|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
June 13, 2010, 11:19 AM | #1 |
Junior Member
Join Date: February 12, 2010
Posts: 10
|
questions about draco. sbr or aow
i have heard conflicting information about draco pistols. i have heard that they are classified as handguns but not pistols and vice versa.
i have heard that i can add a vfg to the draco and that it would be legal due to the handgun but not a pistol loophole. i have also heard that doing so would require an any other weapon tax stamp. can anyone provide some clarification on this? if it is true an aow stamp is not required i would like to try this setup to see how i like it before moving on to an sbr build. i bought the draco with the plans to turn it into a sbr. as i understand it with an sbr i can build it with or without a stock and once it is built i can change it around like i want. is this correct? if so, i thought this would be the safest/best way to go with the build as i will be legal with any configuration i end up with. any information would be appreciated and thnks in advance. |
June 13, 2010, 11:43 AM | #2 |
Junior member
Join Date: August 5, 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,982
|
I have a hard time making sense of your post.
The only way something can be classified a handgun but not a pistol is if it is a revolver. Once a weapon is classified as a SBR you can take the stock on and off at will. I never heard of the accronym of a vfg. I am confused by the way you phrased the rest of your question so I'm not sure what you are asking. You might get more responses if you rewrite your question using capital letters and punctuation where appropriate. Folks would be able to understand it better. |
June 13, 2010, 12:38 PM | #3 | ||||
Junior Member
Join Date: February 12, 2010
Posts: 10
|
I'll see if i can rephrase my question to accommodate you.
I have heard conflicting reports that the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,and Firearms) has classified the Draco as a handgun, but not a pistol. I have also been told that it has been classified as a pistol, but not a handgun. I have been told that if I add a vfg (Vertical Forearm Grip) to the gun, and will be legal due to the handgun but not pistol loophole. I have also been told that this is incorrect, and would require an AOW (Any Other Weapon) stamp from the BATF. If I can legally add a vfg to the gun I would like to do so before going ahead with the SBR build to see if I like this setup. If an AOW is required I would be better off going with the SBR build since I could add or remove the stock as I see fit. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by uspJ; June 13, 2010 at 12:48 PM. |
||||
June 13, 2010, 08:30 PM | #4 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 1, 2006
Location: Brookville, PA
Posts: 442
|
You can add a VFG to a SBR and it will remain an SBR regardless of it having a shoulder stock or not. When you add a VFG to a handgun it becomes a AOW.
Being single shot, revolver, semi-auto, derringer, or whatever matters not - they are all handguns under the law(see definition below). When you add a shoulder stock to one with it having a barrel under 16" or an overall length less than 26" it becomes a SBR. Revolvers are "pistols". Also known as a "revolving pistol"(see Samuel Colt's patent). A revolver is just a type of pistol. The definition of a pistol goes back to the 1400's to mean a gun design to be held and fired with a single hand, very similar to the federal definition below. Quote:
|
|
June 14, 2010, 01:18 AM | #5 | |||||
Junior member
Join Date: August 5, 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,982
|
Quote:
Quote:
http://cfr.vlex.com/source/code-fede...-firearms-1076 Quote:
Pistols and revolvers, while different, are both handguns. Revolvers, however, are not pistols and pistols are not revolvers. The only exception to this rule are pepperboxes. One can look at a 100+ year old patent and draw any conclusion one wishes to, but the legal definition is quite clear and a 19th century mistake by a semiliterate blacksmith doesn't change that. Colt may have designed an interesting handgun (many folks contend that he stole the design) but no one claims that he was a legal scholar or that he was knowledgable about the correct useage of the English language. The definition of any other weapon (AOW): Quote:
BTW I did a search for VFG and these are the terms I came up with: Vintage Fashion Guild Victorian Frog Group an aeronautical radio station at Gander, Newfoundland and Labrador an indoor arena located in Guadalajara, Mexico Vehicle Finance Group vereinigung fotografischer gestalterInnen Verein für Grossveranstaltungen Variable Frequency Generator Viral Friend generator The web page "What does VFG stand for?" lists: http://www.abbreviations.com/VFG Virtual Flying Group Governmental VFG Virtual Flying Group Community VFG Virtual Facility Group Business VFG Venture Financial Group, Inc. Business VFG Vascularized Fibular Graft Medical VFG Vendor Finance Group Business VFG Vegetables, Fruit, And Garden Miscellaneous VFG Video Frequency Generator I finally saw ONE reference to it on the 4th search page and no more after that in the next few pages. It seems to be an obscure acronym. I wasn't trying to bust on anyone for spelling errors, most of us make them and as long as it doesn't make the post hard to follow few people care. I couldn't follow the OP because of the way it was written, and was asking for clarification. And here is the definition of acronym: Quote:
Last edited by ISC; June 14, 2010 at 01:40 AM. |
|||||
June 14, 2010, 01:46 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 23, 1999
Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska
Posts: 704
|
If you build an AOW from a pistol the tax is $200, if you then build it into a Short Rifle the tax is an additional $200. So if SBR is your final goal, the AOW step is rather wastefull
|
June 14, 2010, 02:26 AM | #7 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 1, 2006
Location: Brookville, PA
Posts: 442
|
Quote:
You have to remember, you need to use the original meaning of words - otherwise we are no better than those that wish to have the word "people" mean the body of the citizens as a whole instead of individuals, or the "militia" to mean only the "National Guard". As for Colt using term, it was proper then as it is now. The original meaning has nothing to do with integral chambers, of which is a modern and mutilated definition. That original definition is circa 1450 or so and is just gun designed to be held and fired with a single hand. Do some digging, you'll find the definition. A revolver is a revolving pistol. |
|
June 14, 2010, 04:08 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 5, 2009
Location: Uh-Hi-O
Posts: 3,006
|
If you call it a pistol or a handgun does not matter. You cannot legally put a VFG on it without a tax stamp.
Form 1 SBR the darn thing and be done with it. Come back and post pics when you are done.
__________________
"9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens |
June 14, 2010, 04:30 AM | #9 | |||
Junior member
Join Date: August 5, 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,982
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
* ********* * * Recognizing the difference between a revolver and a pistol is a useful distinctinction, just as recognizing the difference between an automatic weapon and a semiautomatic one. The fact that many of the first semi autos were initially referred to as "automatic" doesn't mean that the distinction shouldn't be made. Last edited by ISC; June 14, 2010 at 04:41 AM. |
|||
June 14, 2010, 09:34 AM | #10 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: February 12, 2010
Posts: 10
|
Quote:
If I could have put a vfg on without the AOW stamp i would have. I'm going the SBR route, that way I can go with any options for setup without paying the additional $200 for an AOW. I just needed clarification about the vfg before I went ahead and got the paperwork started for the SBR. Thanks all. |
|
June 14, 2010, 09:44 AM | #11 |
Junior member
Join Date: August 5, 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,982
|
Again, why does putting a forward pistol grip on a pistol make it an AOW? Does anyone have a link to the law regulating that?
|
June 14, 2010, 09:59 AM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 1,399
|
Good Discussion HERE. A snip that woud interest you in putting a vertical foregrip on a Draco.
Quote:
Interestingly, there is a court ruling in South Carolina (US v. Davis 8:93-106)that says adding a vertical foregrip to a pistol does not inherently change the design of the pistol, nor it's function, therfore does not constitute making an NFA firearm by merely putting a vertical foregrip on the weapon. You can read it yourself, HERE. Read paragraph 24 through the end. It explains the position of the ATF interpreting the Definition of a Pistol as having a short stock that is capable of being fired with one hand. They argue that you can only have ONE STOCK on the gun for it to be a pistol. It furthermore argues that by adding a vertical foregrip on the gun, it is now designed to be fired with TWO hands, therefore once a foregrip is added to a pistol, it becomes an AOW. The court dismissed these charges, the appeals court upheld this dismissal, thereby making the ATF ruling on Vertical Foregrips on pistols a non issue. If you wanted to test this case law, then you are more than welcome to add a Vertical Foregrip to your Draco. However, I'll tell you MOST folks who dabble in NFA gear would recommend you go ahead and register it as an AOW, or SBR. Even though it would appear you are in the legal right, it may cost a bunch of money to prove it. Better to spend the $200 up front and have a Form 1 than it is to pay lawyers. (IMVHO) I am NOT a lawyer. Please seek your own legal advice when playing in this particular sandbox. Last edited by rjrivero; June 14, 2010 at 09:47 PM. |
|
June 26, 2010, 09:03 AM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 23, 2008
Posts: 136
|
An AOW tax stamp is actually $5.00, while the SBR stamp is $200.00. So, legally mounting a VFG to your Draco really isn't that expensive after all.
|
June 26, 2010, 09:38 AM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 1,399
|
The AOW TRANSFER Stamp is $5.00. The Form 1 is $200 no matter if you're making an AOW or SBR. The tax stamp to transfer an SBR is $200.
|
June 26, 2010, 11:22 AM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 23, 2008
Posts: 136
|
Ahhh, thank you, RJ. I stand corrected.
|
June 26, 2010, 03:05 PM | #16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 15, 2001
Location: Winter Haven, Florida
Posts: 4,303
|
Quote:
__________________
NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member |
|
June 26, 2010, 07:37 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 28, 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 400
|
I may be way off base, but ALLOWING it to be used with two hands by adding a VFG doesn't seem to change the design that it is MEANT to be fired with one hand. It still can be fired using one hand, or with two, if you so choose. Basic design is unchanged, but a new feature is added.
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|