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Old May 21, 2016, 12:16 PM   #26
RadekSkylark
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I have a H&K USP blank pistol copy laying around and today I tried to conceal it in my typical everyday outfit (which is basically pants + long sleeved casual dress shirt which I wear tucked) as in an appendix IWB carry method (I don't have a holster for it - just put it behind my belt to and tucked shirt around to see if it would print). That gun is pretty much the same size as a Glock 19 (only 1/8" higher at the grip) and unfortunately I understood that I won't be able to comfortably conceal it (or any other same size handgun for that matter). Maybe holsters help a bit, but the main problem was that I couldn't really sit down - it would stick in my groin area and in my stomach. Also, the end of the grip did print a bit, although not much - could possibly live with that. Though the gun is large enough and I couldn't really conceal it in any other way than carrying in an appendix IWB holster. I have a shoulder holster for that blank pistol and that gun was still too big to conceal so that it wouldn't print in a suit type jacket which I could add to my wardrobe. Also tried to place it on my hip IWB and it also was too big for that - grip was printing a lot. Between I'm 5'10", 155-160lb so I'm not the biggest guy, which might explain why this size of pistol could be a problem to conceal especially in an office style tucked outfit.

So basically this cuts my options down to:
Pistols:
1) Makarov = 80-120$ (many used in good condition - one mag - probably will be able to find extra mags locally);
2) SigSauer P230 = 195-345$ (used in good condition. Gun for 345$ being as new with two mags, two other cheaper options with one mag - maybe will need to order extra mags from US);
3) SigSauer P232 = 345$ (used in good condition - one mag - probably will need to order extra mags from US);
4) Beretta 84F = 345-460$ (used in good condition - one mag - probably will need to order extra mags from US);
5) Beretta 85F = 460$ (used in good condition - two mags);
6) Glock 26 = 460$ (used in good condition - one mag - probably will be able to find extra mags locally).
Revolvers (I'm pretty sure I'll have to order holsters for either of these revolvers from US as there are only few options available locally):
1) S&W (probably model 640 - 5 rounds, .357 Magnum, with enclosed hammer) = 400$ (used in good condition - most likely will need to order speedloaders from US);
2) Taurus 85 = 140$ (used in good condition - will need to order speedloaders from US);
3) Other previously mentioned Taurus and Rossi models (will need to order speedloaders from US).

So basically if I'll decide on a revolver I will go for that S&W as it is the only quality peace I can get for a reasonable price, also I should be able to conceal it the best as it has an enclosed hammer. If it'll be sold already I think that my second best bet would be a brand new Taurus or other Taurus in good condition (probably the best is to buy the newest model available - or maybe the oldest one?).

If I'll decide on semi-auto pistol it seems that I should basically decide between Makarov and a Glock 26, because if I'm about to spend 230$+ (which is the price of 2nd cheapest of 3 available P230's) for a handgun my best choice would be a Glock 26 (not the Sig P230, P232 or any of the Beretta's) mostly because it's power, capacity, and size/weight (and other Glock system related features). If I'm going to spend less than 230$ for a semi-auto it basically is a choice between Makarov and a Sig P230, in which case I'm pretty sure I'll go with the Makarov, as it is cheaper, it is pretty much indestructible and I'll have a lot of parts and ammo available locally (including mags) + it has a slide catch/release. I have to say though I really did like those Beretta's - though it wouldn't be my best choice to spend 345$+ for a Beretta 84 or 85 instead of 80-100$ for a Makarov - or would it?

Those are my latest thoughts on my options which are mainly based of you're advice guys. I think I will have to go with a revolver at the end though... Although I would like to hear some last comments on my thoughts presented in this post - thanks!

P.S. Also one thing I didn't mention before - we need to do 3 ballistics shots in police every 5 years so they have bullets with rifling impression patterns from all handguns - this costs 90$ (every 5 years). So many handguns mean a lot of money on these ballistics tests unfortunately. I think I could consider two handguns though - the one I buy now and another after some time (if I'll buy a revolver I would buy another semi-auto pistol later).

Last edited by RadekSkylark; May 21, 2016 at 04:52 PM.
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Old May 21, 2016, 01:18 PM   #27
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I would stay away from Taurus revolvers. While they work, quality control is at issue and they are troublesome to work on. Even if you have a "lifetime" warranty, you might find yourself encountering difficulties in getting them to honor it. I think there can be a cottage industry for Taurus hammer block safetys as they tend to break. If you go with a revolver, go with S&W or Ruger. They're better made than any Taurus and S&W's lockwork is superior. I don't care for Rossi either.

As for any sidearm, look for one that fits your hand and if you're married, fits the hand of your wife. Why? What if you're sick and she has to protect you and the children? You want her to be comfortable and confident in using it. Don't overlook the older Browning P-35 Hi-Power or the CZ-75. Both are very comfortable for small handed people. Additionally, there are 22 LR conversion kits for both. I don't know if Latvia has a 22 LR shortage like we do here in the United States, but if not, it's well worth having for inexepensive practice.

Whatever you choose, practice, practice, practice. Get to know it.
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Old May 22, 2016, 02:51 PM   #28
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Appendix carry doesn't appeal to me, either. I carry just behind my strong-side hip, about 3:30 or 4:00.

I really like my G26, but 9x19 is way easier to find around here than 9x18. The $300 difference between the G26 and the Mak would buy a lot of ammo, but the G26 is a great gun if that is what you want.

I have to add, I have come to think of guns as long-term purchases, too, so I buy what I want. They are way cheaper than, say, cars, and last far longer. I just don't settle any more. Get what you really like.
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Old May 26, 2016, 08:10 PM   #29
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Hallo again guys.

After assessing all the information provided by you and also that found on the internet researching my questions I've made a set of pros for semi-auto pistols versus revolvers (pros for one are cons for the other) as for a CCW here in Latvia. I've understood that first I need to make a clear decision on platform I want to go with and only then I'll choose the best fit handgun for my own purposes based on your advice etc.

Here is my list of the pros for both pistols and revolver in general circumstances, that is, when both hand are available for operation of handgun:
Pistol pros:
1) Higher capacity than that of a snub nose revolver (which is what I would possibly carry if I'll go with a revolver) - minimum for pistols in my options list is 7 rounds;
2) Possibility of me reloading a semi-auto pistol in a middle of gunfight or any other attack is way higher that for a revolver + reloading a semi-auto pistol will generally be faster;
3) Comparing to a snub nose revolver (which is what I would possibly carry if I'll go with a revolver) I should be able to get off faster shots with more accuracy;
4) If I'll buy a pistol with external safety then I'll have to carry the gun with it enabled, which will serve me good if in any case my handgun is taken from me giving me few seconds to try and take it back (attacker possibly won't be able to disable the safety fast enough to use the gun against me);
5) If I'm sure that I'll lose my handgun in a hand-to-hand combat or whatever there is a possibility for me to quickly drop the magazine and maybe kick it away so that my attacker cannot shoot me;
6) Most of the typical malfunctions can be cleared relatively fast;
7) Ammo (either .380ACP, 9x18 or 9x19) costs only around 60-75% of what costs .38 Special which is what I would possibly carry if I'll go with a revolver);
8) As my budget for practicing with real ammo is quite limited for every month (from around 50 round of .38 Special to 95 of 9x18 or 9x19) I could possibly supplement my training with airgun training (would aid my skill development anyway).
Revolver pros:
1) It is ready to shoot as soon as I draw it (round is in chamber);
2) Possibly it would be easier to draw a revolver with a good grip from many awkward positions (like being on ground or any other awkward position);
3) I should be able to fire a revolver continuously in a situation where my revolver is in direct contact with attackers body (semi-auto pistol could jam after first shot);
4) Possibility of little malfunctions is probably smaller that for semi-auto pistols (like malfunction to feed, extract, etc).

Here is my list of the pros for both pistols and revolver in circumstances where only one hand for operation of handgun is available:
Pistol pros:
1) Possibility of me reloading a pistol with one hand in any situation is higher than that of reloading a revolver;
2) In general I should be able to make better one handed shots with a semi-auto pistols than a revolver;
3) If I would get a malfunction it would be more probable to sort it out with one hand only on a semi-auto pistol compared to a revolver.
Revolver pros:
1) Again, it is ready to shoot as soon as I draw it (instead a pistols would need to be racked which is extra difficult for one handed operation of a handgun);
2) In any case it should be easier to draw a revolver in any situation with one hand only compared to a pistol.

Just to add some additional info, I really think that the possibility of me actually needing a handgun for self defense here in Latvia is lower than that for you living in US. Also, I suspect that the most likely encounter in a self defense situation could be a 1 on 1 situation with an attacker somewhere on a street or something. Also we typically don't have terrorist attacks, mass shootings or home invasions for that matter (although later might happen occasionally). So in general I don't think that it is likely that I would ever encounter more than 3 attackers in any possible shooting situation.

Also I've done some ballistics calculations which are given in the book "Quantitative Ammunition Selection" and I've come to a conclusion that .380ACP and 9x18 in FMJ would be my best choice if over-penetration is a serious problem. My calculations show that .380ACP and 9x18 FMJ bullet would over-penetrate (in summer conditions with a slim T-shirt as an extra barrier) and would possibly fully penetrate the second body (thickness of bodies assumed - 7" - average 5'10" guy in Latvia) and in worst case would exit the second body with a velocity that would not be enough to penetrate another humans skin (in a winter environment it could be possible that the bullet would not exit the clothes of the attacker and thus would not over-penetrate). The .380ACP and 9x18 FMJ would produce 75% of the permanent wound cavity mass of 9x19 FMJ bullet (as I understand it basically would produce 75% of the damage that 9x19 bullet would do). Also, the .380ACP and 9x18 would only cause damage to the second body penetrated of the magnitude of 75% of what would be caused to the first body penetrated (the attacker) instead of 64-78% for 9x19, .38Spl and .357Mag. 9x19 FMJ and .38Spl FMJ available to me would have pretty much the same terminal ballistics performance, except that 9x19 FMJ round would have higher possibility to penetrate the skin of the 3rd body (it would only penetrate something like 2" - could do a lot of harm, though).

Just to remind of the local laws:
- One needs to carry a handgun without a round in the chamber with enabled external safety (if gun has one) and with hammer at rest. This means that I'll need to rack the slide of the pistol to set it up for shooting if needed;
- One needs to carry not more than two full magazines of ammo, that is, on in the handgun and another in the holster (so for a 5 shot revolver a total of 10 rounds);
- One is allowed to use only FMJ rounds;
- One carries only calibers not larger that 9mm in the diameter (basically options are limited to .380 ACP, 9x18 Makarov, 9x19 Parabellum, .38 Special and .357 Magnum);
- Law states: "one should not fire a handgun if one cannot guarantee the safety of those who are not intended to be shot" - this implies the consequences of a bullet that would over-penetrate the attacker.

I have to admit that I really didn't thought that there is so much to go in a decision of what platform/handgun to buy for self defense use - the matter really overwhelmed me - this is why I'm really thankful for all or your help.

I hope you'll be able to give some last advice on what platform (semi-auto pistol or revolver) should I choose for my CCW.

Thanks to everyone - you've all helped me tremendously!

Last edited by RadekSkylark; May 27, 2016 at 01:30 AM.
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Old May 26, 2016, 11:28 PM   #30
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You say: " remind of the local laws: One needs to carry a handgun without a round in the chamber with enabled external safety (if gun has one) and with hammer at rest"

How does that apply to the revolver? If you are allowed to carry the 640 "normally", that right there is enough to disqualify carrying a semiautomatic for me. Everything else is just overthinking.
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Old May 27, 2016, 01:33 AM   #31
RadekSkylark
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Quote:
You say: " remind of the local laws: One needs to carry a handgun without a round in the chamber with enabled external safety (if gun has one) and with hammer at rest"

How does that apply to the revolver? If you are allowed to carry the 640 "normally", that right there is enough to disqualify carrying a semiautomatic for me. Everything else is just overthinking.
That does not apply to a DA revolver - double standards there... That is the only argument why I'm having trouble deciding which platform I want to go with. If I could carry a round in a chamber I would definitely go with a semi-auto pistol, as from my pros list it is obvious (at least it seems to me) that in general semi-auto pistol would serve me better judging from an overall performance.

Thanks for advice!
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Old May 28, 2016, 02:33 PM   #32
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Buying my first handgun - help needed!

Your best buy is one that feels good for YOU on the range. Talk to friends, but do not go by such advise until you shoot the suggested firearm at the range. Grip is the main obstetrical. What feels good to you with proper grip and aim is what you should look for. Ranges often have rental firearms you can try. Determine what caliber you are comfortable with and try both revolver and semi-auto. Accuracy is in the hands of the shooter, NOT the firearm! Of you have safe shooter friends that can join you at the range, that would be a plus. But remember that your friend has already determined that his/her firearm is the best on the planet. We choose and are sold on "our favorite purchase item." You, however are searching for YOUR most comfortable firearm companion. Don't buy on suggestion or under pressure until YOU find at the range what you can shoot best.
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Old May 28, 2016, 05:28 PM   #33
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Quote:
Grip is the main obstetrical.
I'm guessing that spell check did you wrong there, but it cracked me up.
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Old May 28, 2016, 06:03 PM   #34
ScaryWoody
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I carry my Makarov during the summer. Great pistol. Ammo is cheap. Noise is not objectionable without ear plugs. Use hollow points and it is a good choice.
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Old May 28, 2016, 10:26 PM   #35
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Quote:
Grip is the main obstetrical.
I'm guessing that spell check did you wrong there, but it cracked me up.


Me too!!
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Old May 30, 2016, 04:19 AM   #36
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For self-defence purposes I'd have a fairly strong preference for a revolver, given your local laws.

You can't count on having both of your hands free when a self-defence situation arises.
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Old June 9, 2016, 03:04 PM   #37
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Latvian Concealed Carry

I'd go with the Makarov. They're uber reliable, relatively compact, and were designed with FMJ in mind. I've got an IJ70, which is a single stack Makarov aimed at the civilian carry market. Basically, it's a military Makarov modified for adjustable sights and it's one of the most accurate pistols I've ever owned. It's not a rhino slayer by any means, bit it's adequate for civilian self-defense needs.
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Old June 10, 2016, 06:19 AM   #38
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RadekSkylark - any update?
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Old June 13, 2016, 03:47 PM   #39
RadekSkylark
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Hey guys. There was a hickup in my permit process, today sorted it out, so I'm hopping I'll get my permit this week. When I'll get it I'll try to decide on the revolver vs. pistol thing and will definitely go to range to shoot few of my options. Then I'll finally decide what to buy.

Thanks for support!
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Old June 16, 2016, 12:44 PM   #40
RadekSkylark
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Hallo guys - little update.

Today I got my permit for a purchase of a handgun. So now I can go shopping for a gun. Hopefully in a week I'll shoot few guns and decide on what to get. After buying the gun I'll have to register it in the police and then I'll get my CCW license.

Thanks for everything!
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Old June 17, 2016, 03:35 PM   #41
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Hallo again.

Today for final time I went to shops which sell the guns on my list. Specifically I went to the shop which sells the Glock 26, then another shop that has a range and sells Glock 19 and that S&W 640 (I'm pretty sure that's a 640) and then finally to the shop that has Makarov and Sig Sauer P230 for sale.

When I went to the shop with a range I wanted to fire few of my first bullets with the Glock 19, Makarov, Sig Sauer P230 and the S&W 640. My goal was just to get a little feel of these guns as they are my most probable choices. Unfortunately there was quite a huge queue to get to shooting and as I was interested in possibly buying Glock 19 or S&W 640 from them they gave me to shoot of few rounds with both guns without waiting in queue. As one shot costs 1,15$ with range gun and I only wanted to get a little feel of how those guns handle I went on to shoot 5 rounds with both of these guns.

I forgot to tell the guy to load up the S&W 640 with .38 Special rounds so he loaded the .357 Magnums. I was shooting from 10 yards - the guy stood me there and clearly it didn't really make any difference to me as my goal at that moment was just to feel out those guns. My impressions where shocking. First of all I didn't think that the trigger pull will be so heavy. When I first pulled the trigger I pulled it with the strength I though would be necessary to fire the gun - trigger didn't even move a bit - that was when I realized just how heavy that trigger is - I really had to put though into squeezing it. On top of that I have to be honest - I was not prepared for that recoil. Not that I got hit with the handgun in my face, I just didn't think it would recoil that hard. I was trying to stand in isosceles stance and tried to hold the handgun firmly. Although now looking back, I think I should've held it even stronger. After 3rd or 4th shot I felt the recoil in my hand a bit. First shot I fired of was quite a good one (beginners luck I think) - hit around an inch from the center of the target. Second shot hit something like inch lower that the first (diagonally). The rest 3 where all over the place (hits, though). But again, I did my best just to feel out the gun - training makes perfect.

After that I tried out the Glock 19. Of course sights were nicer and I could try to get more accurate shots on target. Recoil was no where as hard as that of the S&W 640 with .357 rounds. Trigger squeeze was a breeze compared to the S&W 640 - I really didn't need to put a lot of though in to it - when I decided to fire the gun it was easily accomplished. The hits in general where a bit tighter group (all scattered over the place anyway), though non of the hits where as good as the first two with that S&W 640, even though I tried much harder to aim and hit my intended target than with the revolver.

Because of the fact that i would have needed to wait for quite a while to shoot with the Makarov and Sig Sauer P230 I decided to leave it at that as I didn't have the time and I though that even if I would the range would close and I could possibly leave without shooting those guns. So I decided to leave it at that, as the main thing for me was to compare that S&W revolver to a decent pistol - which I'm really happy I did - it really gave me another perspective to my though process.

After shooting I asked instructor would the .38 Special rounds have considerably less recoil than those .357 Magnum and he answered that the recoil is smaller, although not that much. Can you guys conform this? Or would that recoil be considerably smaller making the gun much easier to manage?

My though after firing my first 10 rounds ever are as fallows:
1) I would definitely need to get accustomed to the recoil and trigger pull of that S&W 640 to learn to shoot well;
2) As I consider the revolver for a possibility of a situation where I have only one hand available for operation of handgun after today I have a feeling that getting accurate shots on target beyond 3-4 yards with one hand only could be a real challenge (it could be my lack of experience talking, though). On the other hand the possibility of me being limited to one hand operations could be the highest in that 3 yards range which could involve animal attack, attacker with a knife or something of similar nature where I use one of my hands to defend. Although situations where my hand could be injured or if I would hold my child with my hand could arise even in further shooting distance scenarios in which case it could be a real challenge to connect with my shots one handed especially if I'm moving. What do you guys think about this aspect? Does this aspect makes a revolver less favorable choice in one handed situations, not even considering reloads here? Or am I wrong and shooting precisely at distances beyond 3-4 yards one handed with a .38 Special J-frame is plenty doable?
3) The Glock felt good in my hand, I liked the original sights (of course I don't know better) - they seemed to be easily usable for me. The recoil was much lighter, trigger pull was more pleasant.

On top of these experiences I have few more thoughts after holding the Glock 26 and Makarov in my hands at the shops visited.

I liked the Glock 26, I know I would need to get accustomed to that two finger grip, but from the size perspective I really liked that gun - it was really small for what I understand. Also I was expecting it to be more bulkier. Of course when I compared it to Glock 43 it was noticeably wider. Though I don't think that difference is enough for me to consider paying more for a brand new Glock 43 instead of that Glock 26 in a good condition. Also I felt that if I couldn't manage to comfortably conceal Glock 26 I shouldn't be able to conceal any of the pistols/revolver in my list - the Glock 26 so far seems for me to be the most concealable pistol from my list. Also I noticed it to be a little bit challenging to push the magazine release button (the Glock 26 is a 3rd gen with texture between finger grooves), although I think it is a matter of practice.

I really liked the salesman (owner) of the shop that sells Makarovs and those Sig Sauer P230 on my list. He was super friendly and consulted me well. I told him my today's experiences and asked him to consult me on Makarov vs Sig Sauer P230. He told me the two main things why he likes the Makarov better (not even talking about the price, which of course for Makarov is almost half of the Sig Sauer P230). Have to also add that he has carried Makarov for many years and now he has been carrying a Glock 19 for past few years. The first thing he doesn't like is that Sig Sauer P230 doesn't have a slide stop, which would make it more difficult to deal with a double feed malfunction. The second thing is that Makarov from his experience has a little bit lighter recoil. Just to add to the price difference of these guns 9x18 rounds also are a little bit cheaper. Also he told me that they soon will have in stock some kind of Makarov grip which has a regular magazine release button on the side of the handle - although for me it will cost almost the same amount as the gun itself (if someone has a link to a description of this grip I would appreciate if you could provide me that link). He told me if I buy Makarov I should chose between Russian or East German Makarovs. He things that East German Makarovs are higher quality so I asked him to show me what he has. So he showed me a box of Makarov pistols they bough off of a bank security service which was reorganized - there were used Makarovs in normal condition for around 80$ (as mentioned in the OP), but for my surprise he also has NEW Makarovs for 115$ with two magazines. I was shocked when I saw those totally black Makarovs (the seems blued or something). They were in perfect condition. No scratches from carrying on the tip of the slide, no visible mark from bullets in the barrel, oiled like totally new - I haven't seen many guns, but those were really clean. Really, they seemed like a perfect peaces for collection. If I'll decide to go with a Makarov I will definitely get one of those and post the pictures - they seems so perfect.

So I'm set on making my mind till next week when I think I'll but either S&W 640, Glock 26 or East German Makarov (pretty much in new condition). The price difference between those Makarovs and Glock 26 is 345$ (+ around 35$ for a second magazine for the Glock). Also, for Makarov or Glock there is a possibility that I'll be able to get a decent IWB holster locally (at the same shop those Makarovs are sold - they make thier own holsters). I think I shouldn't have problems concealing a Makarov also. Getting a S&W 640 will require me to order IWB holster and speed loader from US.

Hope you guys can help me with some advice to make this choice a bit easier.

Thank you for every thing - your guidance has been a bless.

Last edited by RadekSkylark; June 17, 2016 at 03:45 PM.
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Old June 20, 2016, 06:04 PM   #42
RadekSkylark
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One more though you guys could maybe comment on...

Here is a list of priorities in a defensive gun usage scenario (from my perspective):
1) Ability to carry a handgun with you at all times;
2) Ability to draw it fast and to prepare the handgun for shooting (drawing and racking a slide on a semi-auto or just drawing a revolver);
3) Ability to hit the target;
4) Ability to shoot for as long as possible (thus capacity of a handgun);
5) Ability to reload a handgun as fast as possible to continue shooting.

I've come down to this (analysis):
1) I feel I will only be able to carry a small handgun on my person, if I want to carry all the time - thus I'm limited to S&W 640, Makarov or Glock 26;
2) Drawing could be quite similar with all of the three handguns mentioned, but of course revolver is the best when it comes to preparing it for shooting;
3) For distances up to 10 yards I think that with practice there is negligible difference. Although for me, a beginner, I feel that the lower cost of semi-auto ammo and the lighter trigger of a semi-auto could give me advantage when I just start carrying/training;
4) Revolver has only 5 shots, Makarov 8 and Glock 26 - 10. So semi-autos have the advantage here;
5) I'm pretty certain that in a stressful situation average Joe like myself could reload a semi-auto faster.


I really believe that the only pro of a S&W 640 that I really appreciate is the fact that it is ready to fire all the time - which is really important to at least start defending yourself (especially in a one handed operation situation). Although now I'm starting to think about gunfight statistics on bullets fired vs hits... as fat as I know generally you miss at least 50% of shots if target is not statics etc. So with this in mind I think that I could count only on 3 bullets that would hit my intended target in a self defense situation. Three .38 Special FMJ rounds could definitely be not enough to stop an attacker (if there is only one attacker - if I would connect in stomach bullets will over-penetrate and my attacker will be coming forward at least for some time until bleeding stops him). If that happens or if there are multiple attackers I'm pretty sure there wont be enough time to do a reload on a revolver. Is is also supported by what I read on luckygunner.com, I quote: "Tom Givens, one of the most experienced and respected firearms instructors in the country, has been quoted as saying, “In 40 years I’ve been doing this, I have never found a case where someone successfully reloaded a revolver in a close range gunfight.” Since 90-95% of armed civilian gun fights happen inside the “close range” of 7 yards, I’d say your chances of pulling off that revolver reload are slim to none."Thus, I'm now thinking that there is quite a large possibility that I could just be done after 5 shots without being able to reload my revolver, in which case I wouldn't have really fulfilled my mission of defending myself or my family. Thus having a handgun could still be not enough to get through, just because of capacity. On the other hand if I would have a semi-auto with higher capacity there would be higher chance of me stopping the attacker if I start shooting just because of the capacity. And if I'll need a reload there is at least some possibility that in a stressful situation I could have a better chance making a reload and continuing to fight.


From this thorough analysis I've come to a conclusion that there are two separate situations to consider - one where the fight is close quarters and second when there is at least few yards distance.

In the first situation (close quarters - basically hand to hand combat distance) there would be a high possibility of being limited to one handed operations. In such a situation if there is only one attacker I would be able to draw the revolver and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't miss much as the distance is super close (if of course wild fighting is not going on). So in such a situation 1 on 1 I should be ok with only 5 shots and I shouldn't need an instant reload. So in this situation the revolver could hold the advantage over semi-auto because it is ready to fire instantly after I draw it. If this situation contains multiple attackers I'm screwed pretty much anyway, if I'm not able to separate and get some distance to bring the gun into play.

The second situation is one where I could possibly have one or multiple attackers and I would have some time to draw the gun and chamber a round. So in this situation semi-autos all the way (at least I think so at this moment).

It seems that it really comes down to the most probable situation I could be in. If that is hand-to-hand combat distance where I would need to draw my gun and shoot really fast, possibly being limited to only one handed operations, a revolver would be the best choice. If, on the other hand, the most likely situation is one where there is some distance between me and the attacker so I have enough time to use both of my hands to chamber the round I think I could possibly be better of with a semi-auto.

Of course there are some exceptions to both these situations but I think these give the general idea.


What I wanted to ask guys:
1) which situation do you think is more probable in reality?
2) would you better carry a revolver with 5 rounds and get of them fast connecting maybe with only 3, and then start to scramble for a reload, or would you better scramble for distance to get some time for chambering a round in a semi-auto pistol and having a higher capacity which could be the difference between live and death with over-penetrating FMJ's?

Thank again - you're the best!
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Old June 20, 2016, 09:51 PM   #43
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Truly you have a dizzying intellect. (reference to the movie The Princess Bride)

There are always compromises and no perfect solution.

On the 640, first of all, .38 is a lot less recoil than .357. But I think you would have to also invest in an action tuning job to get it where you could manage the trigger. Being able to carry with one in the chamber is a huge advantage, but if you can't work the trigger, that advantage is nullified.

Overall, I'm going to reverse my earlier recommendation and say you would better served with the G26 - in my opinion.
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Old June 21, 2016, 08:20 AM   #44
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After thinking about it I decided to buy that S&W 640. Decided that before buying it I should shoot it once more with those .38 Specials. It turns out that the gun range didn't have any .38 Special in stock and they actually told me that they've previously bought out all the local shops (thus they bought all the .38 special ammo which was available at local shops). They also told me that the supply of .38 specails is not that constant - there are moments when ammo for reasonable prices is not available. At that moment I understood that I need to call up local shops to check if there are any .38 special rounds avaialble. Only two shops had some ammunition. One of shops has some .38 Specials left, but their price is 0,64$/pc. Another shops claims thay they have a constant supply of Seller & Bellot .38 Specials - these cost 0,46$/pc. At that moment I understood that I really need to overthink buying that revolver just because of the fact that I would possibly need to relay on one company for ammo. Not only that, I realized that ammo for 9x18 and 9x19 is 0,24$/pc. (constant supply) which is 53% of the .38 special ammo. Basically I could get two times the ammount of training with 9x18 or 9x19 compared to a .38 special in a revolver. I mean I decided that revolver beeing ready to fire at all times is what I need, but at the same time I understood that I would be limited to around 50 rounds instead of around 100 in a month for practice + I wouldn't be able to really implement any airsoft/airgun training. Will I be able to get good with such a limited amount of practice to only get a gun ready to fire instantly after a draw? So is a chambered gun that important on would cut their practice in half compared to a semi-auto?

What do you guys think?
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Old June 21, 2016, 09:03 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadekSkylark View Post
After thinking about it I decided to buy that S&W 640. Decided that before buying it I should shoot it once more with those .38 Specials. It turns out that the gun range didn't have any .38 Special in stock and they actually told me that they've previously bought out all the local shops (thus they bought all the .38 special ammo which was available at local shops). They also told me that the supply of .38 specails is not that constant - there are moments when ammo for reasonable prices is not available. At that moment I understood that I need to call up local shops to check if there are any .38 special rounds avaialble. Only two shops had some ammunition. One of shops has some .38 Specials left, but their price is 0,64$/pc. Another shops claims thay they have a constant supply of Seller & Bellot .38 Specials - these cost 0,46$/pc. At that moment I understood that I really need to overthink buying that revolver just because of the fact that I would possibly need to relay on one company for ammo. Not only that, I realized that ammo for 9x18 and 9x19 is 0,24$/pc. (constant supply) which is 53% of the .38 special ammo. Basically I could get two times the ammount of training with 9x18 or 9x19 compared to a .38 special in a revolver. I mean I decided that revolver beeing ready to fire at all times is what I need, but at the same time I understood that I would be limited to around 50 rounds instead of around 100 in a month for practice + I wouldn't be able to really implement any airsoft/airgun training. Will I be able to get good with such a limited amount of practice to only get a gun ready to fire instantly after a draw? So is a chambered gun that important on would cut their practice in half compared to a semi-auto?

What do you guys think?
A small revolver is more difficult to master in my opinion. They typically have a 10-12# double action trigger, short sight radius, and subpar sights.

I would look really hard at a Glock 26 for a first handgun. They are ready to fire with a round in the chamber, good capacity, and a vast ammount of accessories and holsters available to fit any carry need.

As you found thr 38spl is a little harder to find, more costly to practice, and has fewer options for defensive rounds. Look online for your ammo needs (ammoseek.com, gunbot.net, etc)

Alternatively, you can buy a Ruger LCR in 9mm and carry a couple moon clips for reloads. They are much quicker to reload than a standard 38spl in that you have a "speedloader" already attached and the 9mm are tapered to load very easily. You would have the benefit of less expensive rounds and vast array of defense rounds to pick from.

Just my .02 cents!

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Old June 21, 2016, 10:08 AM   #46
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If I understand your situation correctly, the only thing the revolver has going for it, due to your local laws, is that you can carry it ready to fire, as opposed to being required to carry a semi chamber empty. After reading your more recent posts, I would be concerned not only about the price of the .38 special ammo, but also its availability.

As much as I like my Glock 26, if you are absolutely sure of the price and continued availability of the Mak ammo, I would still go with one of those first because of the price difference. If you have any doubts about the ammo availability and think the 9x19 has a more reliable supply, I would go back to the G26. I agree with the earlier post that said that a snub-nosed revolver is a challenging gun to shoot well. I used to carry a S&W 642, and I honestly never enjoyed practicing with it. When you add in the ammo supply problems I would really shy away from the revolver if I were in your shoes. I don't like having to rack the slide before firing, but the other problems of the revolver seem like bigger obstacles to me.
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Old June 21, 2016, 10:50 AM   #47
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Sorry some of my reply is not applicable to you as I see you are outside of the US (after reading your OP).

I would still see if there are any 9mm revolvers available in your area.

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Old June 21, 2016, 11:58 AM   #48
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A 9mm revolver is a very good idea. Is 357mag easier to get than 38spl? If so how about a 7 shot S&W 686+?
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Old June 21, 2016, 03:46 PM   #49
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Do you consider Lehigh Defense hollow point? It is not expanding.
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Old June 21, 2016, 03:49 PM   #50
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Also on a separate note...are you considering defending yourself in case Russia crosses Latvia? You might need to consider caliber choices
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