August 9, 2009, 09:46 PM | #176 | ||
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Where do you get the idea that the fact of an assault constitutes the existence of imminent peril of death or serious bodily harm? Quote:
The fact that he has not yet been charged is irrelevant. |
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August 9, 2009, 10:16 PM | #177 | |||||
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August 9, 2009, 10:24 PM | #178 | |
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August 9, 2009, 10:25 PM | #179 |
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Pointing the gun constitutes assault in virtually every jurisdiction in the US
So, if you point a weapon at somebody, you have to have an affirmative defense.
If you can't justify the use of the weapon, it's an assault charge, so you'd better be able to justify that action. Just because the police didn't arrest the OP in this instance, doesn't mean that a DA couldn't decide to charge him later. |
August 9, 2009, 10:26 PM | #180 | ||
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August 9, 2009, 10:33 PM | #181 |
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Yes, MG got out safe... this time!
Something that hasn't been mentioned in the last 180 posts is what could have happened after MG drew his .380. What if, upon seeing a gun pointed at him, this bully had reached around and pulled out his .45? Here is MG sitting in the driver's seat with this bully standing at the door. MG has a clear COM shot with his .380. OTOH, the other guy had an easy head shot at MG through the window. I have seen a few posts here where the "Good Guy" is the first one to draw. Of course I believe they felt threatened enough to do so, but please, for the sake of your own life, remember that carrying a concealed weapon is not the sole domain of us level-headed, honest, law-abiding citizens. This guy has already proven himself to be unstable and irrational. If this other guy in the parking lot had a gun and used it, MG's widow or heirs would now own a chain of pawn shops! MG didn't get away unscathed because he was smart. He got away because he was lucky. Sooner or later, luck runs out! If you are going to draw first against someone who appears to be unarmed, you better be right! Scott
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"I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders!" Ted Nugent Last edited by scottaschultz; August 9, 2009 at 10:38 PM. |
August 9, 2009, 10:33 PM | #182 |
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I've been in a few fist fights with idiots back in younger days...
... and generally speaking, they did not result in great bodily harm to either side. Black eyes, bloody noses, cut lips, etc, yes, but no serious bodily harm and no death.
If weapons are not brought into play, it's hard to argue that you felt your life was at risk. Use of a gun to prevent a butt-whipping might be hard to justify. Depending on the degree of the OP's physical handicap, the officers could have decided the potential force disparity constituted a seriously elevated threat. However, by the OP's account, they didn't arrest the road rager, either. I'm frankly amazed that an event that led up to a firearm being pointed at a person didn't result in at least one arrest, either the road rager for posing a threat that justified a firearm presentation in SD, or the OP for pointing a firearm at a human without justification. Something here just does not compute. |
August 9, 2009, 10:52 PM | #183 | |
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noelf2 said
Quoting me:
Just because the police didn't arrest the OP in this instance, doesn't mean that a DA couldn't decide to charge him later. Quote:
Last edited by MLeake; August 9, 2009 at 10:54 PM. Reason: trouble with quote commands... |
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August 9, 2009, 10:55 PM | #184 | ||
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August 9, 2009, 10:57 PM | #185 |
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If you're going to quote people, noelf2, you should at least understand the quote
Which you either failed to comprehend, or intentionally chose to disregard.
The point was, either the OP was justified, in which case the road rager should have been arrested, or else the OP was not justified, in which case he should have been arrested. The fact that the cops made no arrests after the incident escalated to a weapon drawn and direct threat made just does not make sense. |
August 9, 2009, 11:03 PM | #186 | ||
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August 9, 2009, 11:04 PM | #187 | |
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August 9, 2009, 11:08 PM | #188 | |
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August 9, 2009, 11:27 PM | #189 | |
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Scott
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August 10, 2009, 05:55 AM | #190 |
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Nope, been here since the very beginning of this thread. The details of his gun were so irrelevant to me given his situation, that it didn't even register. Didn't (still don't) see how the caliber is important. All I remembered about that detail was "keltec". He could have a 9mm and the other guy pulls a 50GI. Irrelevant! Since his gun was already trained on the aggressor, then the aggressor would be sort of stupid to reach back and pull his gun too (well, the aggressor was kind of stupid or he wouldn't be an aggressor, I digress, all the more reason to ensure you train your gun on an aggressor before he can do harm). At that point, the aggressor must be willing to take a couple in the chest/neck/head region first. Didn't seem likely that the scenario could reach your imagined conclusion given the OPs description.
Does anyone here actually think that they'll not pull their weapon when they need it (just picture a situation that you feel you would need to pull your weapon), and would have second thoughts because of the caliber you carry versus the caliber the BG "might" be carrying (I mean, besides scotta)?
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August 10, 2009, 06:41 AM | #191 |
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I wonder.....
If we can get this thread to stretch 100 pages long......lolz
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August 10, 2009, 06:52 AM | #192 | ||
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Seems like some pepper spray would have been ideal. I don't like relying on a gun for protection in all unforeseen situations since most might not require a gun. It's as if it's the gun or nothing with some scenarios I see posted here, but I usually have a hammer/crescent wrench(yeah I'm a mechanic so it's not outside the realm of possible) etc in the car since there aren't too many intrusive laws against hammers/wrenches. Maybe an intermediate level of self-preservation might be a reasonable alternative for next time? Mace for the console or something along those lines?
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August 10, 2009, 06:56 AM | #193 |
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Even Better
Tear gas gernade out the window then roll up the window. Fox Labs makes tear gas gernades we can get from our vendor, says law enforcement use only though lol.
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August 10, 2009, 06:58 AM | #194 | |
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To me this was cold blooded murder. The AG didnt see it that way, that was Jane Brady a conservative republican. Today we have a liberal democrat named Biden in charge...... I wouldnt want to bet on the same outcome... even though the law is still the same. |
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August 10, 2009, 07:06 AM | #195 | ||
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Be sure to flip the air conditioner over to the recirculate setting.
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August 10, 2009, 08:27 AM | #196 | |
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August 10, 2009, 08:29 AM | #197 | ||||||||
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To help people like the OP, the Florida Legislature saw fit to help the invesigators and jurors make that determination when they amended the law to say that a person is presumed to have that reasonable belief if an assailant is in the process of unlawfully and forcefully breaking in to his car. You can bet your boots they wouldn't have seen the need to do so had there not been issues with people having had there cars broken into and still having trouble convincing jurors that their fear had been reasonable. Quote:
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In most states, the law and case law hold that one may not produce, exhibit in a threatening manner, point, draw, display---however they happen to phrase it--- a gun unless one is engaged in an act of lawful self defense. That certainly does not mean that one can fire if the threat dissipates. It also does not qualify as having used deadly force, in most places. People have gotten into a lot of trouble about this in the past in a lot of places--so much so that the Texas legislature amended the law to specify that pointing a gun does not constitute the use of deadly force and to permit it under some circumstances when force is justified. In Arizona, pulling a gun on someone who was actually pushing you around could, until recently, get you locked up for aggravated assault, and the legislature decided to change that. Then governor Napolitano vetoed the bill, but governor Brewer has signed it into law. __________________ |
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August 10, 2009, 08:29 AM | #198 | |
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We already know the guy is a bully. He has demonstrated that he is definitely irate and probably a wee bit unstable. Why on earth would you NOT consider him to be armed? You know what they say, "NEVER ASSUME!" Scott
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August 10, 2009, 09:12 AM | #199 | ||
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"The 28 year old burgler hands filled with a computer, turned around and our hero shot him 2x in the chest dead. When the police arrived the gent claimed he thought the boy had a gun. The police arrested him, BUT the Attorney General later declined to procede to trial and charges were dropped." Would that still be cold blooded murder? Just trying to figure out if your emotions help to shape your opinion. The AG didn't see it your way, maybe because there's more to the details than we're all privy to..? Maybe the shooter DID think he saw a gun. Jumping to conclusions without all of the facts doesn't help anyone, and opinions are just opinions. Quote:
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August 10, 2009, 09:21 AM | #200 | |
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