Jacket rode up over holster at a Wedding, escorted out by five police officers

Holartic · March 16, 2013, 09:13 PM

I just went with a date to a wedding where neither I nor my date personally knew the bride or groom. The bride's mom was a business associate of my date.

I came just on time and was a bit rushed and since carrying a P7 every day since the incident in Connecticut I still have sometimes gotten misshapen on how I tuck my concealment over my holster. Anyway, I thought I had my jacket down, but apparently in my haste my jacket was hung up over the holster. My jacket must have ridden up while I was in the vehicle and even though I pulled down on it at least once and maybe twice the far right side of my jacket was hung over the Alessi CQC-S holster/P7. I should have visibly checked to make sure everything was ok instead of just pulling down on the jacket.

As I walked in, someone saw the holster right away. Shortly thereafter, the groom introduced himself and said "I don't think they will let you take that in there." And I said ok, I'll put it away especially for you.

When I returned there was a lady who was asking me who invited me with a nervous, suspicious tone which made me particularly uncomfortable because previous public experiences with open carry were entirely positive and I complied with the Groom's request to "not take that (the pistol) in there." I told her my date's name and she could not find her, and she told me to look around the pews and see if I she could be found. Hindsight says, they had already decided they did not want me there, it sounds like they just wanted to get upset also at whomever invited me. Perhaps I should have made up some excuse like "must be a different church," my mistake.

Anyway, I sat down with my date, a lady I have been on about six dates and she seemed friendly, she introduced me to her friends and everything seemed ok. Some more time passed and someone pulled my date aside and spoke with her a bit. She asked me if I was carrying a gun, and I said no because it was now in the vehicle. She asked me if I carried one earlier and I said, "my mistake." She got upset with me for making a scene in front of her friends who just happened to be business associates. I told her I did not create a scene, it seems that people overreacted.

Anyway, they called me aside and asked me to leave upon which I was greeted outside with five police officers. The female officer frisked me somewhat haphazardly, and another officer took my magazine and flashlight. They looked at my license; one of them remembered me from the vehicle wreck two years ago. They also looked at my pistol permit. I explained to them that I felt that it was important to carry considering Aurora and Newtown.

I was asked to leave the premises completely, and was escorted away by three of the officers. The police officers were sympathetic, and I am sure they could have made a lot bigger mess for me because after all it was my mistake, I should have been more careful to conceal the P7.

As for the date, even though she is quite a bit pro-gun, and I know she knows that I carry because I left the pistol in the car and went into her house with a holster, light and mag pouch, I doubt she will talk to me again. After all, what is she going to say to her friends? None of those people know me.

I did not think it would have been THAT big of a deal for someone carrying at a wedding especially after all the recent positive experiences I have had with open carry in stores and public settings.

For years I hear people talk about carrying a handgun everywhere they go. So, for a brief time I tried this without being OCD about concealment. Of all the places I visited, most of the time, without hardly even trying there was not an issue with concealment, nor an issue even with open carry. I am guessing the numbers of people who really try to carry a handgun mostly everywhere are few.

A pivotal part of the anti-gun strategy is careful, calculated social conditioning that tells the population that guns are bad, and the owners are crazy. Unfortunately my concealment mistake at a wedding did not help.

All most people want is the feeling of security at any cost of freedom, and their views are shaped, in large by the media and television in general. We live in a country that has a high percentage of firearms, yet the only firearms the public EVER observes are in movies, gang shootings, or media drama. The biased, controversial, portrayal of firearms in the USA is a calculated move to create an emotional argument demonizing gun owners encouraging ignorance and directing interest away from sports shooting.

Tactically there is absolutely no advantage to open carry. Politically, in light of all the mis-information, if every gun owner started open carry the public would have to get used to this idea. The thought that, maybe, just maybe, this would create a wave and interest in awareness in firearms that could outshine the anti's efforts to disarm.

olddav · March 16, 2013, 09:33 PM

oops!
It seems they over reacted a bit. I think I might have talked to you a bit, if you appead OK then on with the show. Although it is their wedding.

tynman · March 16, 2013, 09:39 PM

Well if she really likes you it shouldnt matter what her work friends think.. You didnt lie so she shouldnt care about anything else. You didnt cause a scene you left when you were asked... I dont see a problem..

If she dont call Im sure youll find someone else...

MTSCMike · March 16, 2013, 09:40 PM

Just part of the price you pay when "concealed" is not maintained. As a permit holder dedicated to concealed carry you just have to be more diligent about maintaining that concealment, especially in today's climate with respect to guns in general.

Also, I believe you can't just be a "one trick pony" with CCW. Different modes of carry or even weapon depending on the occasion and wardrobe required. My rig changes depending on the season and the acceptable attire for a given location or event.

At least you didn't insist on staying after being asked to leave. That can get you a criminal trespass citation and could result in the loss of CCW permit depending on your State laws.

All in all...lesson learned without much negative impact.

Joe_Pike · March 16, 2013, 09:44 PM

Five cops!?! That seems like overkill to me. Why didn't someone just ask you to leave if they were upset? I would have gladly left if someone that I was with wouldn't even support me for something like that.

bigkrackers · March 16, 2013, 09:46 PM

You took a gun to a private event, presumably at a privately owned location, you obviously didn't know that either you couldn't bring a gun into the establishment or the feelings of the bride/groom on the subject.

Worse,You failed to conceal the gun and brought attention to yourself and what happened happened.

Chalk it up to a learning moment. Lucky you weren't in a state where failing to conceal your weapon is itself a crime.

Holartic · March 16, 2013, 09:47 PM

The Groom did not ask me to leave, he just said "I don't think they will let you carry that in there." They wanted to now who I knew at the wedding, and since the person I know was not someone they knew then it got a bit confusing.

I think it took them a minute to decide if they needed to call the police, because in this area if you call he police they come in five minutes. That must have been at least two squad cars probably three.

Jayster · March 16, 2013, 09:49 PM

Bad deal. Bummer day.

To me they over reacted. But seems they might have had a reason too since they didn't know who you knew, maybe...

MTSCMike · March 16, 2013, 09:52 PM

A pretty typical response for the Police since all they likely knew was a call came in for "man with a gun at a wedding". Heck, these days you could have gotten the local SWAT team!

zxcvbob · March 16, 2013, 10:11 PM

Just be glad you weren't in the Las Vegas Metro area. They shoot permit holders for less than that, then cuff you and watch you bleed-out. And it's ALWAYS justified.

rlc323 · March 16, 2013, 10:46 PM

If your date won't take your side in this then good riddance to her. You made a mistake, no harm, except her embarrasment.

If she did not load up and leave with you, then she won't likely have your back any other time in the future.

Kreyzhorse · March 17, 2013, 06:01 AM

Concealed is concealed. You made a mistake but did exactly as you were asked to do by the wedding party and police. The police seems like a bit of over kill it is what it is.

As far as the date, she likely won't support you now or in the future so at least you found out now.

Thanks for sharing the story.

rebs · March 17, 2013, 06:41 AM

You made a mistake by not having your gun completely concealed and you learned a lesson from it. As far as your date, she chose her friends or associates over you, that is in it self enough for me not to date her again. If I was you I wouldn't call her and if she calls you just be polite and explain how she made you feel when she chose the others over you. A relationship where you are already second fiddle is not a good relationship.

Holartic · March 17, 2013, 07:50 AM

More precisely what happened is that, even though I pulled down on the jacket after getting out of the vehicle I did not visibly check to see if it was riding up over the holster. I thought I pulled down on the jacket once more in the building, but maybe I did not. The moral of the story here is not to just pull down on your suit jacket, but visibly check to see if everything is right.

dos0711 · March 17, 2013, 08:02 AM

She showed her colors. Better to found out now then down the road when you're more involved. You handled it well.

Pilot · March 17, 2013, 08:11 AM

You need deeper concealment for that kind of dress and event.

silvrjeepr · March 17, 2013, 09:11 AM

You guys get over yourself. I wouldn't turn my back on my friends for someone I've dated 5 it six times, and neither would you.

OP chalk it up to stuff happens and learn from it. Cut the girl some slack and whatever happens happens.

oldgunsmith · March 17, 2013, 09:25 AM

A good weapon retention course includes methods of carrying and other habits that help to avoid situations like that, not to mention what to do if someone tries to take it (anyone who thinks a gun can't be taken away from them isn't dealing with reality). The least likely to be taken is the one they don't know you have. Not rocket science. Anyone who carries without a good retention course knows not what he does.

Brian Pfleuger · March 17, 2013, 09:32 AM

Seems like over reactions all around but the strangest part of the whole thing, to me, is going to a wedding where neither of you even know the bride OR groom.

I've never heard of such a thing.

Holartic · March 17, 2013, 09:36 AM

My date was friends with the mom of the bride. The mom of the bride is her business associate.

The reason the jacket incident happened, is really just because I was in a hurry which had my attention focused elsewhere. Also, making a habit of open carry over the last three months set a precedent for less attention on the nuances of concealment.

adamc · March 17, 2013, 09:58 AM

I thought churches ,etc. Were off limits for cc.

I would not feel good about carrying at a wedding or something similar
just my 2¢

Glenn E. Meyer · March 17, 2013, 10:10 AM

Places of worship being off limits vary by state. One needs to know the local law.

The incident was a screw up all around. Also, relationship advice isn't our mission.

5 cops - did they over react? There have been church rampages. So when a dispatcher gets a call - should they err on the side of more?

Best answer - check yourself.

kentuckycountryboy · March 17, 2013, 10:13 AM

Adamc, the church thing varies by state. To me, any large event is when you need to carry anymore, especially if emotions of other people can get involved. A church service is a great target for a shooter, as is a wedding. The wedding also runs the risk of a jealous ex showing up and trying to start trouble. I'd feel no different carrying at a wedding than while going to the store.

Pilot · March 17, 2013, 10:13 AM

It sounds like the cops handled it well. They could have sent a SWAT team, cuffed and detained the OP and let the lawyers sort it out. Instead it sounds like they were reasonable.

They did give you back the P7, flashlight, etc afterwards, correct? No charges filed, correct?

Holartic · March 17, 2013, 10:49 AM

Yes, the police gave back the magazine and the flashlight. They never saw the P7 because it was in the vehicle. The police did not arrest me, or file any charges. I am really lucky everything worked out as well as it did.

I am really sorry I embarrassed my date. I sincerely hope nothing else bad comes of this. I dislike all types of drama. This experience, for me is unique.

I opened carry in quite a few places in the last two months and occasionally someone would ask a question but otherwise everything was ok.

The only reason I would open carry is just to get the public used to seeing firearms, but it seems to be an uphill battle and tactically there is no advantage to open carry.

Regardless, the wedding was supposed to be concealed carry. Again, the moral is to do a visual check not just "pull down on jacket."

March 16, 2013, 09:13 PM	#1
Holartic Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Posts: 28	Jacket rode up over holster at a wedding, escorted out by three police officers I just went with a date to a wedding where neither I nor my date personally knew the bride or groom. The bride's mom was a business associate of my date. I came just on time and was a bit rushed and since carrying a P7 every day since the incident in Connecticut I still have sometimes gotten misshapen on how I tuck my concealment over my holster. Anyway, I thought I had my jacket down, but apparently in my haste my jacket was hung up over the holster. My jacket must have ridden up while I was in the vehicle and even though I pulled down on it at least once and maybe twice the far right side of my jacket was hung over the Alessi CQC-S holster/P7. I should have visibly checked to make sure everything was ok instead of just pulling down on the jacket. As I walked in, someone saw the holster right away. Shortly thereafter, the groom introduced himself and said "I don't think they will let you take that in there." And I said ok, I'll put it away especially for you. When I returned there was a lady who was asking me who invited me with a nervous, suspicious tone which made me particularly uncomfortable because previous public experiences with open carry were entirely positive and I complied with the Groom's request to "not take that (the pistol) in there." I told her my date's name and she could not find her, and she told me to look around the pews and see if I she could be found. Hindsight says, they had already decided they did not want me there, it sounds like they just wanted to get upset also at whomever invited me. Perhaps I should have made up some excuse like "must be a different church," my mistake. Anyway, I sat down with my date, a lady I have been on about six dates and she seemed friendly, she introduced me to her friends and everything seemed ok. Some more time passed and someone pulled my date aside and spoke with her a bit. She asked me if I was carrying a gun, and I said no because it was now in the vehicle. She asked me if I carried one earlier and I said, "my mistake." She got upset with me for making a scene in front of her friends who just happened to be business associates. I told her I did not create a scene, it seems that people overreacted. Anyway, they called me aside and asked me to leave upon which I was greeted outside with five police officers. The female officer frisked me somewhat haphazardly, and another officer took my magazine and flashlight. They looked at my license; one of them remembered me from the vehicle wreck two years ago. They also looked at my pistol permit. I explained to them that I felt that it was important to carry considering Aurora and Newtown. I was asked to leave the premises completely, and was escorted away by three of the officers. The police officers were sympathetic, and I am sure they could have made a lot bigger mess for me because after all it was my mistake, I should have been more careful to conceal the P7. As for the date, even though she is quite a bit pro-gun, and I know she knows that I carry because I left the pistol in the car and went into her house with a holster, light and mag pouch, I doubt she will talk to me again. After all, what is she going to say to her friends? None of those people know me. I did not think it would have been THAT big of a deal for someone carrying at a wedding especially after all the recent positive experiences I have had with open carry in stores and public settings. For years I hear people talk about carrying a handgun everywhere they go. So, for a brief time I tried this without being OCD about concealment. Of all the places I visited, most of the time, without hardly even trying there was not an issue with concealment, nor an issue even with open carry. I am guessing the numbers of people who really try to carry a handgun mostly everywhere are few. A pivotal part of the anti-gun strategy is careful, calculated social conditioning that tells the population that guns are bad, and the owners are crazy. Unfortunately my concealment mistake at a wedding did not help. All most people want is the feeling of security at any cost of freedom, and their views are shaped, in large by the media and television in general. We live in a country that has a high percentage of firearms, yet the only firearms the public EVER observes are in movies, gang shootings, or media drama. The biased, controversial, portrayal of firearms in the USA is a calculated move to create an emotional argument demonizing gun owners encouraging ignorance and directing interest away from sports shooting. Tactically there is absolutely no advantage to open carry. Politically, in light of all the mis-information, if every gun owner started open carry the public would have to get used to this idea. The thought that, maybe, just maybe, this would create a wave and interest in awareness in firearms that could outshine the anti's efforts to disarm. Last edited by Holartic; March 19, 2013 at 10:17 AM.

March 16, 2013, 09:33 PM	#2
olddav Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2008 Location: Lower Alabama Posts: 727	oops! It seems they over reacted a bit. I think I might have talked to you a bit, if you appead OK then on with the show. Although it is their wedding. __________________ Never beat your head against the wall with out a helmet

March 16, 2013, 09:40 PM	#4
MTSCMike Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2011 Location: Middle TN Posts: 164	Just part of the price you pay when "concealed" is not maintained. As a permit holder dedicated to concealed carry you just have to be more diligent about maintaining that concealment, especially in today's climate with respect to guns in general. Also, I believe you can't just be a "one trick pony" with CCW. Different modes of carry or even weapon depending on the occasion and wardrobe required. My rig changes depending on the season and the acceptable attire for a given location or event. At least you didn't insist on staying after being asked to leave. That can get you a criminal trespass citation and could result in the loss of CCW permit depending on your State laws. All in all...lesson learned without much negative impact. __________________ IDPA Member A00640 Founding Charter Member - Middle Tennessee Shooter's Club

March 16, 2013, 09:44 PM	#5
Joe_Pike Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2010 Posts: 1,581	Five cops!?! That seems like overkill to me. Why didn't someone just ask you to leave if they were upset? I would have gladly left if someone that I was with wouldn't even support me for something like that. __________________ Stay Groovy

March 16, 2013, 09:46 PM	#6
bigkrackers Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2011 Location: Minnesota Posts: 117	CCW to a Wedding, escorted out by five poice officers You took a gun to a private event, presumably at a privately owned location, you obviously didn't know that either you couldn't bring a gun into the establishment or the feelings of the bride/groom on the subject. Worse,You failed to conceal the gun and brought attention to yourself and what happened happened. Chalk it up to a learning moment. Lucky you weren't in a state where failing to conceal your weapon is itself a crime.

March 16, 2013, 09:39 PM	#3
tynman Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Location: NJ Posts: 361	Well if she really likes you it shouldnt matter what her work friends think.. You didnt lie so she shouldnt care about anything else. You didnt cause a scene you left when you were asked... I dont see a problem.. If she dont call Im sure youll find someone else...

March 16, 2013, 09:47 PM	#7
Holartic Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Posts: 28	The Groom did not ask me to leave, he just said "I don't think they will let you carry that in there." They wanted to now who I knew at the wedding, and since the person I know was not someone they knew then it got a bit confusing. I think it took them a minute to decide if they needed to call the police, because in this area if you call he police they come in five minutes. That must have been at least two squad cars probably three.

March 16, 2013, 09:49 PM	#8
Jayster Member Join Date: January 7, 2013 Posts: 74	Bad deal. Bummer day. To me they over reacted. But seems they might have had a reason too since they didn't know who you knew, maybe...

March 16, 2013, 09:52 PM	#9
MTSCMike Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2011 Location: Middle TN Posts: 164	A pretty typical response for the Police since all they likely knew was a call came in for "man with a gun at a wedding". Heck, these days you could have gotten the local SWAT team! __________________ IDPA Member A00640 Founding Charter Member - Middle Tennessee Shooter's Club

March 16, 2013, 10:11 PM	#10
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Just be glad you weren't in the Las Vegas Metro area. They shoot permit holders for less than that, then cuff you and watch you bleed-out. And it's ALWAYS justified. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

March 16, 2013, 10:46 PM	#11
rlc323 Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2013 Location: Forgottonia, Il Posts: 217	If your date won't take your side in this then good riddance to her. You made a mistake, no harm, except her embarrasment. If she did not load up and leave with you, then she won't likely have your back any other time in the future.

March 17, 2013, 06:01 AM	#12
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	Concealed is concealed. You made a mistake but did exactly as you were asked to do by the wedding party and police. The police seems like a bit of over kill it is what it is. As far as the date, she likely won't support you now or in the future so at least you found out now. Thanks for sharing the story. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

March 17, 2013, 06:41 AM	#13
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	You made a mistake by not having your gun completely concealed and you learned a lesson from it. As far as your date, she chose her friends or associates over you, that is in it self enough for me not to date her again. If I was you I wouldn't call her and if she calls you just be polite and explain how she made you feel when she chose the others over you. A relationship where you are already second fiddle is not a good relationship.

March 17, 2013, 07:50 AM	#14
Holartic Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Posts: 28	More precisely what happened is that, even though I pulled down on the jacket after getting out of the vehicle I did not visibly check to see if it was riding up over the holster. I thought I pulled down on the jacket once more in the building, but maybe I did not. The moral of the story here is not to just pull down on your suit jacket, but visibly check to see if everything is right.

March 17, 2013, 08:02 AM	#15
dos0711 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2012 Location: Northeast, Fl Posts: 254	She showed her colors. Better to found out now then down the road when you're more involved. You handled it well.

March 17, 2013, 08:11 AM	#16
Pilot Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2000 Posts: 4,193	You need deeper concealment for that kind of dress and event. __________________ Pilot

March 17, 2013, 09:11 AM	#17
silvrjeepr Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2009 Posts: 213	CCW to a Wedding, escorted out by five poice officers You guys get over yourself. I wouldn't turn my back on my friends for someone I've dated 5 it six times, and neither would you. OP chalk it up to stuff happens and learn from it. Cut the girl some slack and whatever happens happens.

March 17, 2013, 09:25 AM	#18
oldgunsmith Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2013 Posts: 278	A good weapon retention course includes methods of carrying and other habits that help to avoid situations like that, not to mention what to do if someone tries to take it (anyone who thinks a gun can't be taken away from them isn't dealing with reality). The least likely to be taken is the one they don't know you have. Not rocket science. Anyone who carries without a good retention course knows not what he does.

March 17, 2013, 09:32 AM	#19
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Seems like over reactions all around but the strangest part of the whole thing, to me, is going to a wedding where neither of you even know the bride OR groom. I've never heard of such a thing.

March 17, 2013, 09:36 AM	#20
Holartic Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Posts: 28	My date was friends with the mom of the bride. The mom of the bride is her business associate. The reason the jacket incident happened, is really just because I was in a hurry which had my attention focused elsewhere. Also, making a habit of open carry over the last three months set a precedent for less attention on the nuances of concealment. Last edited by Holartic; March 19, 2013 at 06:35 PM.

March 17, 2013, 09:58 AM	#21
adamc Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2013 Location: Stalingrad Connecticut Posts: 216	I thought churches ,etc. Were off limits for cc. I would not feel good about carrying at a wedding or something similar just my 2¢ __________________ ** NRA Life Member *** Connecticut was the Cradle of the Gun Industry, NOW it is just a Pine Box, Courtesy of our Governor "Chairman MAO Malloy"

March 17, 2013, 10:10 AM	#22
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Places of worship being off limits vary by state. One needs to know the local law. The incident was a screw up all around. Also, relationship advice isn't our mission. 5 cops - did they over react? There have been church rampages. So when a dispatcher gets a call - should they err on the side of more? Best answer - check yourself. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

March 17, 2013, 10:13 AM	#23
kentuckycountryboy Member Join Date: September 24, 2012 Posts: 15	Jacket rode up over holster at a Wedding, escorted out by five police officers Adamc, the church thing varies by state. To me, any large event is when you need to carry anymore, especially if emotions of other people can get involved. A church service is a great target for a shooter, as is a wedding. The wedding also runs the risk of a jealous ex showing up and trying to start trouble. I'd feel no different carrying at a wedding than while going to the store.

March 17, 2013, 10:49 AM	#25
Holartic Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Posts: 28	Yes, the police gave back the magazine and the flashlight. They never saw the P7 because it was in the vehicle. The police did not arrest me, or file any charges. I am really lucky everything worked out as well as it did. I am really sorry I embarrassed my date. I sincerely hope nothing else bad comes of this. I dislike all types of drama. This experience, for me is unique. I opened carry in quite a few places in the last two months and occasionally someone would ask a question but otherwise everything was ok. The only reason I would open carry is just to get the public used to seeing firearms, but it seems to be an uphill battle and tactically there is no advantage to open carry. Regardless, the wedding was supposed to be concealed carry. Again, the moral is to do a visual check not just "pull down on jacket."