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Old July 16, 2007, 08:49 AM   #1
cdoc42
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Advice needed

I am new to in-line shooting and I bought a Thompson Center Omega 50 cal rifle. Watched the CD (the last third was distorted and non-functional). I haven't had any problems but there remains a question that keeps me unsettled.

My first shot out of a cleaned barrel seems to seat much more deeply than the second shot. I assume there is sufficient debris in the barrel to explain this, but I'm talking about 1 to 1.5 inches difference. The book remarks that there should not be any space between the powder and bullet so as to avoid a pressure increase significant to burst the barrel. Yet one should not seat the bullet so deeply as to break the powder pellets. I gather the best accuracy is from a cleaned barrel but it is impractical to clean between shots while hunting if you need and can get a second shot right away (I know, you shouldn't need a second shot....).

I sighted it in with 250 gr sabots to 1.5 inches high, dead center, at 100 yards. When I fired at 200 yards it consistently hit 4 inches to the right and dropped about 20 inches!! I expected more of a drop than I see with conventional rifles, but 20 inches seems a bit much. I was using a 100 grains charge of Triple Seven (Hodgdon) not Pyrodex. Should I push to 130 or 150 (even though recommended loads in the book are not listed)?

Any advice or suggestions?
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Old July 16, 2007, 11:23 AM   #2
Wild Bill Bucks
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260 grain sabot- 110 grains of 777- muzzle velocity around 1930 f.p.s.- sighted in 3" High at 50 yards = 5.2" high at 100 yards-4.3" high at 150 yards and dead on at 200 yards.

My load at present 240 grain Sabot- 100 grains 777- around 1900 f.p.s.

Sighted in at 2" high at 50 yards-dead on at 100- lets me shoot to 150 yards without any hold over.

Can't help you with the bullet seating, but I can tell you that pyrodex will build up quite a bit between shot #1 and shot#2, but it shouldn't be enough to cause a 1" difference in seating. 1/8 to 1/4 Max.

I can't see sighting in for a 200 yard shot when 90% of my shots come at 50 to 100 yards.

Use a spit clean between shots, even when hunting. It only takes a few seconds, and lets face it, the second shot from a muzzleloader is NEVER a quick process, and the extra time will mean a considerable difference in accuracy.

Sorry I can't be of more help.
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Old July 16, 2007, 11:37 AM   #3
cdoc42
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Thanks, Wild Bill; that's a big help.

I assume a spit clean is just that - spit?
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Old July 16, 2007, 03:50 PM   #4
armedandsafe
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Spit patch: Carry a (clean) patch tucked into your cheek for that. Not only is it handy and wet when you need it, it makes you look more like an "ol' timer" with a wad of sumpin in there.

Go to the store and pick up a little baby's suck bottle. Fill this with half'n'half Ballistol and water. Cut the "straw" of of the inside of the cap. The cap seals when you snap the outside tube closed and it is handy in your possibles bag for field or camp cleaning.

Pops
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Old July 16, 2007, 07:51 PM   #5
arcticap
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Loose 777 powder produces slightly more velocity than 777 pellets and you won't have to worry about crushing the pellets. The sabot should load deeper into the breech, and it might help to reduce any residual crude ring too. Loose 777 fffg should burn cleaner and more efficiently too.

TC has a new 777 bore cleaning solvent available that might be an idea to carry for swabbing.

Last edited by arcticap; July 17, 2007 at 01:04 AM.
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Old July 16, 2007, 11:20 PM   #6
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Dirty Barrels

777 is bad to leave a crusty ring in the barrel and that is what you are dealing with.When your rifle is clean load it and put a mark on your ramrod to go by when loading for 2nd or 3rd shots.

I tried 777 and went back to pyrodex,it ignites easier,it doesn't leave as bad of a ignition ring either.

I also started using the powerbelt bullets they are alot easier to load in a dirty barrel. You can run a borebrush inbetween shots to clean it out,if you run a dry patch it will get stuck when it hits that ignition ring.

Pyrodex and powerbelts solved all my problems.
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Old July 17, 2007, 08:02 AM   #7
cdoc42
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Thanks to all.
KAT, what you describe is the basis for my concern. I have a difficult time seating my second shot to the the predetermined mark on the ram rod. I see that it must be the ring you mentioned. If that is brushed doesn't the debris settle between the primer ignition hole and the powder? I guess it doesn't really matter if you've done it and have had no problems......
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Old July 17, 2007, 09:48 AM   #8
Wild Bill Bucks
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Don't know if anyone else has noticed, but when I switched to 777 Primers by Winchester, my crud ring problems quit. Someone told me that the crud ring is developed more by the primers than by the propellant, and it sure worked on mine.

Has anyone else tried them?
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Old July 17, 2007, 10:14 PM   #9
K.A.T.
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brushing the barrel

I allways brush the barrel out between shots at the shooting range.Just hold the rifle upside down when you pull the brush back out.It will help your accuracy.

I don't brush between shots in the woods hunting.I use a powberbelt to hunt


with,it loads easier than a sabot.Well the powerbelt is all I shoot now.

Wild Bill says the 777primers help,I guess I'll try them too.
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Old July 17, 2007, 10:36 PM   #10
cdoc42
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I just bought Pyrodex pellets and Powerbelt 245gr bullets tonight. Damn! I should have checked this thread before I went to the store. Would have grabbed some Win 777 primers........
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Old July 18, 2007, 08:56 PM   #11
cdoc42
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Alright. Here's the data. Just did it this afternoon.

Omega rifle. Pyrodex 100 grains ( 2 x 50).

Thompson Center Yellow top 250 gr ( I can't find the name): first shot 2.5" high at 100 yards, 1" right. Second shot 2" high, dead center. Group 1" center to center.

At 200yd, 3.5" high, 3/4" to the right. No big deal- maybe all me due to 7 power scope. Second shot, adjusted aim by using one-half lower vertical cross hair : 3/4 " to the right, 3/4" high (I'll take THAT hunting.)

Powerbelt 245 grains- no scope adjustment: 3" to the right, 1-1.5" high, 2 shots, 3/4 " group. At 200 yards had to hold 4" left and it hit 1-3/4" low. (Why would a lighter bullet hit low at 100 and 200 yards??)

Hornady SST 250 gr: 100 yards: 2 shots - 3" high; one 2" to the right the other 2" to the left.

Seems to me if I work on changing the scope the Powerbelts will agree with KAt's experience as they were much easier to seat. I was using Fed 209 primers and I cleaned the rifle between bullet style changes.

Interesting afternoon. Better than shopping with my wife.
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Old July 18, 2007, 11:12 PM   #12
BigV
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Check this out:
http://www.bpbullets.com/thompson%20center%20omega.html

.25 ACP casings with primers for your BP ignition source.
Lots of reasons to take a look...
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