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July 13, 2010, 04:52 PM | #1 | |
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How our NFA rights were stolen from us
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I never knew that the Dems actually rigged the vote, and despite getting caught, still kept it in the final bill. What can we do (beyond the obvious political solution) to prevent something like this from happening again? Is there any way that the chicanery involved in the way the votes were tallied could be used to challenge the ban? |
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July 13, 2010, 05:22 PM | #2 |
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Well on the bright side (if there can be said to be a "bright side"), if the Dems were going to rig the vote and ignore the tallied results, we should be glad that the Hughes Amendment didn't ban civilian machinegun ownership entirely.
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July 13, 2010, 05:38 PM | #3 |
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One thing to remember: we desperately needed the FOPA. Things before its passage were grim for both gun owners and dealers.
Reagan wasn't happy with the Hughes Amendment, but he signed the bill in the belief that it did the most amount of good for the largest number of people at the time.
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July 13, 2010, 05:52 PM | #4 |
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Come on, come on, it was NRA's FAULT!
NRA HAS THE ONLY BLAME HERE! THEY LET THE AMENDMENT PASS! Ahem... Yeah. You'll hear that a lot from people who have no clue what they're talking about, that somehow NRA was in some nefarious deal to let this bit of legislation be tacked on as a rider to FOPA, or some such other idiocy. The Hughes Amendment was an exceptionally egregious piece of gerrymander-like abuse by the Democrats, one that was so blatant that it literally couldn't be defended against.
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July 13, 2010, 06:04 PM | #5 |
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I think we learned from the Hughes deal and used it well to allow CCW in National Parks. Just got back from Yellowstone and carried the whole time. Thanks to the "Credit Card" bill. Let's do more!
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July 13, 2010, 06:08 PM | #6 |
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Ah, as I see it, our NFA rights were taken from us about 1930 when the Arkansas moonshiner did not show up in court in DC to defend himself (about a short bbl shotgun).
I think the story as told in "Unintended Consequences" is accurate. Comments??
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July 13, 2010, 06:21 PM | #7 | |
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There's a good accounting of the Miller story here. Unintended Consequences did take a few liberties with the story, particularly in ignoring Jack Miller's criminal and character deficiencies.
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July 13, 2010, 06:24 PM | #8 |
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A 200-dollar tax stamp beats a $12,000 AR15 any day.
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July 13, 2010, 07:16 PM | #9 | |
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July 14, 2010, 12:28 AM | #10 |
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The NFA act of 1934 only infringed our rights. The Hughes amendment took them away. Prior to that a inventive and creative gunsmith could design and build a machine gun and regester it legally. Now that activity will get you put in jail if you don't spend thousands of dollars to get a class II license.
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July 14, 2010, 10:24 AM | #11 | |
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July 14, 2010, 10:29 AM | #12 |
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The number of bills, amendments to bills (and amendments to the Constitution!) that get enacted after they FAIL to pass is truly astounding. That very thing should be front and center in our angst. As much as I hate to say it, "gun rights" are ancillary. As long as the government continues to operate outside the will and control of the people, not to mention the law itself, nothing else much matters.... "winning" doesn't mean much when a bill that gets voted down today could be law tomorrow.
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July 14, 2010, 10:41 AM | #13 |
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Of course, we could have divine leaders just tell us what to do. Just vote the bums out.
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July 14, 2010, 10:46 AM | #14 | |
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You'd have to be completely intellectually dishonest to claim that an automatic weapon isn't a military weapon and then also claim that only the military can possess them. |
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July 14, 2010, 12:15 PM | #15 | ||
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July 14, 2010, 01:40 PM | #16 | |
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July 14, 2010, 02:11 PM | #17 | |
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July 14, 2010, 03:44 PM | #18 | |
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The states DO HAVE ARMED MILITIAS. The largest ones are collectively referred to as the National Guard. There's also 22 states which have individual state guards which aren't part of the National Guard system. |
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July 14, 2010, 04:26 PM | #19 | |
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The National Guard is funded by the fed. All of the state militias (again most states do not have them) that I am aware of are not armed and the members may not carry full auto weapons when they are not called up. TN has such a organization but it is not armed. Also, in TN it is voluntary.
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July 14, 2010, 04:55 PM | #20 |
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Here in MS our state guard brigades are not armed, although afaik they are training as MPs. I've emailed some of the officers but haven't been able to find out much more than that.
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July 14, 2010, 06:19 PM | #21 |
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Actually, the Texas State Guard is armed, though in recent pictures all I can find them using are M9s. However back in the 1980s, the Texas State Guard was one of the few entities to purchase the Holloway Arms HAC-7 .308 rifle for the state. (trivia)
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July 14, 2010, 10:33 PM | #22 | |
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July 15, 2010, 10:32 AM | #23 |
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There primary duties are mostly providing aid in emergencies, so they are definitely geared more towards logistics and support. It also certainly appears that the current Guard emphasizes those duties more as well; but some State Guard members have deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan and they do have weapons.
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July 15, 2010, 11:10 AM | #24 |
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It seems to me that the first clause of the 2A is meant to preserve the CAPABILITY of state being able to raise a militia from the ranks of the people. If our democratic institutions are so strong that is has been unnecessary to raise it for the purposes of resisting tyranny, then great.
As an analogy, even if my house may be nearly fireproof, I won't be tossing out my fire extinguishers. Eventually, we are going to need clarity that all conventional small arms are protected by the 2A, but with the likelihood that certain small arms may be subject to some additional regulation. But a ban such as we effectively have now must be off the table. But we have much worse problems to tackle than NFA right now. We have active, so-called assault weapons bans in severals states. Now, if my civilian, semi-auto, M4-style AR15 isn't the MOST protected weapon in the country, I'll eat my friggin' hat. We can worry all we want about the NFA, but rest-assured, the minute any state needs or merely wishes to activate the militia drawn from the general population, we will have all the FA's, SBS's, SBR's we are going to need. |
July 15, 2010, 11:33 AM | #25 | |
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The ONLY TSG members who can carry firearms are the members of the Quick Reaction Team that has a detachment with each local regiment.
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