Adjusting dies from .357 to .38

dsv424 · February 27, 2009, 11:07 AM

I have a set of Lee Deluxe .38/.357 dies and it took me nearly 2 hours of tweeking to get them set up for a .357 lever action rifle. Now I want to start making .38 special ammo for the rifle. Does anyone have a method of just giving the expander die, seating die, and FCD a quick re-adjust for .38 special ammo then back to .357 when the need arises. Or do most of you just get two sets of dies and do it that way. I really don't want to change them if its going to be difficult to get them back to the .357 setting.

**Unclenick** · February 27, 2009, 11:28 AM

Why mess with .38 Special at all? Just load the .38 charges and bullets in .357 cases. You'll need to increase charge slightly for slower powders. Target loads with fast powders don't typically need to change at all. It's one of the few cases where comparative readings on a chronograph will tell you if the longer case has cost you any velocity and where it is safe to add powder to the longer one until its velocity matches what the .38 Special case produced.

The drawback to running .38 Special in .357 chambers is that if the bullets are lead, rather than jacketed, you get a bit of a lead ring forming in the space between where a .38 Special case ends and a .357 case ends. That has to be completely cleaned out before running .357 in the gun again or it can cause a jam or prevent the .357 case from letting go of a bullet before pressure increases significantly. This applies to revolvers, too, but you can usually feel a chambering problem in a revolver, where a rifle may force the .357 round into a lead ring without you realizing it. Lots of folks do it, but just be prepared to clean lead out well.

zxcvbob · February 27, 2009, 11:30 AM

Hornady or RCBS or somebody makes a spacer you put under your crimp die to go back and forth between .38Spl and .357Mag. It costs about $4. I was going to make one, and looking through my box of junk I found an aluminum hard drive platter spacer that was already perfect.

But if you are spending that much time adjusting your dies, you are doing something wrong. It's not that hard. You need two fired cases; one resized and one not resized. (BTW, get a locking ring with a setscrew for your seating/crimping die so you can take it out and put it back without losing the setting. The crappy Lee o-ring locknuts are OK for your sizing and neck-expanding dies)

To adjust your neck expanding die, screw it down until it is tight against the mouth of a fired (not resized) case. That's it. You may have to lower it a bit more, but probably not. (the adjustment of this die is not very critical)

To adjust your crimp die, screw it down until it is tight against the mouth of the fired and resized case. You might have to screw it down just a little more for a really tight crimp.

To adjust the bullet seater in the crimp die (that you just adjusted the crimp) screw the seater plug way down too far. Now carefully, a little at a time, seat a bullet by working the press handle partway down. When you get it right screw the seater plug way out, crimp the bullet, now screw the seater plug down until it is tight against the crimped bullet.

This whole procedure just takes a minute or two once you get used to it. HTH

mkl · February 27, 2009, 11:32 AM

Sorry to say, you did it the wrong way, unless Lee dies are somehow different from my RCBS set.

For mine, I have to set the dies up for 38 Special. Once set, they are then backed out 1/10 inch to load 357s. Since I have a single stage press, its fairly easy to find a 1/10 inch thick spacer to place under the lock ring before I tighten it down.

Again, my RCBS set is very old and perhaps Lee has come up with a way to do it easier.

Sevens · February 27, 2009, 11:34 AM

I've heard of some folks using a spacer under the die as sort of a ballpark "instant" change in settings from .38 to .357.

I simply didn't do much .357 loading or shooting and stuck to .38 rather than mess up the settings on my dies.

I finally rectified that situation by picking up an old set of .38/.357 dies at a gun show for $10. These dies are made by Lyman (All-American series) and are from 1976 or 1978. Here's the key to getting them cheap: Back in the day, there were no "carbide" or "titanium nitride" dies, so reloaders had to lube even straight-wall handgun calibers for re-sizing.

So these days, most folks wouldn't even think of buying a regular steel, non-carbide die set for a straight wall cartridge such as .38/.357. That makes these sets from 25+ years ago real steals when you find them used, or as dusty old stock in a gun store.

ONLY the sizing die is carbide -- and it's the only one that needs to be, and you can use your regular .38/.357 carbide sizing die for sizing either .38 Special or .357 Mag without any adjustment whatsoever.

So all you need is a flaring die and a bullet seat/crimp die that's adjusted for .357, and leave your original set adjusted for .38 Special. If you find an old set of dies that weren't made or sold as carbide, you should find them cheap. You won't ever use the sizing die... hang it from the mirror in your car or put it on your desk at work as a conversation piece.

As for your factory crimp... I don't have one, don't use one, don't need one. Some folks really like them, and they will certainly correct some problems, but I'd rather roll ammo that doesn't have problems that need to be corrected by a post-sizing die, so I haven't found the need to buy one in any handgun caliber.

If you'd rather simply try and do double duty with the die set you have, here's my suggestion.

Take a permanent black marker and draw a bold, solid index line on the top of your press. Anywhere, but at an angle that's easy to see where you sit or stand and work the lever. Then, draw an index line on the body of the die when it's seated properly and set up right where you want it.

When you need to adjust it for .38 Special, screw the die in further as needed, get it all adjusted perfectly for .38 Spl and draw another index line on the die body in a different color, or a dotted line, or whatever... and line up that new index line with your bold, fat index line on the top of the press.

That's the method I use when I'm using different flare adjustments for different bullet types in the same caliber. (for example, in 10mm, I flare much more when working with cast lead than I do when loading for jacketed rounds)

Sorry for the great length of my post, but I've been down this road!

wncchester · February 27, 2009, 01:33 PM

"it took me nearly 2 hours of tweeking to get them set up"

Goodness! It took me maybe 20 minutes to adjust my pistol dies the first time but now I adjust and readjust in maybe five minutes in my single stage press. Are you refering to a progressive, I hope? !!

hikingman · February 27, 2009, 02:55 PM

Found it preferable to stick with 357 magnum cases, here (revolver).

dsv424 · February 27, 2009, 04:21 PM

Seven, thanks so much for taking time and helping me out. Being a newbie I'm taking my lumps one at a time but with your help you confirm that there are good people out there.. Although it is difficult to post questions sometimes knowing you may only get derrogatory comments that you are inferior to them. And some people just take the time to tell how much better they are than you. How does that in any way help a person wanting to do it right. Not to name any specific people although if you read all the threads I have gotten back in this post only one has no advise at all in it. Except for the fact that his is bigger than mine!

PCJim · February 27, 2009, 05:25 PM

DSV, Welcome to THR. After reading thru the reply posts to your thread and then reading your post (#8), I think you misunderstood the majority of the poster's responses. Although Sevens went into the most detail, each of the other responses (except for two) did provide either an alternative suggestion or some good information on how they perform the changeover operation with their equipment. Sure, some on the board will take jabs on occasion but don't let those jabs result in a negative opinion of this board. We're all here for one reason or another, and all contribute to each others ultimate good.

I, too, shoot 38/357 and as was previously mentioned, if using lead bullets, would prefer to simply load 357 cases with 38 recipes if you have 357 cases available. It keeps from generating the lead buildup in the chamber gap created between the end of the 38 case and the end of the chamber.

All the best and again, welcome.

dsv424 · February 27, 2009, 09:49 PM

PCJim, thanks for the welcome, I really appreciate it. Unfortunately I believe I was misunderstood and to clarify I meant only one particular post, all the others were great and informative. As the old saying goes there always seems to be one in every bunch. I do apologize for displaying a negative note here because this is a great forum and I have learned a lot from a great bunch of guys here. Guess the comment just pushed me over the edge this time. Sorry about that.

highrolls · February 28, 2009, 01:00 AM

I will echo what PCJim said. You got some good responses. Sevens went into great detail, but I can see I sorta do the same he is doing with the marker pen. Since I use Dillon tool heads, the thread change versus turns in distance is available on the Dillon web site. So for me, the change is 2.3 turns, and the laundry marker technique is a good one. Also, cigarette ash is a great way to remove the marker ink if you need to change it even if its been on the metal for a long time. (Never smoke around reloading, but cigarette ash is a remarkable and fast abrasive cleaner when properly used for that.)

Unclenick's point about mixing 38's and 357's in the same chamber and "lead rings" is right on. If your shooting sessions are extensive, it can be painful to clean out. I have a slight disagreement with the suggested fix of loading 38 ballistics in the 357 mag cases. When I grab a magnum, that is what I want. No mistakes. No powder puffs there. I want the headstamp to be correct. Here is why:

This whole issue gets repeated if you load for both the 44 magnum and the 44 SW special. I really dislike the idea of 44 special loads in the 44 magnum. Again, the headstamp should be correct.

I prefer to make a practice of the die adjustments just to stay in proper form. With enough practice, it does not take much time, and if you change bullet types a lot, you are going to be doing some of that anyway. As far as the crimp goes, I always crimp. Dates back to heavy bullet days with the 454 Casull. That convinced me. It acted like a kinetic bullet puller during recoil.

wncchester · February 28, 2009, 09:32 AM

"Although it is difficult to post questions sometimes knowing you may only get derrogatory comments that you are inferior to them."

Perhaps you misunderstand. Sometimes the "comments" you dread are simply to let people know their stated problems are either unclear or uncommon. If we say what is normal, at least for us, you should gain a better grasp of what you need to strive for.

We are plain spoken men, not college trained composition writers with a PC bent. It's no more than that.

mkl · February 28, 2009, 11:36 AM

Not to hijack the thread, but:

I shoot a lot of lead 38s in my 357. Anything wrong with this cleaning method?

1. Soak a patch in cleaning solvent and wet each chamber.
2. Let sit for 10 minutes.
3. Screw a phosphor bronze cleaning brush into a short (6" or so) section of a cleaning rod.
4. Dip the brush in a jar of cleaning solvent.
5. Chuck the rod in a drill.
6. Insert the brush into the rear of the cylinder and start the drill.
7. Make four or five passes up and down the chamber with the brush spinning.
8. Wipe the chamber with a clean patch and oil.

This method seems to remove any lead build up very fast and as far as I have been able to tell over many years, does no damage at all to the cylinder chambers. Note that the brush is spinning the same way as was the finishing reamer that was used to cut the chamber originally. It seems to clean the almost microscopic imperfections left by the reamer better than a brush going in and out that runs 90 degrees to the imperfections.

dsv424 · February 28, 2009, 02:22 PM

Thanks so much for all your suggestions and advise guys. And after doing a re-read of the reloading books I have I may have assumed something that I should have clarified up front. So let me explain my dilema. I have about 700 .38 special cases and I was going to use jacketed bullets to reload them with. Is there some reason why this can't be done, after seeing a few threads about a lead ring that developes from the shorter .38 cases it appears that is not the way .38's are reloaded. Please excuse my ignorance being a newbie but I really didn't want to use lead bullets if I don't have to. All I intended to do was to find an easy way to change from .357 to .38 using the same components I used on the .357 reloads just different values(of course). The press I'm using is the Lee Classic Turret. So I guess my question now is can I use jacketed bullets for the .38's. I'm doing this for a Puma .38/.357 lever-action. Also on a side note does anyone heard when Hornady is going to start producing .357 leverevolution bullets to reload. Sorry for being so lengthy on this topic but I'm just one of those pesky newbies with alot of silly questions.

WESHOOT2 · February 28, 2009, 02:26 PM

Yes you can.

(I use about forty sets so I don't have to fuss over changes.)

dsv424 · February 28, 2009, 02:52 PM

Thanks alot Weshoot I was worried there for a sec that I could not. I assume by sets you mean pre-adjusted turret's for .38 and .357. I may just go ahead and do that, for $10 bucks for the turret and $25 for the dies it would be the easiest way.

Sevens · February 28, 2009, 05:57 PM

You can certainly use jacketed bullets for .38 Special, but I find that they are more expensive than I really care to spend. In .357 Mag, I stick to jacketed exclusively, so I can push them quickly. With .38, I'm loving lead bullets. Cheap, accurate, works well at .38 Special velocities.

The whole stigma with loading lead bullet .38 Spl and shooting lots of them through .357 Mag chambers is, IMO, very much overblown. Of course, we are talking about revolvers here, not lever action rifles, but in any case, I've been reloading .38 Special since the day I bought my S&W 686 (1989) and I've been through countless .38 Special handloads and my chambers are as good as they were when new.

I've loaded a few thousand 148 grain wadcutters, a couple thousand swaged SWC and LRN, and many more hard cast LSWC, all in .38 Special, and even a few hundred plated bullets, and all of these have been sent down range through my 686. And right now, today, any .357 Mag round, factory or handload, chambers in each of my six chambers just as it did when the revolver was box-fresh.

Is it because I probably don't put any more than 200 or 300 lead rounds through the handgun between cleaning? Is it because my 686 chambers are generous? Is there an angel on my shoulder?

This is an absolute non-issue in my world. Lead bullet .38 Special reloads do NOT give me any grief in my L-frame Smith & Wesson, and never have. Not once, not ever, not in more than 20,000 rounds.

No problem admitting that my experience is with ONE .357 Magnum revolver and not a bunch of them. Perhaps this is trouble for others? I don't know. It always comes across to me as internet lore and scare tactics. I clean my guns when I come home from the range. In 20+ years, no .357 Magnum has ever resisted chambering in any of the 6 on my revolver.

levrluvr · February 28, 2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

I assume by sets you mean pre-adjusted turret's for .38 and .357. I may just go ahead and do that, for $10 bucks for the turret and $25 for the dies it would be the easiest way.

I wish you had stated you had the turret press earlier- that is what I would have suggested since it's exactly what I did. Cheap, effective, and saves time.

zxcvbob · February 28, 2009, 06:50 PM

At the pistol range last summer I was shooting my .357 SAA and another shooter had a Ruger double-action .357 and was shooting .38's in it. He wanted to try my ammo in his gun because all he'd ever shot in it was .38's. The cylinder wouldn't close. Later I figured out that it was the dreaded lead (or carbon) ring at the end of the chamber.

I usually shoot .38 Special +P's in my .357 because I have so much .38 brass and not much .357 brass. I've never had a problem shooting .357's after .38's. I don't clean my guns that often, but I do clean them occasionally.

I'll bet someone could make a little reamer out of a piece of .357 Maximum brass just for scrubbing the end of the cylinder... Like I said, I've never had a problem with it after hundreds of rounds of .38 Specials but I have seen it once

dsv424 · February 28, 2009, 07:26 PM

Well guys, I sure have learned alot on this topic just from this post and I thank all of you for all your help. My fault for not informing you all of the press I was using. And Seven I appreciate your extensive knowledge on this issue. I should have explained my reasoning earlier. I simply have alot more .38's than .357's and wanted a similar reload set up for both using jacketed bullets. Just got distracted for a moment and vented when I should have stuck with the topic at hand. Need to start ignoring distractions.

February 27, 2009, 11:07 AM	#1
dsv424 Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2008 Location: Dallas, Tx. Posts: 266	Adjusting dies from .357 to .38 I have a set of Lee Deluxe .38/.357 dies and it took me nearly 2 hours of tweeking to get them set up for a .357 lever action rifle. Now I want to start making .38 special ammo for the rifle. Does anyone have a method of just giving the expander die, seating die, and FCD a quick re-adjust for .38 special ammo then back to .357 when the need arises. Or do most of you just get two sets of dies and do it that way. I really don't want to change them if its going to be difficult to get them back to the .357 setting.

February 27, 2009, 11:28 AM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Why mess with .38 Special at all? Just load the .38 charges and bullets in .357 cases. You'll need to increase charge slightly for slower powders. Target loads with fast powders don't typically need to change at all. It's one of the few cases where comparative readings on a chronograph will tell you if the longer case has cost you any velocity and where it is safe to add powder to the longer one until its velocity matches what the .38 Special case produced. The drawback to running .38 Special in .357 chambers is that if the bullets are lead, rather than jacketed, you get a bit of a lead ring forming in the space between where a .38 Special case ends and a .357 case ends. That has to be completely cleaned out before running .357 in the gun again or it can cause a jam or prevent the .357 case from letting go of a bullet before pressure increases significantly. This applies to revolvers, too, but you can usually feel a chambering problem in a revolver, where a rifle may force the .357 round into a lead ring without you realizing it. Lots of folks do it, but just be prepared to clean lead out well. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 27, 2009, 11:30 AM	#3
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Hornady or RCBS or somebody makes a spacer you put under your crimp die to go back and forth between .38Spl and .357Mag. It costs about $4. I was going to make one, and looking through my box of junk I found an aluminum hard drive platter spacer that was already perfect. But if you are spending that much time adjusting your dies, you are doing something wrong. It's not that hard. You need two fired cases; one resized and one not resized. (BTW, get a locking ring with a setscrew for your seating/crimping die so you can take it out and put it back without losing the setting. The crappy Lee o-ring locknuts are OK for your sizing and neck-expanding dies) To adjust your neck expanding die, screw it down until it is tight against the mouth of a fired (not resized) case. That's it. You may have to lower it a bit more, but probably not. (the adjustment of this die is not very critical) To adjust your crimp die, screw it down until it is tight against the mouth of the fired and resized case. You might have to screw it down just a little more for a really tight crimp. To adjust the bullet seater in the crimp die (that you just adjusted the crimp) screw the seater plug way down too far. Now carefully, a little at a time, seat a bullet by working the press handle partway down. When you get it right screw the seater plug way out, crimp the bullet, now screw the seater plug down until it is tight against the crimped bullet. This whole procedure just takes a minute or two once you get used to it. HTH __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth Last edited by zxcvbob; February 27, 2009 at 11:16 PM.

February 27, 2009, 11:34 AM	#5
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I've heard of some folks using a spacer under the die as sort of a ballpark "instant" change in settings from .38 to .357. I simply didn't do much .357 loading or shooting and stuck to .38 rather than mess up the settings on my dies. I finally rectified that situation by picking up an old set of .38/.357 dies at a gun show for $10. These dies are made by Lyman (All-American series) and are from 1976 or 1978. Here's the key to getting them cheap: Back in the day, there were no "carbide" or "titanium nitride" dies, so reloaders had to lube even straight-wall handgun calibers for re-sizing. So these days, most folks wouldn't even think of buying a regular steel, non-carbide die set for a straight wall cartridge such as .38/.357. That makes these sets from 25+ years ago real steals when you find them used, or as dusty old stock in a gun store. ONLY the sizing die is carbide -- and it's the only one that needs to be, and you can use your regular .38/.357 carbide sizing die for sizing either .38 Special or .357 Mag without any adjustment whatsoever. So all you need is a flaring die and a bullet seat/crimp die that's adjusted for .357, and leave your original set adjusted for .38 Special. If you find an old set of dies that weren't made or sold as carbide, you should find them cheap. You won't ever use the sizing die... hang it from the mirror in your car or put it on your desk at work as a conversation piece. As for your factory crimp... I don't have one, don't use one, don't need one. Some folks really like them, and they will certainly correct some problems, but I'd rather roll ammo that doesn't have problems that need to be corrected by a post-sizing die, so I haven't found the need to buy one in any handgun caliber. If you'd rather simply try and do double duty with the die set you have, here's my suggestion. Take a permanent black marker and draw a bold, solid index line on the top of your press. Anywhere, but at an angle that's easy to see where you sit or stand and work the lever. Then, draw an index line on the body of the die when it's seated properly and set up right where you want it. When you need to adjust it for .38 Special, screw the die in further as needed, get it all adjusted perfectly for .38 Spl and draw another index line on the die body in a different color, or a dotted line, or whatever... and line up that new index line with your bold, fat index line on the top of the press. That's the method I use when I'm using different flare adjustments for different bullet types in the same caliber. (for example, in 10mm, I flare much more when working with cast lead than I do when loading for jacketed rounds) Sorry for the great length of my post, but I've been down this road! __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 28, 2009, 11:36 AM	#13
mkl Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Location: DFW area, Texas Posts: 494	Lead Rings Not to hijack the thread, but: I shoot a lot of lead 38s in my 357. Anything wrong with this cleaning method? 1. Soak a patch in cleaning solvent and wet each chamber. 2. Let sit for 10 minutes. 3. Screw a phosphor bronze cleaning brush into a short (6" or so) section of a cleaning rod. 4. Dip the brush in a jar of cleaning solvent. 5. Chuck the rod in a drill. 6. Insert the brush into the rear of the cylinder and start the drill. 7. Make four or five passes up and down the chamber with the brush spinning. 8. Wipe the chamber with a clean patch and oil. This method seems to remove any lead build up very fast and as far as I have been able to tell over many years, does no damage at all to the cylinder chambers. Note that the brush is spinning the same way as was the finishing reamer that was used to cut the chamber originally. It seems to clean the almost microscopic imperfections left by the reamer better than a brush going in and out that runs 90 degrees to the imperfections.

February 27, 2009, 11:32 AM	#4
mkl Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Location: DFW area, Texas Posts: 494	Sorry to say, you did it the wrong way, unless Lee dies are somehow different from my RCBS set. For mine, I have to set the dies up for 38 Special. Once set, they are then backed out 1/10 inch to load 357s. Since I have a single stage press, its fairly easy to find a 1/10 inch thick spacer to place under the lock ring before I tighten it down. Again, my RCBS set is very old and perhaps Lee has come up with a way to do it easier.

February 27, 2009, 01:33 PM	#6
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"it took me nearly 2 hours of tweeking to get them set up" Goodness! It took me maybe 20 minutes to adjust my pistol dies the first time but now I adjust and readjust in maybe five minutes in my single stage press. Are you refering to a progressive, I hope? !!

February 27, 2009, 02:55 PM	#7
hikingman Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2004 Location: Alabama Posts: 301	Found it preferable to stick with 357 magnum cases, here (revolver).

February 27, 2009, 04:21 PM	#8
dsv424 Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2008 Location: Dallas, Tx. Posts: 266	Seven, thanks so much for taking time and helping me out. Being a newbie I'm taking my lumps one at a time but with your help you confirm that there are good people out there.. Although it is difficult to post questions sometimes knowing you may only get derrogatory comments that you are inferior to them. And some people just take the time to tell how much better they are than you. How does that in any way help a person wanting to do it right. Not to name any specific people although if you read all the threads I have gotten back in this post only one has no advise at all in it. Except for the fact that his is bigger than mine!

February 27, 2009, 05:25 PM	#9
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	DSV, Welcome to THR. After reading thru the reply posts to your thread and then reading your post (#8), I think you misunderstood the majority of the poster's responses. Although Sevens went into the most detail, each of the other responses (except for two) did provide either an alternative suggestion or some good information on how they perform the changeover operation with their equipment. Sure, some on the board will take jabs on occasion but don't let those jabs result in a negative opinion of this board. We're all here for one reason or another, and all contribute to each others ultimate good. I, too, shoot 38/357 and as was previously mentioned, if using lead bullets, would prefer to simply load 357 cases with 38 recipes if you have 357 cases available. It keeps from generating the lead buildup in the chamber gap created between the end of the 38 case and the end of the chamber. All the best and again, welcome.

February 27, 2009, 09:49 PM	#10
dsv424 Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2008 Location: Dallas, Tx. Posts: 266	PCJim, thanks for the welcome, I really appreciate it. Unfortunately I believe I was misunderstood and to clarify I meant only one particular post, all the others were great and informative. As the old saying goes there always seems to be one in every bunch. I do apologize for displaying a negative note here because this is a great forum and I have learned a lot from a great bunch of guys here. Guess the comment just pushed me over the edge this time. Sorry about that.

February 28, 2009, 01:00 AM	#11
highrolls Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: already given Posts: 115	I will echo what PCJim said. You got some good responses. Sevens went into great detail, but I can see I sorta do the same he is doing with the marker pen. Since I use Dillon tool heads, the thread change versus turns in distance is available on the Dillon web site. So for me, the change is 2.3 turns, and the laundry marker technique is a good one. Also, cigarette ash is a great way to remove the marker ink if you need to change it even if its been on the metal for a long time. (Never smoke around reloading, but cigarette ash is a remarkable and fast abrasive cleaner when properly used for that.) Unclenick's point about mixing 38's and 357's in the same chamber and "lead rings" is right on. If your shooting sessions are extensive, it can be painful to clean out. I have a slight disagreement with the suggested fix of loading 38 ballistics in the 357 mag cases. When I grab a magnum, that is what I want. No mistakes. No powder puffs there. I want the headstamp to be correct. Here is why: This whole issue gets repeated if you load for both the 44 magnum and the 44 SW special. I really dislike the idea of 44 special loads in the 44 magnum. Again, the headstamp should be correct. I prefer to make a practice of the die adjustments just to stay in proper form. With enough practice, it does not take much time, and if you change bullet types a lot, you are going to be doing some of that anyway. As far as the crimp goes, I always crimp. Dates back to heavy bullet days with the 454 Casull. That convinced me. It acted like a kinetic bullet puller during recoil.

February 28, 2009, 09:32 AM	#12
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"Although it is difficult to post questions sometimes knowing you may only get derrogatory comments that you are inferior to them." Perhaps you misunderstand. Sometimes the "comments" you dread are simply to let people know their stated problems are either unclear or uncommon. If we say what is normal, at least for us, you should gain a better grasp of what you need to strive for. We are plain spoken men, not college trained composition writers with a PC bent. It's no more than that.

February 28, 2009, 02:22 PM	#14
dsv424 Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2008 Location: Dallas, Tx. Posts: 266	Thanks so much for all your suggestions and advise guys. And after doing a re-read of the reloading books I have I may have assumed something that I should have clarified up front. So let me explain my dilema. I have about 700 .38 special cases and I was going to use jacketed bullets to reload them with. Is there some reason why this can't be done, after seeing a few threads about a lead ring that developes from the shorter .38 cases it appears that is not the way .38's are reloaded. Please excuse my ignorance being a newbie but I really didn't want to use lead bullets if I don't have to. All I intended to do was to find an easy way to change from .357 to .38 using the same components I used on the .357 reloads just different values(of course). The press I'm using is the Lee Classic Turret. So I guess my question now is can I use jacketed bullets for the .38's. I'm doing this for a Puma .38/.357 lever-action. Also on a side note does anyone heard when Hornady is going to start producing .357 leverevolution bullets to reload. Sorry for being so lengthy on this topic but I'm just one of those pesky newbies with alot of silly questions.

February 28, 2009, 02:26 PM	#15
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Yes you can. (I use about forty sets so I don't have to fuss over changes.) __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

February 28, 2009, 02:52 PM	#16
dsv424 Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2008 Location: Dallas, Tx. Posts: 266	Thanks alot Weshoot I was worried there for a sec that I could not. I assume by sets you mean pre-adjusted turret's for .38 and .357. I may just go ahead and do that, for $10 bucks for the turret and $25 for the dies it would be the easiest way.

February 28, 2009, 05:57 PM	#17
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	You can certainly use jacketed bullets for .38 Special, but I find that they are more expensive than I really care to spend. In .357 Mag, I stick to jacketed exclusively, so I can push them quickly. With .38, I'm loving lead bullets. Cheap, accurate, works well at .38 Special velocities. The whole stigma with loading lead bullet .38 Spl and shooting lots of them through .357 Mag chambers is, IMO, very much overblown. Of course, we are talking about revolvers here, not lever action rifles, but in any case, I've been reloading .38 Special since the day I bought my S&W 686 (1989) and I've been through countless .38 Special handloads and my chambers are as good as they were when new. I've loaded a few thousand 148 grain wadcutters, a couple thousand swaged SWC and LRN, and many more hard cast LSWC, all in .38 Special, and even a few hundred plated bullets, and all of these have been sent down range through my 686. And right now, today, any .357 Mag round, factory or handload, chambers in each of my six chambers just as it did when the revolver was box-fresh. Is it because I probably don't put any more than 200 or 300 lead rounds through the handgun between cleaning? Is it because my 686 chambers are generous? Is there an angel on my shoulder? This is an absolute non-issue in my world. Lead bullet .38 Special reloads do NOT give me any grief in my L-frame Smith & Wesson, and never have. Not once, not ever, not in more than 20,000 rounds. No problem admitting that my experience is with ONE .357 Magnum revolver and not a bunch of them. Perhaps this is trouble for others? I don't know. It always comes across to me as internet lore and scare tactics. I clean my guns when I come home from the range. In 20+ years, no .357 Magnum has ever resisted chambering in any of the 6 on my revolver. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 28, 2009, 06:50 PM	#19
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	At the pistol range last summer I was shooting my .357 SAA and another shooter had a Ruger double-action .357 and was shooting .38's in it. He wanted to try my ammo in his gun because all he'd ever shot in it was .38's. The cylinder wouldn't close. Later I figured out that it was the dreaded lead (or carbon) ring at the end of the chamber. I usually shoot .38 Special +P's in my .357 because I have so much .38 brass and not much .357 brass. I've never had a problem shooting .357's after .38's. I don't clean my guns that often, but I do clean them occasionally. I'll bet someone could make a little reamer out of a piece of .357 Maximum brass just for scrubbing the end of the cylinder... Like I said, I've never had a problem with it after hundreds of rounds of .38 Specials but I have seen it once __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

February 28, 2009, 07:26 PM	#20
dsv424 Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2008 Location: Dallas, Tx. Posts: 266	Well guys, I sure have learned alot on this topic just from this post and I thank all of you for all your help. My fault for not informing you all of the press I was using. And Seven I appreciate your extensive knowledge on this issue. I should have explained my reasoning earlier. I simply have alot more .38's than .357's and wanted a similar reload set up for both using jacketed bullets. Just got distracted for a moment and vented when I should have stuck with the topic at hand. Need to start ignoring distractions.