I still have setback, I do a bit more and repeat until I'm satisfied with the results.

Cloudpeak

[mstuhr]

Howdy,
A taper crimp is good. I also like the Lee factory crimp die. It has made my .45 very reliable.
Good luck
Mike