Question on suitability of cast vs. jacketed rifle bullets

Smaug · September 22, 2008, 10:22 AM

I gather from my reloading manuals that cast bullets at higher speeds are a no-no. Is it because of excess pressure because the cast bullets are slightly bigger in diameter, or is it because of excessive lead fouling?

I'm curious because I have a Redhawk in 44 Mag and am thinking of adding a Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag, and would like the cost savings of being able to shoot hardcast bullets.

So I guess I'd like to know how fast the bullet has to be moving before cast bullets are a no-go.

Is it that cast bullets are going to lead the bore a lot no matter what?

Thanks.

Scorch · September 22, 2008, 11:08 AM

You can shoot cast bullets out of almost any rifle you choose, as long as you respect the limitations of cast bullets and the cartridge. This usually means keeping velocity below 1,100 fps with plain-base cast bullets (hard cast a little faster), or below 2,000 fps and using gas-checked or paper-patched bullets. And not just because of the friction-induced leading, but also gas-cutting caused by the pressure required to get beyond that velocity. I used to shoot cast bullets in 308 and 32-20 (both gas-checked), and 11mm Mauser (paper-patched). The only limitations are in your mind. Jacketed bullets are just easier to deal with.

HOGGHEAD · September 22, 2008, 01:26 PM

I have no problem with bullets that do not have GC's at 1600 fps. And I have pushed them at 1800 fps with no real problems(leading or inaccuracy).

Velocity is the main reason why cast bullets tend to shine in the big bores. Normally max velocity in the big bores is well within the limits of cast bullet velocity.

If you GC your 44 magnum cast bullets, then you can not push them fast enough to have a problem. I shoot a GC RCBS cast bullet from my Marlin 44 magnum. The bullet will take all I can give it. A jacketed bullet could not yield any more velocity in the cartridge. Tom.

AlaskaMike · September 22, 2008, 05:28 PM

My personal opinion of why most manuals have limited information on cast bullet loads is because they're not really interested in publishing it.

I think the .44 Magnum is virtually tailor made for cast bullets, both in the rifle and revolver. I have four .44 magnum revolvers, and cast bullets is all they ever see. My .44 Mag Rossi 92 has also never seen a jacketed bullet. In the revolvers, my heavy loads are a 250 grain SWC at 1300 - 1400 fps (depending on barrel length), or a 300 grain SWC at 1200 - 1250 fps. Those bullets are cast from my own moulds, are plain based, and give no leading. The Rossi is fed either 200 grain RN Lasercast commercial lead bullets for low recoil loads, or a 295 grain gas checked bullet that I cast myself. The 295 grain bullet I've pushed so far to almost 1600 fps, but I'm still working up loads for it. The rifle's bore is shiny and lead-free.

On the high end of velocity, I've pushed a 180 grain gas checked bullet (Lyman #311332) to about 2400 fps in an 03-A3 with no leading whatsoever.

The alloy for bullets I cast myself is simply air cooled wheel weight metal, even in the .30-06. I experimented with water quenching (dropping them out of the moulds into a bucket of water) to see if harder bullets worked better, but for me it was no better than air cooled.

I should point out that while I have no personal experience with Marlin 1894s, I've read quite a bit about those that have the microgroove rifling, and that they can be a little finicky with cast. It sounds like they can be made to shoot cast very easily, but that they may be a bit more sensitive than rifles with conventional rifling with regard to bullet diameter and hardness. Hopefully someone with some firsthand knowledge can help you out if you do buy the Marlin. A great site you may want to ask about this is http://castboolits.gunloads.com Wonderful people, and very knowledgeable about all things relating to cast bullets.

I know that some people have had no luck shooting cast, and that could be for a variety of reasons--rough bores, undersized bullets, poor lube, excessively tight throats (in revolver cylinders), etc. However, I've been pretty lucky in this regard, and all of my guns shoot cast beautifully.

Mike

dardascastbullets · September 22, 2008, 06:02 PM

Hi Smaug!
We have several customers that load our .44-240 grain cast bullet 'to the hilt' and have reported very accurate results with no leading! In fact, they commented on how shiny and clean their bores looked after firing! You can load up your .44 stoughtly with cast bullets as long as the bullet's alloy has enough strength and will obterate properly.

Matt Dardas
Dardas Cast Bullets
www.dardascastbullets.webs.com

September 22, 2008, 10:22 AM	#1
Smaug Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2004 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 3,210	Question on suitability of cast vs. jacketed rifle bullets I gather from my reloading manuals that cast bullets at higher speeds are a no-no. Is it because of excess pressure because the cast bullets are slightly bigger in diameter, or is it because of excessive lead fouling? I'm curious because I have a Redhawk in 44 Mag and am thinking of adding a Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag, and would like the cost savings of being able to shoot hardcast bullets. So I guess I'd like to know how fast the bullet has to be moving before cast bullets are a no-go. Is it that cast bullets are going to lead the bore a lot no matter what? Thanks. __________________ -Jeremy "Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength." - Eric Hoffer

September 22, 2008, 11:08 AM	#2
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	You can shoot cast bullets out of almost any rifle you choose, as long as you respect the limitations of cast bullets and the cartridge. This usually means keeping velocity below 1,100 fps with plain-base cast bullets (hard cast a little faster), or below 2,000 fps and using gas-checked or paper-patched bullets. And not just because of the friction-induced leading, but also gas-cutting caused by the pressure required to get beyond that velocity. I used to shoot cast bullets in 308 and 32-20 (both gas-checked), and 11mm Mauser (paper-patched). The only limitations are in your mind. Jacketed bullets are just easier to deal with. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

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September 22, 2008, 01:26 PM	#3
HOGGHEAD Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2008 Location: Rivesville, WV Posts: 637	FPS I have no problem with bullets that do not have GC's at 1600 fps. And I have pushed them at 1800 fps with no real problems(leading or inaccuracy). Velocity is the main reason why cast bullets tend to shine in the big bores. Normally max velocity in the big bores is well within the limits of cast bullet velocity. If you GC your 44 magnum cast bullets, then you can not push them fast enough to have a problem. I shoot a GC RCBS cast bullet from my Marlin 44 magnum. The bullet will take all I can give it. A jacketed bullet could not yield any more velocity in the cartridge. Tom.

September 22, 2008, 05:28 PM	#4
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	My personal opinion of why most manuals have limited information on cast bullet loads is because they're not really interested in publishing it. I think the .44 Magnum is virtually tailor made for cast bullets, both in the rifle and revolver. I have four .44 magnum revolvers, and cast bullets is all they ever see. My .44 Mag Rossi 92 has also never seen a jacketed bullet. In the revolvers, my heavy loads are a 250 grain SWC at 1300 - 1400 fps (depending on barrel length), or a 300 grain SWC at 1200 - 1250 fps. Those bullets are cast from my own moulds, are plain based, and give no leading. The Rossi is fed either 200 grain RN Lasercast commercial lead bullets for low recoil loads, or a 295 grain gas checked bullet that I cast myself. The 295 grain bullet I've pushed so far to almost 1600 fps, but I'm still working up loads for it. The rifle's bore is shiny and lead-free. On the high end of velocity, I've pushed a 180 grain gas checked bullet (Lyman #311332) to about 2400 fps in an 03-A3 with no leading whatsoever. The alloy for bullets I cast myself is simply air cooled wheel weight metal, even in the .30-06. I experimented with water quenching (dropping them out of the moulds into a bucket of water) to see if harder bullets worked better, but for me it was no better than air cooled. I should point out that while I have no personal experience with Marlin 1894s, I've read quite a bit about those that have the microgroove rifling, and that they can be a little finicky with cast. It sounds like they can be made to shoot cast very easily, but that they may be a bit more sensitive than rifles with conventional rifling with regard to bullet diameter and hardness. Hopefully someone with some firsthand knowledge can help you out if you do buy the Marlin. A great site you may want to ask about this is http://castboolits.gunloads.com Wonderful people, and very knowledgeable about all things relating to cast bullets. I know that some people have had no luck shooting cast, and that could be for a variety of reasons--rough bores, undersized bullets, poor lube, excessively tight throats (in revolver cylinders), etc. However, I've been pretty lucky in this regard, and all of my guns shoot cast beautifully. Mike

September 22, 2008, 06:02 PM	#5
dardascastbullets Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Essexville, MI Posts: 164	Hi Smaug! We have several customers that load our .44-240 grain cast bullet 'to the hilt' and have reported very accurate results with no leading! In fact, they commented on how shiny and clean their bores looked after firing! You can load up your .44 stoughtly with cast bullets as long as the bullet's alloy has enough strength and will obterate properly. Matt Dardas Dardas Cast Bullets www.dardascastbullets.webs.com