Sabot Loads

jimkim · December 17, 2008, 11:42 AM

I have some Sabots a buddy sent me. I was told to use 100 or 110gr load data. Is there a formula I can use to calculate the change in velocity? He said for best accuracy to keep it around 3100fps in my 30-30 and around 4000fps with a 30-06. I already have the load data from EABCO and JD-Components. I will mainly be loading them in my 30-30. I will be loading (22cal) cast bullets as well. These may not take 3000fps. Do any of you have an opinion on using IMR-4227 and trying to duplicate 22 Hornet loads with the cast bullets.

ballardw · December 19, 2008, 02:56 AM

Not sure about any load estimates but there shouldn't be any problem with the cast bullets at high speed because they won't be bearing on the barrel, that's what the sabot does.

If the sabot doesn't melt behind a jacketed bullet, it shouldn't with a cast bullet of the same weight.

jckeffer · December 19, 2008, 03:31 AM

Sabot Reloading Data

You can find additional sabot reloading data at http://www.eabco.com/Reports/report04.html

30.06 Springfield 55gr .224 cal softpoint

Powder Grains FPS

RX7 35-41 4280
IMR 3031* 45-51 4350 (max of 57.0gr)
H-335 46-51 4379
IMR 4064 50-56 4450+
IMR 4895* 47-53 4325
IMR 4320* 48-54 4310
H 380 49-54 4330
IMR 4350** 55-60 4325
H 4831 54-61 4300+
H 450 5-60 4280

* I’ve tried
** I like

Reloading with sabot is difficult as getting the seating/positioning of the bullet/sabot is a challenge.

jimkim · December 20, 2008, 12:17 AM

To seat the bullet in the sabot I took a deprimed case and pressed it into a seating die. I then took the web section of an old 243 case and inserted it into the shell holder. I placed the sabot on the head, put the bullet in and used the primer pocket to align and seat the bullet in the sabot. There is probably a tool that does it better. I think I might try 30gr of IMR-4350 in my 30-30. It is my favorite load under the RCBS 180gr RN. I think the slower acceleration may allow the sabot to grip the rifling without shearing. If this doesn't work I may wrap the sabot and load a patched round in a 303.

**Unclenick** · December 20, 2008, 12:31 AM

You'll find slow powders are poor performers with sabots. The lubricity of the sabot offers too little resistance to provide adequate start pressure for a slow powder to get burning well (or consistently, in the case of ball powders, especially). You want a powder that's on the fast side, or it won't perform to your expectations. Note that the peak velocity in the .30-06 loads listed by JCKeffer was achieved with IMR 4064, normally a moderate performer in that round. In the smaller .30-30 case, you will likely get peak velocity from something even faster.

jimkim · December 20, 2008, 02:41 AM

I found some data here. Thanks everyone.

http://www.beastwerks.com/products/s...0%20Winchester

jckeffer · December 20, 2008, 12:04 PM

jimkim,

E. Arthur Brown sell a tool for aligning the sabot.

http://www.eabco.com/reload02.html

jimkim · December 20, 2008, 02:53 PM

JC Was the 4350 the most accurate? Did you get a complete burn? Thanks for the link.

jckeffer · December 20, 2008, 03:09 PM

jimkim,

It is for my gun - Browning A-bolt Hunter 30.06.

jimkim · December 20, 2008, 05:31 PM

I wasnt going to just use your load. I was going to try IMR-4350 in my 30-30. The reason I asked was because I wondered if the slower powder yeilded better accuracy and why.

jckeffer · December 21, 2008, 01:15 AM

jimkim,

I really don't know precisely why I got better accuracy. I't may have been that this was the last powder I tried and just got better at consistently seating the sabot.

I initially thought that a faster powder would do better - it doesn't take much presure to push very light bullet and the plastic sabot through the barrel since there is considerably less resistence between the plastic sabot and the barrel rifling than a bullet with a copper jacket. I expected by the time the slower burning powder completely burned the sabot would be long gone - leaving much of the enegery behind. So I expected that a faster buring powder would transfer more enegery to the bullet than a slower one burning powder. It didn't seem to work that way though.

I've only fired 75-100 sabot rounds through my '06 . I only tried half of the loads above and use a chonograph only on IMR4320 and IMR 4250. My results of the two powders were so close to the above data (taken from E. A. Brown) that I just posted the published data. Quite frankly I was surprised at how close I came to the published data.

jckeffer · December 21, 2008, 01:20 AM

jimkim,

I used to know someone in Utah a number of years ago that shot Remington Accelerators in a 30-30. He said that it was reasonably accurate out to 2-300 yards (at least compared to a regular 30-30 bullet). He said he really got a kick out of shooting coyotes with it - that it had a 'devastating effect'.

jimkim · December 21, 2008, 06:14 PM

Thanks JCK these were sent to me by a good friend. All I did was mention sabots and bam they were in the mailbox a few days later. If I use them at all for anything serious it will be on the farm for coyote control. I've been using my 30-30 loaded with 100 to 130 gr bullets for this. It seems like they would be fun to shoot. I really appreciate the info fellas. Jim

December 17, 2008, 11:42 AM	#1
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: middle GA Posts: 326	Sabot Loads I have some Sabots a buddy sent me. I was told to use 100 or 110gr load data. Is there a formula I can use to calculate the change in velocity? He said for best accuracy to keep it around 3100fps in my 30-30 and around 4000fps with a 30-06. I already have the load data from EABCO and JD-Components. I will mainly be loading them in my 30-30. I will be loading (22cal) cast bullets as well. These may not take 3000fps. Do any of you have an opinion on using IMR-4227 and trying to duplicate 22 Hornet loads with the cast bullets. __________________ Jan. 4, 2007 gasoline $2.10 gal....HMMM? Last edited by jimkim; December 17, 2008 at 10:20 PM.

December 20, 2008, 12:17 AM	#4
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: middle GA Posts: 326	To seat the bullet in the sabot I took a deprimed case and pressed it into a seating die. I then took the web section of an old 243 case and inserted it into the shell holder. I placed the sabot on the head, put the bullet in and used the primer pocket to align and seat the bullet in the sabot. There is probably a tool that does it better. I think I might try 30gr of IMR-4350 in my 30-30. It is my favorite load under the RCBS 180gr RN. I think the slower acceleration may allow the sabot to grip the rifling without shearing. If this doesn't work I may wrap the sabot and load a patched round in a 303. __________________ Jan. 4, 2007 gasoline $2.10 gal....HMMM?

December 20, 2008, 12:31 AM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	You'll find slow powders are poor performers with sabots. The lubricity of the sabot offers too little resistance to provide adequate start pressure for a slow powder to get burning well (or consistently, in the case of ball powders, especially). You want a powder that's on the fast side, or it won't perform to your expectations. Note that the peak velocity in the .30-06 loads listed by JCKeffer was achieved with IMR 4064, normally a moderate performer in that round. In the smaller .30-30 case, you will likely get peak velocity from something even faster. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 20, 2008, 02:41 AM	#6
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: middle GA Posts: 326	I found some data here. Thanks everyone. http://www.beastwerks.com/products/s...0%20Winchester __________________ Jan. 4, 2007 gasoline $2.10 gal....HMMM?

December 20, 2008, 02:53 PM	#8
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: middle GA Posts: 326	JC Was the 4350 the most accurate? Did you get a complete burn? Thanks for the link. __________________ Jan. 4, 2007 gasoline $2.10 gal....HMMM?

December 19, 2008, 02:56 AM	#2
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,411	Not sure about any load estimates but there shouldn't be any problem with the cast bullets at high speed because they won't be bearing on the barrel, that's what the sabot does. If the sabot doesn't melt behind a jacketed bullet, it shouldn't with a cast bullet of the same weight.

December 19, 2008, 03:31 AM	#3
jckeffer Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2007 Posts: 185	Sabot Reloading Data You can find additional sabot reloading data at http://www.eabco.com/Reports/report04.html 30.06 Springfield 55gr .224 cal softpoint Powder Grains FPS RX7 35-41 4280 IMR 3031* 45-51 4350 (max of 57.0gr) H-335 46-51 4379 IMR 4064 50-56 4450+ IMR 4895* 47-53 4325 IMR 4320* 48-54 4310 H 380 49-54 4330 IMR 4350** 55-60 4325 H 4831 54-61 4300+ H 450 5-60 4280 * I’ve tried ** I like Reloading with sabot is difficult as getting the seating/positioning of the bullet/sabot is a challenge.

December 20, 2008, 12:04 PM	#7
jckeffer Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2007 Posts: 185	jimkim, E. Arthur Brown sell a tool for aligning the sabot. http://www.eabco.com/reload02.html

December 20, 2008, 03:09 PM	#9
jckeffer Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2007 Posts: 185	jimkim, It is for my gun - Browning A-bolt Hunter 30.06.

December 20, 2008, 05:31 PM	#10
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: middle GA Posts: 326	I wasnt going to just use your load. I was going to try IMR-4350 in my 30-30. The reason I asked was because I wondered if the slower powder yeilded better accuracy and why. __________________ Jan. 4, 2007 gasoline $2.10 gal....HMMM?

December 21, 2008, 01:15 AM	#11
jckeffer Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2007 Posts: 185	jimkim, I really don't know precisely why I got better accuracy. I't may have been that this was the last powder I tried and just got better at consistently seating the sabot. I initially thought that a faster powder would do better - it doesn't take much presure to push very light bullet and the plastic sabot through the barrel since there is considerably less resistence between the plastic sabot and the barrel rifling than a bullet with a copper jacket. I expected by the time the slower burning powder completely burned the sabot would be long gone - leaving much of the enegery behind. So I expected that a faster buring powder would transfer more enegery to the bullet than a slower one burning powder. It didn't seem to work that way though. I've only fired 75-100 sabot rounds through my '06 . I only tried half of the loads above and use a chonograph only on IMR4320 and IMR 4250. My results of the two powders were so close to the above data (taken from E. A. Brown) that I just posted the published data. Quite frankly I was surprised at how close I came to the published data.

December 21, 2008, 01:20 AM	#12
jckeffer Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2007 Posts: 185	jimkim, I used to know someone in Utah a number of years ago that shot Remington Accelerators in a 30-30. He said that it was reasonably accurate out to 2-300 yards (at least compared to a regular 30-30 bullet). He said he really got a kick out of shooting coyotes with it - that it had a 'devastating effect'.

December 21, 2008, 06:14 PM	#13
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: middle GA Posts: 326	Thanks JCK these were sent to me by a good friend. All I did was mention sabots and bam they were in the mailbox a few days later. If I use them at all for anything serious it will be on the farm for coyote control. I've been using my 30-30 loaded with 100 to 130 gr bullets for this. It seems like they would be fun to shoot. I really appreciate the info fellas. Jim __________________ Jan. 4, 2007 gasoline $2.10 gal....HMMM?